Am I the only one on here that thinks that the Star Firestar and Astra A70/75 are some of the most under-rated firearms out there?

Too bad they are out of business, however parts are still readily available, but rarely are needed.........

Randy

I have a Star. I don't know what model.

It is a 9mm, pretty compact and is very similar to a 1911.

It locks up with a single lug, the barrel has a shroud, it uses a bushing just like a 1911, but the trigger is hinged at the top, and not like the 1911 with a trigger bow and a rearward travel to disconnect the sear. Plus it has an external extractor.

It's pretty neat! The blueing is really good and has stood up to an amazing amount of abuse. Since the pistol was cheap, it's been treated rough and it still looks good. Still shoots mighty fine too.

Never seen a Astra A70/75 in real life..heard they were a Sig style pistol?

I like the Firestar..have owned a .45acp version and would buy a 9mm if one popped up.

I had a Star PD, a light weight reduced sized 1911. Nice gun, but no leather was available for it back then. (And no internet to search for holster-makers either.)

I had an Astra A75. All steel, single stack, compact, traditional DA. Nice gun. Had a Star Model O in 9X21 also a nice solid pistola.

__________________
SOS USA

Still have my Star PD I bought used at a pawn shop in Fort Worth in 1988, and still carry it occasionally in a custom Tom Threepersons holster or two I had made by Bob Mika. Great gun. At one point I put over 20k rounds through it over a little more than two year period. The bushing is a bit worn and I have a spare but don't yet feel compelled to put it in. I used it to qualify for Texas CHL. I do have two recoil spring/guide sets, one for range, one for carry. Still have some original buffers, but the Wilson blue ones can be used as well.

__________________
USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

I have yet to see a major improvement, with all the various versions of the chopped 45 cal. 1911s out there, over the original Star PD. Accurate, light, reliable and cheap. Hold a #10 can at 50 yards. Have had three. Still have one. Carry a Kimber 5" CDP, but the Star is not for sale.

Regards,

Tam 3

I have a Star BKS in my collection that I purchased back in 1980. Awesome pistol!

I have an old Llama that has very little info online about it. Its a full size 1911 style 9mm. Wish someone would write a book on Llama pistols. From what little info there is its supposed to be a model that was used in the Spanish civil war and only sold outside Spain to a few Asian countries.

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A Astra Constable in .22 LR that I swapped for a HB S&W #10, which I still own. Two Star PD's way back in my younger years, along with these two. All of these guns were well made and functioned perfectly.

A Astra 75L 9mm former LE evidence gun, cost me $65.00. I spent another $35.00 for two mags from Numrich.


Kind of rusty and pitted on the right hand side.


After a bit of clean-up work and some grill paint. I sold this gun when I bought my first S&W #908.



A Star Firestar M40 .40 S&W. I recently decided to divest myself of this caliber, so I sold it. This was a fine little compact pistol, reasonably accurate, though a bit heavy.

My dad has a Star model P, which is the 1911 clone with no grip safety, and I had a Star model B in 9mm. They were ok. Fit and finish was lacking. My dad's model P developed a crack in the frame under the forward section of the slide and I convinced him to stop shooting it.

I traded my model B years back for something. Dont really regret the sale.

I used to have an Astra A-100, which I really liked, but sold it after my first divorce.

I now have a Star Firestar 40, like the one in ColbyBruces post, and like it a lot more. I'm not a big fan of DA autos.

Nothing wrong with the better Spanish marques. Astra and Star both made pistols and parts for Colt at various times. I like the M-43 Firestar so much , I bought a second one when I found it LNIB for $225 OTD,

Had the two-toned one for over 20yrs.


One of the distributors was blowing out their Star guns and I bought this M30 (top) for $200 brand new. This thing is built like a freakin' tank and can take the hottest loads. One gun magazine did a 5000rd torture test on one. It passed with flying colors and actually showed better accuracy afterwards. Was a very nice blue , but I wanted something different. I did it in grey-parkerizing with teflon coat and the small parts in black.



The WWII Astra 600 (bottom) was my first Spanish pistol and (and speaking as a toolmaker myself) ,is a very impressive piece of machine work , if somewhat wonky external design.

There were a combination of reasons for the demise of Spanish arms companies and sales.

Ironically , only Llama is still making guns.



Llama's rate right up there with Taurus, AFAIC.

Your m30 is truly a tank....AND it uses S&W 5900 series magazines as well.

Randy

The M30 is a great HD weapon. Good capacity and very easy to shoot. I currently own a Star Ultrastar, a peculiar steel and polymer hybrid compact. They have a rep for breaking the trigger return spring (metallurgy issue?) so I bought a Sig piece that looks about right as a spare. Haven't had to use it yet.

Be aware that many Spanish pistols do not have inertial firing pins. If the hammer is down, the firing pin is resting on or very near the primer of the CTG. in the chamber! If the gun is dropped, even with safety on, it may fire!

I used a Star Model B 9mm for a time. I basically liked it, but noted that the underside of the slide had some scratch marks, as if someone had used a nail to see if the slide was too soft. Pretty unsettling... (This gun was on loan from the importer; was not a used one.)

If I didn't need the money more for other guns, I'd cheerfully buy a Star Model BM, a Model B or BS, and a M-30. Add a Super S in .380. Had GCA '68 not banned importation based on size, I'd love a smaller .380 Star. And I like the Astra .25 imported by Colt.

I called the shooting range cited in an Intearms ad for the Star M-30. That rental gun had fired well over 100,000 rounds when I talked to them, with only minor parts replacement. The range spokesman told me that Star guns did well by them, and rental guns usually get a pounding, compared to those in private use. The importer also gave excellent customer service, according to them. The M-30 looks more like a SIG, but is based on the CZ -75.

I was surprised and interested to see that thriller author Peter O'Donnell (who is British) had his fictional heroine Modesty Blaise trade her Colt .32 for a Star PD .45 in later books. (She preferred a S&W M-57 .41 Magnum for longer range use.) Also was very proficient with unarmed combat and in use of the yawara stick, one of which she carried disguised as a purse handle that snapped free for use as a weapon. I think that the author read US gun magazines. His firearms knowledge was well above that of most thriller writers. He certainly did more research than Sir Arthur Conan Doyle did! And maybe more than Ian Fleming. Anyway, the guns in those books were well chosen, and I was pleased to see the choice of the Star, although it might be a trifle large to carry, for a woman of about five feet seven and maybe 117 pounds.

I think Modesty would have been better served by a Star .380 in one of the smaller models banned here after GCA '68, like the Model DS, if memory serves. It'd hide better on her slim frame.

I do think that Star and Astra guns are usually well made, although the firing pin issue and the occasional parts hardness factors trouble me. I certainly like Star having dispensed with the grip safety in Colt copies, which also differed in other regards. I have read that the trigger and safety designs were also superior to those used by Colt. But build quality is as important as design quality!

A very well known US gun and hunting writer told me that he had a chance to visit Llama and had bought one of their copies of an S&W revolver. I think it was the Comanche model. Similar to the S&W M-19. He felt that it was very well made, a pleasant surprise. It did need re-timing, but that was also a very serious problem with Colt and S&W guns then, too. Sloppy QC! Astra's equivalent revolver has also gotten generally good reviews, as did their smaller (J-frame equivalent) item. (Model Cadix.)

The Spaniards made some very nice highly decorated guns, many gold -Damascened and engraved. One chrome-plated Star 9mm was used in a Pedro Amoldovar-directed movie. It was brandished in a bar, not a good idea. But the owner was not a good man, either. The woman who killed him later hid the gun in her TV before she fell in love with the judge investigating her case. I wish I could recall the name of that film. I'd like to rent it again. Sound familiar to anyone? It's in Castilian Spanish, of course. I think it may be available with English subtitles. Well worth a look.

I think Llama is kaput also. 2004/05 somewhere in there.
Maybe they've come back 'under new managment'! I don't keep up with the new stuff much.
Star and Astra folded in the 90's

I've had many Astra and Star semiautos. I still have a couple Star pistols left, ,, Model F 22 auto models.
I found Star to be very nice pistols and always something a bit different, even if only in size from what the other mfg'rs offered.

A lot of Star pistols sold as new in the late 80s and early 90's in the USA were rehabed Spanish gov't trade-in's. Mostly Model S and it's variations, A & B Super and a few others.
Part of a deal w/the Spanish Gov't which included the contract w/Star for their new 9mm Service auto (M30?)


Of the Llama pistols, the small frame 'Especial' was the only one that ever interested me. The small 1911 look-a-like. I had several from different era's in 22lr and a few in 32acp and 380acp.
The WW2 German marked 32's will get a good price.
The 22's were and are still good sellers. Good shooters too.

Sarco still has some of these but not at give away prices.

__________________
Luke 22:36

I have an Astra A-80 in .45 that I bought new in the mid-1980's. It's basically a P-220 knockoff. Very dependable and accurate.

I really like my Firestar M40. I even make holsters for them (just finished a The Slide today for one).

Star Firestar Holsters by Side Guard Holsters



Here it is in my The Slide with exotic Python inlay.

__________________
Srigs

One of the things I really like about the Star BKS is it's weight. My BKS weighs 23.25 ounces unloaded. My commander sized RIA, on the other hand, weighs 35.45 ounces. One downside to the Star, however, is that it won't accept a standard 1911 magazine. Oh well!

My Llama dates to the 30s. When i bought it some guy was using it as a trunk gun and had it inside an Astra 600 holster. He kept spray painting it every time he saw rust. I paid $80 for it.







This is already after some light cleaning.



Some more cleaning and boiling.









And the final result.





I have yet to blue it. All i did was to take off the spray paint and oxidation. There was about 1% bluing left under all the crud and most of it is on the internals.

From what i've been able to find the pinky grove on the frame, those specific grips and a few other specific parts make it a domestic gun ment for and used in the Spanish civil war. Supposedly it has an original match grade barrel. The barrel itself is frosted but here are my groupings at about 12 feet.

Does this gun take normal 9X 19mm ammo? I can't read the slide inscription. It may be chambered for 9mm Largo.

I hope you get it nicely blued. Glad you saved it from its former fate.

Yep standard 9x19.

It has some oddities, like I cant find another mag for it. Even the identical looking Llamas that were imported here have a slightly different mag. I even exchanged emails and mags with a guy who's a big Spanish pistol pro and none of them fit. :banghead: im going to try 9mm 1911 mags, hopefully they work.

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Your's is a Llama Model XI-A in 9mm Parabellum w/a 5" Bbl
A shorter bbl version in 9mmP had the Model XI-B designation.
Right at the end of production it was made in 40S&W and was labeled the
Model XII-B
I think they made the model in 45acp too (late production) but don't recall the model#,,maybe XII-A(?)

It was made from the mid 30's till at least the late 1990's.
The grooved wooden grips are earliest production.
Then checkered wood,,then plastic.

It looks like a 'Q' proof date code on the frame over the trigger ,,it was proofed (mfg'd) in 1946.

If it's a 'G' then 1934,,and a good bet for use in the SCW.

That 'W' shaped detent power spring on the left side of the frame was only used on a couple of other Llama models. I'm not sure it was even used on the later production XI.
Many in the Llama and Star line do have a small bit of the bottom front gripstrap project forward as a grip aid, AFAIK the XI was the only Llama semi auto to have the actual finger grip grooves in the front strap.

When first made, it was Llama's first cal 9mmP production pistol I believe.

It's been sold all over the world and used by police and security. If the proof code/date is 'Q' (1946),,it's a bit late to have been used in the SCW. But many no doubt were.

Very nice clean up of the pistol. Early Llama & Star semiautos are not as common as they once were. Shoots good too!

Added: re: xtra mag,,This model used to be called a '9mm Especial'.
'Especial' was a common model designation term used on most Llama early semiautos.
The caliber being the difference between them.
There's a later production 9mmP also commonly called the 'Especial' but I don't know if the mags are the same.
I think these XI pistols mags hold 8.

The Roman Numeral Model designations came on later after this pistol was already in production. Model names were dropped and the Numeral designations began in an attempt to straighten out the confusion .

Perhaps an extra magazine might be listed under that early '9mm Especial' designation.

They almost look like an early (narrow base plate) STAR Model B magazine would fit. But that's really a guess. The frames are nearly the same in size/width. Even if it locked into place, there'd probably be fitting & trimming to the bottom as the angle looks more acute.
Just thinkin'....

"I have an old Llama that has very little info online about it. Its a full size 1911 style 9mm. Wish someone would write a book on Llama pistols."

I second that. I have owned 3 Llamas - One .38 Spl revolver (very similar to a S&W Model 10, with 2" barrel, one 1911-style in .38/9mm (as marked, but it shot .38 Super, 9mm Largo and 9mm Steyr equally well), and one I still have, which is, I think a Model XII in .45 ACP, which is much like a Colt GM, but with a rib on the slide and an adjustable rear sight. I think it is from the late 1970s-early 1980s. All appeared to be well-made and reliable. I really like the .45, I think it's as well finished (at least mine is) as any Colt. It just seems a bit sloppier in fit, but it shoots quite well. I saw nothing inferior about any of the 3 Llamas. I don't know why so many badmouth them. I wish I still had the two I sold.

I think a number of the Spanish big three pistols were underrated.

The Llama (or Ruby) snub mentioned above may be the Martial Model. Sometimes, older editions of Stoeger's Shooter's Bible will list models, and you can see the then-current prices.

At the Ruger 30th Anniversary press luncheon in San Antonio in 1979, I asked Col. Chas. Askins about Spanish guns, knowing that he probably knew them as well as any US gun scribe. He was US military attache at the Embassy in Madrid for some years and formed close ties to some of the manufacturers in Eibar. I think he was especially close to the people at Aguirre and Aranzabal.

He replied that, "They're about as good as our stuff." He definitely felt they were underrated.

But if you offered him a Colt Govt. Model auto or a. 38 Super to protect himself, or an equivalent Star or Llama, I feel practically certain that he'd opt for the US gun.

See my post above about soft steel in some cases, and about inertial firing pins. However, South Africa issued some Star Model B 9mms during the UN arms embargo that lasted from the early 1960's to about 1995, when the drastic change in government occurred. These guns apparently served well until supplemented or replaced with Walther and Beretta designs.

One of those Star 9mms achieved some distinction in being the sidearm used by a South African officer who used it to kill some Cubans attacking his stalled tank or armored car in Angola after it was out of ammo for the main gun and machine guns. Some of them got right up on the tank before he shot them, and seemed to be on dope.


The Star worked fine and the captain in question was awarded the Honoris Crux (Cross of Honor) , which was, I think, the highest medal they gave. He and his crew had been through unhappy Hades during the fighting and more was involved than told here. I suspect that he was pretty pleased to have had that pistol... No question that it saved his bacon, er, biltong.

Some of you may recall that article in SOF a few years back.

Texas Star, the scratch marks on the underside of the slide on your Model B may have been Roman numerals that were fitter's marks designed to help keep the parts together during assembly, polishing and bluing. Antaris discusses that practice in the wonderful book he wrote Star Firearms.
I suggest that anyone with even a passing interest in Star firearms pick up this book. It is equivalent in scope to Clawson's "Big Book" on the M1911 Service Pistols, and the color photos are pure gun porn.

Maybe, Walter, but I don't recall that they looked Roman. And the scratches were bright, cut through the bluing. Some guns were rejected by countries in the Middle East for soft parts and Interarms may have imported some. I wish I knew.

Where do I find Antaris's book, and is that the author's name or a pen name? What's it cost?

I have a gun book written by a Spaniard that suggests that current Spanish police and military units often use H-K arms. But it covers a wide range of US and Euro guns, too. Barnes & Noble often has such gun titles in stock in the bargain books. They can be very informative, as US writers seldom discuss Euro guns.

I have the older astra's, stars and llama pistols in my collection. The astra 400/1921 and the astra 600/43 remind me of a mack truck built very strong. The stars are 1911 copies in some cases and so is the llama. I like shooting the 9mm largo round too. Its still $149 for 1,000rds. All these pistols are very popular in europe. The astra company just opened up in switzerland. There offering a new 1911.

"The Llama (or Ruby) snub mentioned above may be the Martial Model. Sometimes, older editions of Stoeger's Shooter's Bible will list models, and you can see the then-current prices."

My Llama .38 Special revolver was not a Martial, I think those came along later. I bought it about 1968. I remember it set me back $60, new and in the box. I do remember that there was a Llama sticker on the box, which was pasted over a Ruby label. I sold it only because I thought it to be too large for a snubbie. I think the firing pin was in the frame instead of on the hammer, one departure from the S&W design.

It was very common in the Spanish firearms trade to use Roman Numerals on the gun parts as they went through the mfg process. An assembly number of sorts.
Easy read by even less educated workers and easily applied with nothing more than the flat blade edge of a small chisel & hammer or a scribe.

Parts were kept together as they were fitted and marked w/the numeral. All on a tray usually with a 'master' Numeral punch marked into it.
The parts on that tray all received that same numeral.

When the gun was complete & serial numbered and the tray is empty of parts,,the tray goes back to the beginning point in the mfg process and a new set of parts begins it's trip thru, again receiving the tray's numeral.

The numeral is random at best. It's only function is as an assembly number to keep the fitted parts together during mfg'r.

I've seen them most often on Llama and Star,,not quite as often on Astra for some reason.

The same Roman Numeral type matching system seems to be used pistol grips made in Mexico and SA. That would stand to reason if it was a Spanish tradition in the trades of some sort, but it is only my guess.

I haven't seen it on Spanish mfg pistols made much after the 1960's.
It's found on a lot of Spanish made shotguns also from the same era.
Just their way of doing things in the cottage type industry they had and continued into the factory setting for quite a time also.