In this area they are currently bringing right around $700.00. This aint rifle country but they show up now and then. Hard to find one in the shape you want...good blue, good wood, no screws turned and mangled, etc. They took quite a jump when Winchester went under this last time. I guess if you cant get one new then the old ones have to go up. There is a little girl at work that has her dad's unfired 94. He was killed in a motorcycle accident and she got his guns. She sold me all but his 94 and an 8" barreled Python. I told her to let me know if she decided to ever sell the Winchester. It is absolutely primo unfired perfect as new dated to 1957. 94's are a very hard to find unfired gun. Good luck in your search.
Winchester Model 94 pre-64's *UPDATED w/pics*
- Thread starter boykinlp
- Start date
wraco
Member
Decent pre-64, post war 94's are usually easier to obtain than a decent pre-war 1894. The early 1894's are quite a bit higher priced with octagon barrels, deluxe, T/D and cal. of 38-55, 32-40. 25-35 enjoying a premium. The early rifles and SRC are the ones I show more interest as the workmanship and quality is evident. The carbines made during WWII share the pre-war qualities and can be found for just a tad more than the later post war pre-64 ones. Prices will vary depending on area, of course, but you should be able to find a decent pre-64, post war carbine for around $450 to $600. The early 1894 rifles and SRC, in decent shape with very good bores and very good wood will fetch upwards of a $1000 to $1500 and higher for T/D, deluxe models, rarer calibers and barrel (round or oct). Lately I've added a 38-55, octagon barrel and a 32-40 R/B. Both were good buys and in very good condition.
Rod
Rod
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OP
How did Winchester lose years of records? Does the longer wood in front of the barrel band equate to more value or a rarer gun?
I am seeing a few guns in .32 WS for sale. Is this a caliber that is readily available? Do the bullets cost an "arm and a leg" or are they reasonable? Thanks.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
The 32 is somewhat of a mystery why it was made. In the early part of its history its thought it was made for reloaders to shoot black powder in if they couldnt find smokeless. I think it has a different rifleing twist. The smokeless commercial rounds and the 30-30s are said to be about identical in power. Why they even made it in the 1930s to 50s era I suspect was for old timers that was born when they were still popular and demanded it. Yes its still available, I dont know how available or how much as its a dieing breed on its way out. I dont know when the last ones were made, I suspect in the mid-late 50s. My dad had a winchester model 64 in one that was built about 1950.
Here are two 30-30s I own. The first I bought new in about 1956 and added the pad for LOP and the peep when I bought it. My longest shot was when I killed a nice buck with it at about 220 yards in bad weather, a wet snow storm. The other is a safe queen, a 64 model in 30-30 made in 1952. I bought it used in the 1970s for $200s and dont think it had been fired! I might have put a box through it.
Here are two 30-30s I own. The first I bought new in about 1956 and added the pad for LOP and the peep when I bought it. My longest shot was when I killed a nice buck with it at about 220 yards in bad weather, a wet snow storm. The other is a safe queen, a 64 model in 30-30 made in 1952. I bought it used in the 1970s for $200s and dont think it had been fired! I might have put a box through it.
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My understanding is that they were lost to a fire. I believe the missing records are for the years 1943 -1948. That's what I've read, but don't recall the source...
And yes, the long-wood/flat barrel band 94s indicate WWII era guns, are more scarce and accordingly more valuable... I'll try to take a picture and post tomorrow.
BTY, Merrill, I absolutely love that 64, it's a beauty!
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'94's in 32 Special seem to be gaining in value/price lately. Not long ago they went begging for a buyer when the same version was available to the used gun buyer in 30-30.
I think Winchester brought it out as a new smokeless round to capture some attention at the time (early 1900's) as something new and not just a smokeless load for an older BP round like the 32-40.
It does what the 30-30 can do and each has their audience. Jacketed bullet choices are few for the 32sp but the factory 170gr does what the caliber was intended for.
The question is asked of the 30 Remington and the 32 Remington. They too came out about the same time and do about the same thing.
The 32 Winchester Special seems to have been popular in New England and Canada from what I've seen. But that's just a personal observation.
I have a 1913 mfg '94 deluxe TD oct bbl in 32Special that I restocked. I have yet to finish & checker the wood but have already enjoyed shooting it this summer.
I even fired a handful of misc 30-30 rds thru it to get a few more pieces of brass to reload. Not too bad at 25yrds. In a pinch, the combo would certainly take a deer.
That 'smokeless sight' does take a little getting used to though.
I think Winchester brought it out as a new smokeless round to capture some attention at the time (early 1900's) as something new and not just a smokeless load for an older BP round like the 32-40.
It does what the 30-30 can do and each has their audience. Jacketed bullet choices are few for the 32sp but the factory 170gr does what the caliber was intended for.
The question is asked of the 30 Remington and the 32 Remington. They too came out about the same time and do about the same thing.
The 32 Winchester Special seems to have been popular in New England and Canada from what I've seen. But that's just a personal observation.
I have a 1913 mfg '94 deluxe TD oct bbl in 32Special that I restocked. I have yet to finish & checker the wood but have already enjoyed shooting it this summer.
I even fired a handful of misc 30-30 rds thru it to get a few more pieces of brass to reload. Not too bad at 25yrds. In a pinch, the combo would certainly take a deer.
That 'smokeless sight' does take a little getting used to though.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I found this explaination somewhere else.
. Originally Smokeless was unavailable to reloaders. Later, during the depression, you could get a ¼ keg (6 ½ lb.) of black powder for less than the cost of 1 canister (8 oz.) of smokeless. Not to mention the cost of jacketed bullets as opposed to casting your own. The 1 in 16 twist rate of the 32 was much better for cast bullets than the 1 in 12 used in the 30-30.
These things contributed to keep the 32 Win. popular among shooters and on Winchester’s production list, long after it had been declared obsolete and dead by the gun writers. Whenever I read articles badmouthing the 32 Win. I realize that the author neither understands that outdoorsmen then understood the care and feeding of black powder cartridge guns, nor grasp the concept of economizing in hard times. Like Optimist said, “we may all be back to black before the party's over.
. Originally Smokeless was unavailable to reloaders. Later, during the depression, you could get a ¼ keg (6 ½ lb.) of black powder for less than the cost of 1 canister (8 oz.) of smokeless. Not to mention the cost of jacketed bullets as opposed to casting your own. The 1 in 16 twist rate of the 32 was much better for cast bullets than the 1 in 12 used in the 30-30.
These things contributed to keep the 32 Win. popular among shooters and on Winchester’s production list, long after it had been declared obsolete and dead by the gun writers. Whenever I read articles badmouthing the 32 Win. I realize that the author neither understands that outdoorsmen then understood the care and feeding of black powder cartridge guns, nor grasp the concept of economizing in hard times. Like Optimist said, “we may all be back to black before the party's over.
wraco
Member
When Winchester brought out the 32 Winchester Special,quite a few ol'boys were still shooting black powder. Winchester wanted to fill their need and give them a caliber that could keep up with the 30WCF but shoot both smokeless and the older black powder. The 30 WCF has a faster rifling twist (1-12 if I recall correctly) and does not lend itself to black powder as it's too fast a twist and fouls up the barrel. The 32 WS has a slower rifling twist (1-16 or 1-14 kinda forgot) and works with black powder and still spins the bullet fast enough for smokeless powder. I remember the old timers telling me a shot-out 30-30 barrel will still give good enough accuracy for hunting, but a shot-out 32 WS does not because of the slower twist.
The 32 WS fell out of favor for 2 or 3 decades but has regained interest and respect and selling prices have come back in line with the 30-30. Some folks have debated back and forth for years on which one of the two, 32WS or 30 WCF, is the better round but at the end of the day they're both about equal.
Rod
The 32 WS fell out of favor for 2 or 3 decades but has regained interest and respect and selling prices have come back in line with the 30-30. Some folks have debated back and forth for years on which one of the two, 32WS or 30 WCF, is the better round but at the end of the day they're both about equal.
Rod
I've heard explanations of why Winchester brought out the 32Sp,,wanting to give shooters a cartridge equaly efficient with smokeless & BP,,the slower rifling twist = less fouling w/BP loads, etc.
I still think it was a smokeless cartridge market sell all the way.
They already had the 32-40wcf in the '94 line. It used a near identicle bullet @ 165gr and the same rifling twist of the 32Special @ 1-16.
The 32-40 was a BP cartridge originally and was also then loaded with smokeless loads at the same time.
Though slightly less powerfull than the 32Special, it could and still can do the job.
The 32sp, in my opinion was brought out and sold as a smokeless round just as the 30-30 & 25-35 had been before it.
All 3 were intro'd as new high vel, smokeless hunting rounds.
The original chamberings of 38-55 and 32-40 would have to satisfy those that wanted to shoot BP loads yet. The ammo companies accomodated them by producing those 2 in both smokeless and BP for a few years.
The debate about which is better in the deer woods will probably never end. Kind of the old 38 vs 9mm. But who cares,,their both great calibers. Some pretty nice old Marlins around in those too!
Just my .02
I still think it was a smokeless cartridge market sell all the way.
They already had the 32-40wcf in the '94 line. It used a near identicle bullet @ 165gr and the same rifling twist of the 32Special @ 1-16.
The 32-40 was a BP cartridge originally and was also then loaded with smokeless loads at the same time.
Though slightly less powerfull than the 32Special, it could and still can do the job.
The 32sp, in my opinion was brought out and sold as a smokeless round just as the 30-30 & 25-35 had been before it.
All 3 were intro'd as new high vel, smokeless hunting rounds.
The original chamberings of 38-55 and 32-40 would have to satisfy those that wanted to shoot BP loads yet. The ammo companies accomodated them by producing those 2 in both smokeless and BP for a few years.
The debate about which is better in the deer woods will probably never end. Kind of the old 38 vs 9mm. But who cares,,their both great calibers. Some pretty nice old Marlins around in those too!
Just my .02
OP
feralmerril - thanks for showing us your guns, I really like them. Also it sounds like you are quite a good shot.
dmar - looking forward to seeing your pics.
Also, thanks to all you folks for teaching me more about the .32 WS caliber. I will add it to the .30/30 caliber search.
I also have another question. When looking at pics of some guns, I see some with information stamped on the tang and some with a blank tang. In what year was this change made? Thanks.
dmar - looking forward to seeing your pics.
Also, thanks to all you folks for teaching me more about the .32 WS caliber. I will add it to the .30/30 caliber search.
I also have another question. When looking at pics of some guns, I see some with information stamped on the tang and some with a blank tang. In what year was this change made? Thanks.
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feralmerril
Absent Comrade
boykinlp; thanks. While I do have the intrest and a lot of general gun knowledge, I never considered myself a great shot. Especialy now days. I am a shakey old man. My dad and grand dad shook a lot. It`s a family thing, understand grandma had to shave grandpa as he shook so bad! Still I never failed a requal in 35 years.
OP
OP
Well, I am posting to my own thread again with an update. I have recently purchased a Winchester model 94 pre-64 in .32 WS. It is a 1948 vintage. I think that it is in pretty good shape. It has the long wood forearm, flat barrel band and checkered steel buttplate. It also has Winchester proof marks behind the sights on the barrel and receiver. The bore is bright and shiney. From looking at the front sight, it may have had a hooded front, but it doesn't now. I have a hard time taking pictures of long guns (especially when it comes to getting the whole gun in the pic), but here are A LOT of pics. (sorry)
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OP
On my "new to me" Model 94, I would like to increase the length of pull some. But I don't want to do anything permanent to hurt the guns value. I know there are some temporary recoil pads for sale that probably solve my problem. Anybody tried these and which ones would you suggest or stay away from? Thanks.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Yes. I have two that are leather and just lace up on two 92 clones. I belive I bought them here:
Buffalo Arms - Main Page
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Search.aspx?TERM=leather recoil pads
Buffalo Arms - Main Page
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Search.aspx?TERM=leather recoil pads
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OP
feralmerril,
That is just what I am looking for. I like the lace up much better than the velcro models. To me, it has a that vintage look, isn't permanent, and shouldn't mar the stock in any way. I knew I had seen some pictures on this forum of them (probably yours). I am going to look at the Buffalo Arms ones , as well as, some made by a company called Kick-Killer. They are probably all the same. Thanks again.
That is just what I am looking for. I like the lace up much better than the velcro models. To me, it has a that vintage look, isn't permanent, and shouldn't mar the stock in any way. I knew I had seen some pictures on this forum of them (probably yours). I am going to look at the Buffalo Arms ones , as well as, some made by a company called Kick-Killer. They are probably all the same. Thanks again.
That's a nice looking rifle.
I realize you posted this a couple weeks ago, but I've been doing a lot of web searches recently and found this info about tang markings (pages 122 and 123 if the link goes to the first page).
Winchester Model 94: A Century of ... - Robert C. Renneberg - Google Books
I read on another forum (can't remember which one) that the tang markings stopped around s/n 1,000,000
Just tonight I put a .32 WS on hold till tomorrow (didn't have the cash with me tonight). s/n 406,xxx.
I realize you posted this a couple weeks ago, but I've been doing a lot of web searches recently and found this info about tang markings (pages 122 and 123 if the link goes to the first page).
Winchester Model 94: A Century of ... - Robert C. Renneberg - Google Books
I read on another forum (can't remember which one) that the tang markings stopped around s/n 1,000,000
Just tonight I put a .32 WS on hold till tomorrow (didn't have the cash with me tonight). s/n 406,xxx.
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