My 12 year old son is really getting into hunting and shooting guns right now. I have a 30-06, .223, .22 and a few 12guage shotguns that he shoots but I want to get him his own. Guess I should say that I bought the .22 (S & W 15-22) for him but want something that he can hunt hog n deer with. Been doing some research but haven't come to a decision yet. Should I get him a 243 or 270? And y?

Yes.


Either of those would be great for deer etc. guess it just comes down to ammo availability, you want a long or short action, is recoil an issue etc. I bought my son. .243 at that age but a .270 would have been fine.

Check out the CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39. It's a very slick little rifle, top quality, accurate, fun, and cheap to shoot, plus it comes with iron sights and a set of rings. I picked one up this spring and put a Redfield 2-7x scope on it and it's a great combo, my new walking around rifle. Recoil isn't much and the 7.62x39 has ballistics similar to a 30-30. My 12 year old really enjoys it, too, and since the ammo is so cheap he can shoot it all he wants.

I don't have a pic of mine but I borrowed this one from canoeguy's post about his rifle, mine is set up the same way. Here's a link to his thread - http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/...love-pics.html

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

.260 Rem or the 7mm-08. With todays quality hunting bullets either one is fine for deer or hogs.

If he can handle your .30-06 and 12 gauge, why not let him use those or get him one? Why bother suggesting a different gun to him?

On a practical note, if you both sight in with the same caliber with identical ammo, if you're ever out hunting and one of you runs out of bullets/drops them in the mud/forgets them at home, etc., you can bum a couple rounds from each other.

Just my opinion.

Either would be fine. The CZ above or a 30-30 might be a better choice if recoil is a concern. They'd both be cheaper to shoot too.
a semi-auto will probably have less recoil than a bolt gun too, but I'd tend avoid that for a first hunting gun.

how about a 308? There are more ammo options available (including surplus), and the recoil isn't all that much different between it and a 243.

Without knowing about your sons size or build, it is difficult to make a recommendation. My daughter, at that age, was very thin (and still is at 24) and tall. I chose a .243 and it couldn't have been better!

There is, IMO, a significant difference in the recoil between the .243, 7mm08 and the .308. The .243 has much less felt recoil.

Duhhhhh.....can't believe it took to post #5.

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Forum consigliere

Thanks all for your opinions and info. Guess I should have been more complete.
He shoots my all my guns but can't get good accuracy with the 30-06 n 12 gauge because he's flinching in anticipation of the recoil. I want to get him a rifle that he is comfortable with and not concerned about recoil so he can concentrate on the shot and improve accuracy therefore building his confidence. He will be hunting hogs and deer out to about 100yrds.
I have never heard of the CZ but am going to look into them.
Has for the 308, I would love for us to have one but I though the recoil was more up in the 30-06/12 gauge range?


My son is medium built, 5' 1" tall and weights 95lbs

If he's flinching with the .30-06 go with the .243. He'll probably still flinch with a .270.

Two EXCELLENT choices! Take a look at the Remington Model Seven. Available in either caliber. Carbine length,low recoil and easy to handle.
My seven-year-old grandson took this buck with a 7mm-08 last year.



f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

Well depends on a few more "things". Do yall live where can do some varmint hunting? Do you intend to shoot @ a range for nice groups? Do you intend to take up handloading? If yes to the above, a nice Remington heavy bbl would sure be nice. If mainly a deer gun etc.........whatever fits him

I have no advice, but a question. Whether its a defense gun for a woman or a hunting gun for a youth, why are we so quick to recommend a caliber that we ourselves wouldnt depend our lives on and consider a caliber for a youth for hunting that we ourselves wouldnt use thinking it wouldnt do the job?

Because the youth has already developed bad habits (flinching) he needs to overcome? And a mild-recoiling like the .243 might allow him to do this?

there is nothing wrong with a .243 for a grown man anyway. I dont know why people think it wont do the job on deer sized game. Shot placement people. I hunt with a 270 and its done well for me, but Ive seen plenty of deer taken with a 243.

The .243 all the way. In a good rifle the .243 is capable of stellar bench accuracy without battering recoil and is a fine medium game rifle to boot. The .270 is still going to recoil nearly as much as the .30-06. 7mm-08 is a great caliber, but sometimes ammo availability isn't the best.

You definitely want to get a rifle and caliber your son will enjoy range time with. A gun that hurts will make him develop flinching and trigger jerk issues which are very hard to break. FYI, in western PA the .243 is a very popular deer cartridge with youths and women.

I use both of those guns I recommended. Successfully,I might add.
f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

I guess I am nitpicking. But overall I have seen these questions forever. The point I am trying to make here is lets do this in reverse? If a youth or woman can handle a small caliber and we think it will properly kill, why then do we go to a bigger harder kicking weapon ourselves. I am relateing this question to the often asked and advised question moreso with defense handguns for women. Many times I have seen it advised a woman to get a .32 or .380 for defense and the writers adviseing that wont use anything under a .357 or .45 acp themselves.

I have nothing against a 243. I think its a fine caliber for your intended game, but if he is flinching with the 30-06, he will flinch with the 243.

gotta go lighter than a 243 IMO. The CZ in 7.72x39 or a maybe a 30-30 (not sure how it would stack up) is what I'd recommend. Maybe a 6.8spc or 300aac, but I'm not sure how you'll fare finding them anything other than an AR though. I'll even through 44mag into the mix.

the other thought is to find some reduced recoil ammo. I know they make it for the 270 and 12ga, I'd assume its also available for the 30-06 and 243 also. or just put the gun money towards reloading equipment and load your own.

How about a muzzle loader? mine kicks noticeably harder than my 270 with a 300gr bullet and 150 gr worth of pellets, but there's no reason you couldn't use one with 50gr of powder and a 200gr or lighter bullet. as he gets used to it, load up a magnum shot every now and then and see what happens.

270 with managed recoil ammo. That's how I'm setup. Can work into the full power stuff later. Will be able to use on just about anything the rest of his life. 270 is cheaperthan 243

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War Eagle! '10 BCS & '13 SEC

Case in point.. My father's pre64 M70 270 featherweight. Dad got CAD and PAD and I got the gun. I would take it to the range and the next day after 15 or so rounds, My shoulder had visible bruising. Now I am not a lightweight and that gun kicked!! Fast forward about six years and I decide to restock it. Put a Brown Precision fiberglass stock and a Pachymar Decelerator pad on it and what a change! Of course, shooting the same ammo... So I would not discount the 30-06 or the 270 with a shortened stock and a thick recoil pad and the reduced loads. Reloading is also a good way to spend quality time with the kid. He will also get a great deal of satisfaction in making something that is perhaps more accurate than what came in the box and harvesting game with "his bullets".

I haven't hunted deer since my youth but I hunted with a 6mm for a couple of years before graduating to a .308. The 6mm is similar to the .243 which I didn't have any problems on the bench but the .308 kick me in the rear. The recoil was substantial for a smaller frame. Honestly, it was too much gun for a 14yr old.

Several posters said it already, and I completely agree with the '06. Same ammo as you and he will never grow out of it. It will do ANYTHING he will need it to do. He can shoot lighter bullets a bit faster for slightly less perceived recoil. You can even put a break on the muzzle and take it on and off if there is a flinching habit to overcome. Just a few thoughts to mull over before you make his choice. Have you asked him what he wants? And for arguments sake, why has the venerable .30-.30 Winchester not been offered in the mix. What kid doesn't want a lever-action? You will not have duplicity in the field as with the '06, but a '94 has proven itself for MANY years.

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Go big or stay home

My brother's first deer rifle was a .270. He got it with a Herters stock and a shotgun recoil pad. It didn't kick bad IMO. A few years ago he put a plastic stock on it and that lightened the gun up but it is a kicking *** now. I am not a hog hunter, so I cannot tell you how a .243 will work on them, but a .243 works fine on whitetails, especially in cover.

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Luke 22:36

Don't rule out the 7mm08. My Remington model 7 in that cal has done a good job for me for a lot of years.

The 6,5mm mauser in a swede rifle is another good choice too. www.aimsurplus.com has the priv-partizan 139gr. ammo for $12 a box. The 7.62x39 round comes in 125gr and 154gr so it can hunt varmits up to deer sized game. This ammo can be found at www.sportsmansguide.com As we grow up the russian mosin 91/30 makes a great deer/bear rifle too for $99 and they offer the 203gr ammo. The 7mm mauser is one of the flatest shooting rounds there is. Using a 125yd zero the bullets path varies between 1/2" to 3/4" the whole distance from the muzzle to 125yds. It also has a lighter recoil like the 6,5mm swede does.

Get the 243. But make sure it is one that has a soft butt-pad not a hard plastic one. 243 is plenty sufficient for deer, and way more than enough for hogs. There are a lot of very nice rifles that are available, but don't get an ultra light, or he will have the same recoil problems. Remington 700, Savage (with accutrigger), are a couple good ones. CZ makes very nice sporters. I have a Savage heavy barrel Varmint that shoots well under a 1/2" @ 100 that I use for long range Prairie Dogs.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I tried a 7-30 Waters many years ago that a friend has.
The only *deer rifle* that I have now is a Contender in 7-30 Waters.
I had a Weatherby in 270 Winchester but I've found that the 7-30 kills deer just a dead without much recoil -- And it's really easy to tote all day. Traded the Weatherby for a bass boat and don't miss it at all.
P.S. Most deer hunting that I do is from 100 yards in. Usually less than 30 yards. If I lived where LONG shots are the norm I'd probably go to a 308.

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In dog years I'm dead.

My father and I both took mountain goats and dall sheep with a 243. When I got a little older I used a 30-06. Since we reloaded, the 30-06 offers a wide range of loads. When I got older I used a 338 which is overkill for your needs.

These days I think I would go with the 7.62 x 39 suggestion. It is more than adequate and cheap to shoot. If he enjoys shooting it cost may be a big factor if you don't reload.

The older I get, the less I seem to want to deal with recoil myself. I hunt deer and hogs with a .243 Browning A-Bolt. I've got bigger, but have found this to be sufficient without ringing my bell. I think a 7mm-08 is a great choice as well.

Chubbs

7mm-08. It has amazing ability to put a deer down with minimal recoil. Flatter shooting than .308. Available in short light guns. Short cartridge means short action and easier to cycle. Ready availability of cartridges also. Of your specified calibers, I think of the .243 as an experts round. It is simply too small to allow any error in accuracy without resulting in a lost animal. The .270 is going to have the recoil of a 30.06 and is going to require a long action gun. Also,I am a firm believer a given household can have 30.06 or .270 rifles but should not have both. The cartridges are too similar and could result in someone picking up the wrong cartridges for the gun they are using.

Don't overgun him. Realize he may want a larger caliber later and will require another rifle. But every time I have seen someone load a kid with a 30.06 or .270 thinking they wont have to ever buy another and the kid will grow into it, has resulted in a kid who could not hit anything from flinching.

My nephew got his first deer gun from his father, a 243. The thinking was he could at a later time also use it for varmint and fox hunting and when he got older could buy what he preferred for deer season. I have seen some flinching issues with beginners at the range,but could not determine if its a caliber thing or the teacher.

i hope you arent saying that a .243 recoil is anywhere close to a 30-06? Im thinking/hoping you meant 270 here?

I also feel the 243 should be left to the more experienced hunter. I started my son with a 7mm08. Give him plenty of range time to get comfortable and start with 120 gr bullets.

243 with 100g bullets is plenty at 250yds or less.

I have both....I would go with the .243. Less recoil...cheaper to shoot....more versatile....deer and varmint cal. I personally like my .22-250 better than either of those calibers for deer and varmints.

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

I never said there wasn't a difference, but the 243 still has enough behind it to keep him flinching. Powder charge plays a much bigger role in recoil than bullet bore or weight.

I'd get a 243.Mild recoil,but powerful enough for an average deer.And it gives you another caliber to play with when he wants a bigger gun.

.243 or .257 Roberts for the lighter recoil.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

Heck I wish I had a .243!!
Who likes getti g beat up on recoil?

If he's already developed a flinch he'll have a heck of a time getting rid of it with any caliber. My first center fire was a 30-06 for 8th grade graduation. I was about 140 Lbs. got me a wicked flinch to this day unless I really work at it.

Emory

I've never used the .243 on anything. Having been on the range with more than a few, the muzzle blast-at least with whatever ammo they were using-was tremendous.

I tend to agree with those who suggest something of slightly larger caliber. .260/ 7mm-08 Remington or maybe the old 7x57mm. Several folks I know went that route with younger shooters and were quite happy with the results.

I recall one father/son who were sighting in a Remington model 7 in .30-06 (way to go dad). The kid wasn't doing well at all. I offered the kid a chance to shoot my '06, which was quite a bit heavier. The kid looked up at Dad after several shots where he actually hit the 100 yard gong, and said: "I like this one, it doesn't kick!"

How about the T/C Dimension? You can change barrels yourself, and with the same bolt change from .22-250 to .243 to 7mm.-08 to .308 on the same gun as he gets bigger and goes after different game. The above calibers are all based on the .308 case. With a different bolt you can shoot .270 or .30-06 and other bolts work for the heavy magnums or .22 varmint calibers. The Thompson/Center website has all the info.

Without reading all the replies I'll throw in for a Browning X-Bolt 'Micro Hunter' in 243. A great youth gun that he will be proud to own the rest of his life.

Having read the thread, I know the lad's size. I think the .243 is the answer. Using Federal Premium ammo with Nosler bullets will probably provide all the punch needed, although I'd prefer more gun for a larger pig.

I have a 7mm-08 Howa 1500 that my DIL traded me for something else and it has a Youth stock. I think it would also work well, and be a better gun for larger animals. I suspect they make this model in .243, also.

The Reduced Recoil loads from Remington seem adequate to maybe 200 yards and my .270 Featherweight doesn't kick much with them.

The .30-30 kicks too much for many youth.

He'll be able to use a ,243 later, for coyotes and the like and smaller deer.

I think the man who suggested the 7.62mm Moisin is not a realist. And we alreqdy know the kid flinches with the .30-06.

The .243 comes in a wide choice of rifles and is ideal for the need.

I think it is a 243 in a landslide!! Now seriously, your son will get better shooting techinique with a 22. Practice a bunch with it. I have bought all 4 of my kids Remington or winchesters in 243. I added a muzzle brake to them, miminal kick but a lot louder!! As my son and son in law got older, I got them a 270.

The big question is where do you plan on hunting? My 243 will kill any game animal in Texas, Colorado on a mule deer or Elk, maybe I would step up to 270 or 30 06.
I would stay away from the 30 30 because the stock is so narrow, I bought one when I was 125 skinny 18 year old and it beat me to death!!

I bought my son, who was quite recoil adverse, a Weatherby Vangard "youth model" in .243, and had a Mag Na Break installed. At the time they shipped the rifle with a second longer stock for use as the child grew. While I have no data as to hog's, federal loaded 85gr Barnes Triple-Shock's are four shots four kills on Michigan whitetails, at ranges out to 145yds. I had the second stock installed last spring, and even though he now has a .308 to die for, the .243 is what he continues to shoot.

Important note for the dad; standing next to a kid shooting a 20" .243 with a break on the line, may be one of the most abusive events in my shooting life. I would rather shoot my .300 Wby. then spot for the kid...

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always trust your cape...

Get a .243 or use the reduced recoil rounds in a .308, .270 or .30-06.

Less flinch = more accuracy

More accuracy = more confidence

More confidence = better shot placement

Better shots = more dead game

He won't "need" a bigger rifle unless he hunts bear, elk or moose.

.30-30s kick hard in typical lever actions. CB

I'm telling you. Those reduced recoil loads are GREAT. My 270 kicks like a 243. Similar ballistics to the 257 Roberts mentioned earlier. When he gets used to shooting, he can use the "real" stuff, if he needs to.

Go ahead and buy 5 boxes or so, so you have them. He won't need more than that, I'm guessing. Normal 270 ammo cheap and plentiful. Easier to find than 243.

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War Eagle! '10 BCS & '13 SEC

Start him out with a decent bolt action rifle with iron sites. Let him learn to shoot properly rather than relying on the ability to spray ammo around.

I bought carbine size Krag sporters for all my kids. Put recoil pads on them and they are even more mild. I buy antiques from pre 1899 so they ship direct. Ammo is about a 1.50 a round until Prvi can be convinced to offer it. Reloading seems to use easy to find 308 dia bullets. I pay in the 350 range give or take and finally got some reloading tools.