A FRUSTRATING EVENING AT THE KNIFE SHARPENING BENCH

[chief38]

I was down the street today at my best friend's house (best friends for 67 years so far) and he knows I am a fanatic about having sharp knives. He asked me if I would sharpen his Paula Dean 3 knife set and I said of course. So I took them home and ate dinner. After dinner I went into my workshop and after 5 minutes of assessing this knife set, I realized they are way too thick at the edge to be sharpened! I had to re-profile them on a belt grinder before I even started using stones. I did the basic re-profiling by eye and then used a 100 grit XX diamond stone to start a new edge profile. Then I went thought the stones (5 grits) to get a descent edge on them. They are made of terrible Chinese stainless that was very hard to sharpen and I have no idea how long they will hold an edge. If I had to guess, I'd say not very long! Because the damned blades are so thick, I used a 20º angle on each side so at least they should hold up for a while. Had I used a 15º angle I was afraid the cheap Chinese stainless steel would chip out and be useless in short order.

I never knew Paula Dean (a tv cook) sold knives. After sharpening them I looked online and saw they are not very expensive - about $32 for the 3 knife set. All I will say is that anyone interested in a descent set of kitchen knives - stay far away from these! I read the reviews on them and many said they were dull right out of the box.

For the first 20 years we were married, my wife and I had cheap sets of knives and a few hand me downs that weren't much better. I was always frustrated that they never held an edge for very long. About 25 years ago I bit the bullet and spent a lot of money on a 23 piece Wusthof Classic block set. That set is still in my kitchen performing perfectly and they will all shave the hair off my arm. I NEVER let them get that dull so to put back a razor edge only takes me 2 minutes. When people come to my house for dinner, they KNOW to handle my knives with caution. When I carve a Thanksgiving Turkey at someone else's house I normally either bring my own knife or sharpen theirs before the Turkey is done. To me dull knives are very frustrating and when in other peoples houses I am amazed that many of their knives are only good for buttering bread. Just another reason I always have my razor sharp Spyderco Delica in my pocket all the time -lol.

[Exaviator]

I am with you Chief, can't stand a blunt knife, and sharpen my kitchen knives every 1-2 weeks using a Lansky Controlled Angle Sharpening System, which works well for me. You are more likely to get a cut from a blunt knife, than a sharp one...

[6518John]

Chief—I have had this impossible task several times myself. Always someone asking a favor. I have learned to immediately tell them—I can’t make a silk purse out of sow’s ear. For the city slickers who have no idea what a sow is—(bacon comes from the grocery store)—I tell them garbage in, garbage out.

Buck, Benchmade, Tops and White River all make excellent kitchen knife sets in the good ol’ USA. Just get ready to spend some money.

[chief38]

Originally Posted by 6518John

Chief—I have had this impossible task several times myself. Always someone asking a favor. I have learned to immediately tell them—I can’t make a silk purse out of sow’s ear. For the city slickers who have no idea what a sow is—(bacon comes from the grocery store)—I tell them garbage in, garbage out.

Buck, Benchmade, Tops and White River all make excellent kitchen knife sets in the good ol’ USA. Just get ready to spend some money.

I agree - most have no idea what good knives are and what makes them good. And for the ones that do know the difference, they don't know how to properly sharpen them, steel them or care for them! Most people I know use a $15 supermarket bought sharpener on them - which actually ruins the knives and wears them prematurely because of the amount of steel being removed.

The Wusthof Classic line (the ones I own) are excellent. I am sure there are also better ones out there, but I will say that after 25 years of owning them, I'd buy them again. I have used Benchmade and Randal made knives at friends houses and you are correct - they are excellent!! I have not had the pleasure of using or even seeing the Tops or White River yet. Some guys (like us) take this stuff seriously while others scoff and don't get it!

[chief38]

BTW, I own a KME knife sharpening system, a Spyderco Triangle knife sharpener and a basic Lansky system as well. On my own knives ( and others that still have the proper edge symmetry) I use Dan's Arkansas Stones in the old wooden boxes and sharpen them by hand - bought those stones many many years ago. BTW, I sent them back to Dan's about 3 years ago to have them re-flattened. With all the use they get, after many years they started getting a belly. I forget wha they charged me but it was pretty reasonable and they did a great job! Those are easy to use (after a lengthy learning curve), takes only a few minutes to run through the grits and work exceptionally well. Again, there is a learning curve that I had to go through many years ago. Glad I stuck that out until I got it!

When I have to completely re-profile a knife blade (like this evening) I usually will go to the KME system - it holds the knife at the precise angle I set it for throughout all the grits. When I need to just touch up a knife in short order, the Spyderco Triangle system works very well but would not be good in bringing a knife back from he dead. The Spyderco system uses ceramic stones and while they are great, it would take too long to do a re-profile.

I rarely use a belt sander on knives - don't really like to do that but sometimes (like tonight) I really had no practical choice. I wasn't gonna sit there for hours re-profiling by hand. After the belt sander the rest was by hand.

[s&wchad]

Two words of advice when it comes to kitchen knives...
Estate sales!

My first and last set bought at retail were Chicago Cutlery. That was about 35 years ago and they set me back almost $100. They were OK and got us through for years, but the internet and the popularity of online estate sale listing has really upped my game!

I attend a lot of local sales and always check the kitchen for goodies. I've literally bought hundreds of knives for pennies on the dollar. I kept more than a few, sold some and gave some away.

I gave my niece a set of Wusthof Classics as a wedding gift. I told her how to care for them and to be careful, but she didn't listen. She put the chef knife in a tub of soapy water when she was doing dishes and ended up at the hospital getting stitched up.

I've given some to my brothers and our neighbors. They've had us over for dinner and I noticed they had cheap knives that wouldn't cut well. Rather than waste my time sharpening, I gave them some good knives.

These are my keepers (for now). Most are Wusthof Classics, but I prefer their Icon Series because of the longer handles. I also have a number of Cutco knives and some older carbon steel knives, but they don't get used much. I like Wusthof better than Cutco and usually assemble sets of Cutco and sell them. That's more than paid for all the knives I kept.







Basement overflow!



You'll also occasionally find sharpening implements!

[jimmyj]

If I disappear and a body is found with a sharp knife in the clothing, be assured that the body is not Jimmy. I have never been known to have a sharp knife. Sharping a knife is not a skill of mine.

[Richard Simmons]

In 40+ years of marriage my wife and I have had a few sets of knives from carbon steel to ceramic. None were very expensive and all served adequately however the set we’ve used the longest and still use daily is the Buck Empress Trio in 440C.

It’s been years since Buck made them but you can still find the three knife set on the secondary market. All three are slicers not choppers so we do have a Cutco chefs knife to serve that purpose but the Empress Trio can handle everything else from paring to breaking down primal cuts. Last knife set I’ll ever buy.

[walter o]

I am still using the cutco set me bought 56 years ago when we got married .A oil stone by hand is all that i use on them
A side note i use a set of cheap Harbor Freight diamond plates to true up my stones to keep the profile even rhe small stones to work on gun parts

[growr]

Sure enjoy my Kershaw kitchen Knife set that were made in KAI Japan......they sharpen easily and hold an edge for a long time.

Randy

[ameridaddy]

Originally Posted by chief38

... To me dull knives are very frustrating and when in other peoples houses I am amazed that many of their knives are only good for buttering bread.

Just another reason I always have my razor sharp Spyderco Delica in my pocket all the time -lol.

Amen to loathing dull knives, brother!
And a thumbs up for Spyderco!
My Spyderco Native is the best edge holding knife I've ever owned. And it more than shaves hair - I can hold a piece of printer paper aloft by just the corner and slice it in two with my Spyderco.

[chief38]

Up until I received my Spyderco Delica K390 steel blade knife as a Christmas gift I never really though much of the brand. After a week or so carrying it, my opinion changed 180º! They are elegantly simple, functional and like you said, I can shave with it. I also like the light weight and the one handed deployment. For someone who carried a traditional folding Stag handled or similar folding pocket knife all those prior years, it was a complete epiphany for me.

[marinevet]

Wicked Edge..........the best knife sharpener I have ever used, and I have used a bunch of them...........

Wicked Edge Precision Knife Sharpeners

[StrawHat]

I sharpen things for a living. My predominant system is the DMT diamond plates. I back them up with a slow speed belt sander. I have also used foot powered wheels. They all work, it just depends on what you need to accomplish. I also have used Tormek, Wicked Edge, and every other system on the market. Most are junk, aimed at separating you from your money. After I test them, I sell them. Usually there is someone willing to buy them.

With the DMT plates, if I spend more than a couple minutes on an edge, I transition to the Kalamazoo slow speed belt sander, establish an edge with 180 grit, switch to 220, then back to finish on the DMT. AND, get paid to do it!

Kevin

[Bekeart]

My fifty year old Henckels knives do NOT need metal removed.

Just an occasional careful repositioning.

Power "knife sharpeners" grind away, like a cheap floozy, and end up selling more knives.

Bekeart

[chief38]

My friend picked up his sharpened knives yesterday evening and he was so pleased with them, he rode home on his bike and brought me 8 more - OH JOY! These 8 are steak knives that a bar of butter would laugh at!

I said to him...... you are a cheap %#% (# # *^#*$ and told him he should be embarrassed to even own these! Believe me, he can easily afford to buy a decent set of knives. The puzzling part of this whole equation is that he is an amateur Chief - and a damned good one! I said if anyone in our group of friends here should have great Chef's knives, it SHOULD be you! I think I might have planted a seed in his head - we'll see.......

[chief38]

Originally Posted by s&wchad

Two words of advice when it comes to kitchen knives...
Estate sales!

My first and last set bought at retail were Chicago Cutlery. That was about 35 years ago and they set me back almost $100. They were OK and got us through for years, but the internet and the popularity of online estate sale listing has really upped my game!

I attend a lot of local sales and always check the kitchen for goodies. I've literally bought hundreds of knives for pennies on the dollar. I kept more than a few, sold some and gave some away.

I gave my niece a set of Wusthof Classics as a wedding gift. I told her how to care for them and to be careful, but she didn't listen. She put the chef knife in a tub of soapy water when she was doing dishes and ended up at the hospital getting stitched up.

I've given some to my brothers and our neighbors. They've had us over for dinner and I noticed they had cheap knives that wouldn't cut well. Rather than waste my time sharpening, I gave them some good knives.

These are my keepers (for now). Most are Wusthof Classics, but I prefer their Icon Series because of the longer handles. I also have a number of Cutco knives and some older carbon steel knives, but they don't get used much. I like Wusthof better than Cutco and usually assemble sets of Cutco and sell them. That's more than paid for all the knives I kept.







Basement overflow!



You'll also occasionally find sharpening implements!

I am impressed!!! NICE!! Mine are Wusthof Classic's as well and they are a hell of a set! There may be better ones out there, but for a whole lot more money. If memory serves, I think my 23 piece block set ran around $800 or so back 26 years ago. Yes, that seems like a lot for knives, but do the math ..... that comes to an average of $35/knife and they "throw in the block", LOL!! They still are in perfect condition and when we are long gone, they will still be serving my kids well!

Note: The less expensive stamped out lower end Wusthof sets are OK, but IMHO are just not the same as these dropped forged ones. The Heinkel brand sets at the higher end are OK as well, but the lower priced ones - nah. BTW..... I HATE serrated knives - they are only useful for cutting bread IMO. Don't like serrated pocket knives either! And YES..... I am opinionated - but I do admit it!

[steelslaver]

I love good diamond stones. I also use a 2x72 belt grinder with a VFD that enables me to turn the belt speed down to a crawl. A blade with a good profile I will start out at 4-600 grit, go to 1200, then a leather belt with rouge.

In the kitchen my biggest problem is the wife and girls cut stuff on ceramic and metal plates. But, hey one of the first times I took the girls fishing they used my fillet knife against concrete. Boy did that get them a lecture.

[BKLooney]

I have been stoning razor edges on blades for about 50 years now. Used basic stones up until about 1990 when I finally went to using the Lansky kits. I would sharpen so many for friends and family that I was wearing out the diamond stones on a regular basis.

About 8 years or so ago I finally bit the bullet as they say and bought a Real Sharp machine, this made my life so much simpler!

If it's a blade I have sharpened before, and quality steel, it only takes me a few minutes to achieve a blade that one can actually shave with.

Usually only have to use 400/600/800 grit belts and then polish with the felt belt with fine compound.

I always warn people to be careful as the ones that need stiches shortly after are quite a few.

[Llance]

As a truckdriver I often encountered sharpening stands at truck stops. I never used their services as I kept a stone in my truck for those times my knife needed sharpening. Not often at all. The easiest way I know of to tell if a knife is sharp is to attempt to cut plastic. If your knife is not sharp it will not cut plastic.

One of the locations where I made deliveries was to a grocery warehouse and I was delivering pet food. If your knife was sharp all that was required of you was to cut the plastic holding the two pallets together. Mind they were stacked one atop the other.

With a sharp knife you cut the plastic holding the upper pallet of petfood to the lower. If your knife was not sharp you either had to rent a razer knife from the warehouse manager, or he would rent you a stone to sharpen your blade. Either way your load was not unloaded until you had a sharp blade to cut the plastic.

My first trip to that location the warehouseman told me what was required and then he said a bit disdainfully, "you can borrow (rent) my razer knife or my stone but either way I'm not unloading your trailer until you have cut the plastic." I walked over to the first stack of food and walked around the stack with my knife against the pallet and said to him: Do you mean like that. His grin was about half a mile wide as he replied "Yeah, just like that." After my trailer was unloaded, we talked about all the truckers who show up with dull knives. He kept a jar in his desk with the money he got from the drivers and would take his crew out for pizza and beer at the end of every month. It only cost a dollar to rent his equipment, but it didn't matter to me, I wasn't going to pay anyone to sharpen my knives.

[chief38]

Don't know wether it's my OCD or my years of being a Boy Scout, but I am always prepared. I can't remember there ever being a time that I did not have a very sharp knife in my pocket - and that is meant for cutting tasks, not for SD. Our generation was usually taught a pocket knife is and EDC tool and I have had one in my pocket since I was 7 or 8. That said, many who do carry one could not cut squat with it because they are not much sharper than a banana.

Not too long ago I spent two months living at a friends house because our new home had not been completed and we had to move out of our older home. One night I needed a sharp knife in my friends home (where we stayed) and he had not one single knife with an edge! I kid you not, I actually used an extra paver from his driveway to sharpen one of his knives. It wasn't exactly razor sharp, but it was sharp enough to cut up he steaks we BBQ'd. Hey, ya do what you gotta do!

[hardluk1]

I have to smile a bit after reading this tread . We have daughter that's a sous-chef now at a better restaurant in the area . After working there a while the chef let her use an older set of his Sora knives and she bragged about how nice they were ? So mom hinted around as to the blades she used at work and I bought her 4- Shun Sora knifes for her birthday . She loves them still after several years of use at work and at home .

We still use mainly some Old Hickory knifes my MOM gave us that were her's dating from the early 1940's , I think we have 7 o0r 8 of these knifes 14"er down to a couple 6" knifes. We got them some 44 years ago when we got married along with a new zwilling 12" steel and still use them the most often . There old enough to be all 1095 steel . We have a nice set of water stones and a small combo bench when needed too . NC does not allow straight blades concealed so I bought me a ZT-0350 10 or 12 years ago for carry .

[A10]

I mostly use a ceramic rod for my kitchen stuff. If they get too dull (i.e., my wife has been using them) I have a worksharp Ken Onion with the blade grinder attachment I'll use. Low and slow is the name of the game, and if they're not damaged too badly it doesn't take long. A bunch of folks I know just strop when the edge gets a little dull.

[rockquarry]

I've found very few people that keep kitchen knives sharp. My late mother-in-law not only had very dull knives, most had the points broken off because they were used as a screwdriver. I referred to them as "safety" knives; you'd never cut or puncture yourself with one but you might get a mild bruise.

[NYlakesider]

Originally Posted by rockquarry

I've found very few people that keep kitchen knives sharp. My late mother-in-law not only had very dull knives, most had the points broken off because they were used as a screwdriver. I referred to them as "safety" knives; you'd never cut or puncture yourself with one but you might get a mild bruise.

In my limited time of being around knives I have found that getting cut by a dull blade is many times worse than a cut with sharp one.

Possibly its just me but stopping the bleeding if inured by a dull takes more time.. Not talking about being in a knife fight but by doing something stupid with a blade or some other item.

[hardluk1]

Something I was just thinking about that can get peoples attention . We do not go out to eat steak very often but on those occasions restaurants tend to have those jumbo sized saw tooth knifes to use and thats when both my wife and I tend to pull out or pocket flippers so you hear a Click Click of our knifes opening and we git some folks watching us . Even had a waitress a few times ask if there knife had a problem . No sawing needed just a pull of the blade and piece is ready to eat. When finished with the meal a dep in the glass of water and a wipe on the napkin has it cleaned .

[rockquarry]

Originally Posted by NYlakesider

In my limited time of being around knives I have found that getting cut by a dull blade is many times worse than a cut with sharp one.

Possibly its just me but stopping the bleeding if inured by a dull takes more time.. Not talking about being in a knife fight but by doing something stupid with a blade or some other item.

I've heard the "dull knife causes worse cuts" tale since I was in the Boy Scouts. Perhaps there is something to the claim but I have never seen any indication of such. Maybe it's because few go back and check the sharpness of a blade after an injury.

[chief38]

Originally Posted by rockquarry

I've heard the "dull knife causes worse cuts" tale since I was in the Boy Scouts. Perhaps there is something to the claim but I have never seen any indication of such. Maybe it's because few go back and check the sharpness of a blade after an injury.

The principle behind that saying is that with a dull knife you must use more effort to make a cut. By using more force you are more likely to injure yourself. That said, I have from time to time slipped, done something dumb or have been careless. No serious injuries, just superficial cuts, but not wanted either way!

[rockquarry]

Originally Posted by chief38

The principle behind that saying is that with a dull knife you must use more effort to make a cut. By using more force you are more likely to injure yourself. That said, I have from time to time slipped, done something dumb or have been careless. No serious injuries, just superficial cuts, but not wanted either way!

That makes sense.

[StrawHat]

A dull knife requires more force to make a cut. And the cut tends to be more jagged and heal slowly.

A surgeon always uses the sharpest edge available.

Kevin

[s&wchad]

Originally Posted by hardluk1

We do not go out to eat steak very often but on those occasions restaurants tend to have those jumbo sized saw tooth knifes to use and thats when both my wife and I tend to pull out or pocket flippers so you hear a Click Click of our knifes opening and we git some folks watching us.

It's possible to cut a steak without grinding the blade into the plate, but the vast majority of people don't give it a second thought. That's why restaurants use serrated knives.

I prefer a plain edge steak knife, but I usually give guests a serrated knife. The Mrs and I use the knives on the left. Everyone else gets the knives on the right.

[Hawg Rider]

Yes, kitchen knives can be a challenge! Although I have my own favorite kitchen knives, years ago my wife was "convinced" to buy a full set of Cutco knives...extremely expensive but lifetime warranty. I have to admit that after 20+ years they are still VG daily knives, sharpen well, and Cutco has only had to replace one paring knife for us at no charge. On the other hand, we bought a 3-knife set of Emeril's santoku knives. Terrible! Cheap knives that won't hold an edge and the edge chips. My favorites are Forschner, Victorinox, and Wustoff. My youngest son (former meat dept. manager for a large grocery chain) bought me a Dahlstrong Gladiator a couple of years ago and that's a great knife, too. I keep telling my wife to let me know whenever the knives start getting dull...I give them a few strokes on the 12" steel and they're good to go! Otherwise, for heavier sharpening, I use oil stones, or a Spyderco Triangle sharpener.

[chief38]

Originally Posted by s&wchad

It's possible to cut a steak without grinding the blade into the plate, but the vast majority of people don't give it a second thought. That's why restaurants use serrated knives.

I prefer a plain edge steak knife, but I usually give guests a serrated knife. The Mrs and I use the knives on the left. Everyone else gets the knives on the right.

I dislike serrated knives immensely! About the ONLY thing they are good for is cutting bread.

Around Christmas time we purchase at least one or two $500 gift certificates at Capitol Grill at a discount for future use. When you buy the certificate they also give you a set of 6 of their steak knives which are the same ones they use in their restaurant. They are of course serrated and since they are not really that sharp they rely on the saw tooth ripping action to cut meat. Since we have an excellent set of 8 Wusthof proper steak knives we rarely have any real use for the Capitol Grill free bees. We usually give a set to a friend, neighbor, relative etc. I did actually keep one set of 6 for use when we have a larger gathering and I love to watch which guests take what knife - lol. Most opt for the proper Wusthof knife instead of the too large, too clunky, saw-tooth Chinese made Capitol Grill knife. It's fun to watch - lol.

BTW, I have in the past actually ground off the serrations on cheap knives and sharpened them to give to people or for use as utility knives. Since most people don't keep their knives sharp, they rely on the serrations as do many of the restaurants. Restaurants don't want to have to resharpen knives every week and that is probably why most restaurants use serrated versions.

[KyleeMarks]

Dealing with thick blades is a real challenge, especially with lower-quality steel. Props to you for tackling the re-profiling and getting them to a usable state.

[chief38]

Originally Posted by KyleeMarks

Dealing with thick blades is a real challenge, especially with lower-quality steel. Props to you for tackling the re-profiling and getting them to a usable state.

What ever Chinese manufacturer is making the knives for Paula Dean should drop knife making and make Crow Bars - lol. With such poor steel I would think they made them extra thick to keep them from cracking.