Smith & Wesson Forum

Advertise With Us Search
Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics

Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics Post Your General Gun Topics and Non-S&W Gun and Blade Topics Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-23-2014, 06:48 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,991
Liked 51,950 Times in 6,162 Posts
Default History of the Savage Model 99

Once again, this is a draft article - comments/corrections, etc. are always welcome before it goes into the bin for future publication.

John



The Savage Model 99 rifle, the design of which had its beginnings back in 1892, was produced with very few changes for nearly 100 years. It has been described as one of the finest running game rifles ever produced. It was one of only two lever actions designed around the turn of the 20th century that could accommodate spitzer (pointed) bullets. It was hammerless, giving a very fast ignition time, and it was way less prone to catching on clothing or brush. Unlike its only spitzer-usable lever action competitor at the time, the Winchester Model 1895, there was no projecting magazine to complicate fast handling, portability and balance. Its cock-on-closing action made for fast, slick operation. A novel feature was a built-in cartridge counter that showed the number of rounds remaining in its internal rotary magazine. It even had an indicator that showed when the action was cocked. These were all very modern features for a rifle of that era. Over one million were produced, and even years after manufacture finally ceased in 1998, these rifles will still be found in the hunting fields and treasured by their owners. They are also increasingly popular as valued collector items.

The story of the Model 99 has to begin with its inventor, Arthur William Savage. His life story is so incredible that it would make a terrific adventure novel. Born on May 13th, 1857 to Welsh parents in Jamaica, young Arthur studied in England, and later joined his mother in Baltimore, Maryland. There, he had his first glimpse of the opportunities for achievement possible in the United States. His mother then moved to Glasgow, Scotland, where 16-year-old Arthur sadly lost her to complications from minor surgery. He then moved in with an uncle in London to study art. Hearing a Charles Darwin lecture about the wonders of the natural world, he talked his uncle into getting him passage to see Australia. While there, he actually lived with a band of aborigines for a couple of years. After returning to his own more civilized people, Arthur married and fathered eight children. The family then moved to England, and then back to Jamaica, where Arthur managed a banana plantation. In 1886, bored with this life, he and his family moved to New York, where he took employment with a patents publisher. Inspired by this environment, Arthur showed a talent on his own for inventing. He designed a falling block rifle with a tubular magazine and submitted it to the British government for trials, but it lost to the Lee bolt action. He sold the patent to Hartley & Graham, and with the $10,000 proceeds, he moved to Utica, New York to manage a railroad and then a streetcar line in Saratoga Springs. In his free time he designed a new military rifle with an 8-round rotary magazine. Two prototypes were made by Colt and submitted to U.S. Army trials in 1892, where his rifle lost to the Krag-Jorgensen system. It was felt that the rifle submitted was too slow to load and would require too much space to operate the lever for a military arm. Undeterred, Savage formed the Savage Repeating Arms Company in 1894 and contracted with Marlin to produce what was known as the Savage Model 1895. With its enclosed action, rotary 5-shot magazine and obvious advantages over tubular magazine lever actions, it sold well on the sporting market for four years. Savage then decided to open his own manufacturing facility, and upgraded the rifle with minor improvements to the Model 1899, which subsequently was known as the Model 99.

Ever the restless adventurer, Savage sold at least part of his interest in the company in 1905. He moved to California and dabbled in orange growing. Then, in 1911, he patented a radial tire in San Diego and formed the Savage Tire Company, selling it in 1919, about the time his wife died. Still fascinated with guns in this time period, he formed a new gun company in 1917 with his son, Arthur John Savage – the A.J. Savage Company. It is best known for producing a quantity of Model 1911 .45 automatic slides that were eventually used on reworked 1911 pistols. Arthur then involved himself with oil drilling, gold mining, and pipe, brick, and tile manufacture. He also found time to manage the San Gabriel Water Company. His incredibly active and productive life came to a sad end when, after being diagnosed with a painful and terminal form of cancer, he committed suicide on September 22, 1938 with a single pistol shot. He was 81.

The name of the company was changed in 1917 to the Savage Arms Corporation. Arthur Savage’s Model 99 continued to be manufactured way beyond the time he left the company he founded. The cocking indicator was changed from a hinged bar at the front of the breech bolt to a small pin on the tang of the receiver, which could be felt or seen easily. While the initial cartridge for which it was chambered was the .303 Savage (virtually a .30-30 clone), subsequent chamberings included but were not limited to .30-30, 25-35, 32.40, .38-55, .300 Savage, .22 High-power, .250-3000, .308 Winchester, .243, .358, .284, .250 Savage, 7mm-08, and .375. In 1922, .410 shotgun barrels were offered for takedown models. These were discontinued in 1934.

As originally designed, the Model 99 ejects its shells to the right side, which makes it particularly suitable for scope mounting. By the same token, most were not drilled and tapped for scope mounts until the late 1950s. The rifle illustrated here was made in 1951 in Chicopee Falls, Massachusetts. It has an open folding rear sight on the barrel, and mounting holes for a tang peep sight if desired. With a 24” barrel, it’s chambered for the .300 Savage, a 1920 design that almost rivaled the .30-06 in power. This was an efficient and popular choice that eventually was modified to become the .308 Winchester cartridge. With a rounded receiver bottom to accommodate the rotary magazine, the rifle grasps easily and naturally there, as that is also the balance point. This accounts for so many receivers where the bluing is faded underneath. The lever itself is almost always case hardened, and its mottled colors make for a nice contrast with the other blued parts. The sliding safety is just behind the trigger on the right side, and locks the lever in place as well as blocking the trigger from functioning. The rotary magazine follower with its built-in cartridge counter numbers was originally made of brass, then aluminum due to brass shortage during WWII, and then steel on a random basis. Some can be found case-hardened. The receiver and action was lengthened in the 1950s at approximately serial number 900,000 so as to accept the longer cartridges in the .308 family. The millionth 99 came off the line in 1960.

Many standard pre-war and post-war models were offered, each with slightly different configurations of barrels, stocks, checkering, buttplates, and finish. Almost all had letter designations; for example, the rifle illustrated was built on the “EG” pattern, which was the longest running. Quite a number were factory engraved. In 1960, the model F marked the introduction of a tang-mounted safety. The legendary rotary magazine gave way to a removable staggered-stack 3- or 4-round magazine in 1965. This was the Model 99C.

It’s very hard to pin down a manufacturing date on any particular 99. Rifles were seldom shipped in serial number order. After the receivers were serialed, they would go into a bin and be randomly selected for eventual completion. This dating problem was partially alleviated starting in 1949 and continuing through 1970, where a letter was stamped on the front of the boss where the lever is attached. It’s a code for the year of manufacture. The following letters were utilized: A=1949, B=1950, C=1951, D=1952, E=1953, F=1954, G=1955, H=1956, I=1957, J=1958, K=1959, L=1960, M=1961, N=1962, O was skipped, P=1963, Q was skipped, R=1964, S=1965, T=1966, U=1967, V=1968, W=1969, and X=1970. Any number also stamped with this code on the lever boss would be an inspector’s stamp, and is of no particular importance.

Collectors tend to favor the pre-war models made in Utica, NY in uncommon calibers, and then those made in Chicopee Falls, MA (beginning circa 1946), followed by those made in Westfield, MA (beginning in 1960). Most of the extensively engraved models with fancy wood were made during the 1960s, and these have significant collector interest. It’s generally agreed that quality control went downhill after the 1950s, hence the greater interest in the earlier guns.

As a footnote, the modern-day Savage Sports Corporation is being sold with its parent Caliber Company to the ATK Corporation, which is otherwise involved in commercial and security ammunition, shooting sports and security-related accessories.

The Savage 99 was an enduring design, but sadly, it may never be re-introduced. It became too expensive to manufacture and sell at anywhere near an acceptable retail price. It remains as one of the classic lever action sporting rifles, with innovative features that are still special today.

(c) 2014 JLM
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Last edited by PALADIN85020; 04-02-2014 at 04:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-23-2014, 07:03 PM
BaldEagle1313's Avatar
BaldEagle1313 BaldEagle1313 is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mountlake Terrace, WA
Posts: 2,142
Likes: 1,147
Liked 1,480 Times in 595 Posts
Default

As always, I learn something from every one of these types of posts you do. Thank you for the lesson.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-23-2014, 07:12 PM
Faulkner's Avatar
Faulkner Faulkner is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Posts: 6,503
Likes: 7,835
Liked 36,376 Times in 3,893 Posts
Default

Very interesting read. I've never seen one of these other than on a gunshow table.
__________________
- Change it back -
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-23-2014, 07:18 PM
Pop's2's Avatar
Pop's2 Pop's2 is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 787
Likes: 1,432
Liked 517 Times in 202 Posts
Default

My first Deer hunting rifle was a Savage 99 in 300 Savage with a Williams peep sight. I got it in 1957 and believe it was a Mod 99(R).
I gave it to my Son along with my Grandfathers Mod 99 with octagon barrel in Savage .303 (with a Weaver scope). I am in Az until May and the Son is in Mexico right now on vacation so no pictures or way of checking for the (R) designation. Very nice guns; always enjoy your articles John.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-23-2014, 07:25 PM
Kiteman72 Kiteman72 is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 173
Likes: 128
Liked 95 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldEagle1313 View Post
As always, I learn something from every one of these types of posts you do. Thank you for the lesson.
I agree, great post. I killed my first whitetail with a 99 chambered in 243 and have a real soft spot for, and interest in, these classic rifles.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-23-2014, 07:28 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,361
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,170 Times in 7,411 Posts
Default

Some think that Dr. Roy C. Andrews used Model 99's on his expeditions because he mentioned .250 Savages. He or companions may have had some M-99's, but in the only photo that I've seen of him with a Savage, he was holding a bolt-action Model 20. He was more specific about his Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbines.

John, does your editor want such light photos? I can see what's there, but a little darker print would be sharper and more realistic. Apart from that, your photos are always excellent.

Thanks for the info that ATK is buying Savage. Isn't that the same company that has Speer/CCI and Federal? Beats being sold to the outfit that took over Remington and Marlin, R.I.P.

Last edited by Texas Star; 03-23-2014 at 07:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 03-23-2014, 07:29 PM
Alpo's Avatar
Alpo Alpo is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: N/W Florida
Posts: 5,820
Likes: 2,523
Liked 6,509 Times in 2,521 Posts
Default

>t was one of only two lever actions that could accommodate spitzer (pointed) bullets<

When you say, "WAS", are you referring to "back in 1899", only?

'Cause the Winchester 95, the Savage 99, the Winchester 88 and the Browning BLR are all lever guns that will take spitzers, and that adds up to more than two.
__________________
I always take precautions
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-23-2014, 07:32 PM
rock doc's Avatar
rock doc rock doc is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NW OH
Posts: 2,082
Likes: 3,394
Liked 2,492 Times in 827 Posts
Default

Thanks for the interesting article, as always. I used to have a booklet about the Savage 99, but I can't seem to remember where it went. Here my .300 Savage 99 takedown variation.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg savage 1.jpg (133.0 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg savage 2.jpg (110.0 KB, 106 views)
__________________
Inconsistently consistent
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 03-23-2014, 10:44 PM
Cyrano's Avatar
Cyrano Cyrano is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,579
Likes: 13,500
Liked 6,751 Times in 2,528 Posts
Default

A friend likes the Savage 99 and has had a sucession of them, in 300 Savage. One he gave to his daughter who is left handed. I've shot most of his, and find the trigger pulls to be poor. Because of the design, it's difficult to improve the pull.

Jack O'Connor was a Savage fan; he particularly liked the 250-3000. In one of his books he describes taking one down into Mexico in the 1920s, when the Revolution was still going on. He kept a camp of lumberjacks in venison with it; They were cutting wood for railroad tries He said he made 22 successive one shot kills with the 250 cartridge during that trip.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 03-23-2014, 10:46 PM
Coldshooter's Avatar
Coldshooter Coldshooter is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairbanks AK
Posts: 1,422
Likes: 314
Liked 2,521 Times in 708 Posts
Default

I have several books on Alaska history and have been researching the photo archives here. The Savage 99 is often seen in early pictures it is the most common rifle I have seen in photos from prior to 1920, long barrels curved butt plate predominate. No way to tell the caliber. Many old timers I know have had .300 Savage in model 99s.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-23-2014, 10:51 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,991
Liked 51,950 Times in 6,162 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
John, does your editor want such light photos? I can see what's there, but a little darker print would be sharper and more realistic. Apart from that, your photos are always excellent.
The photo I used here is not the final product that will be submitted with the article. It will be much larger, with great detail, and more than probably somewhat darker. It's often dicey to balance detail in the darker areas of the subject - too dark, for example, makes the grain in wood go away and diminish the highlights in metallic areas. This will be fine tuned before publication. Thanks for noticing. I've darkened the image somewhat here.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Last edited by PALADIN85020; 03-23-2014 at 11:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 03-23-2014, 10:52 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,991
Liked 51,950 Times in 6,162 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpo View Post
>t was one of only two lever actions that could accommodate spitzer (pointed) bullets<

When you say, "WAS", are you referring to "back in 1899", only?

'Cause the Winchester 95, the Savage 99, the Winchester 88 and the Browning BLR are all lever guns that will take spitzers, and that adds up to more than two.
Good point. I was referring to lever actions at that time - around the turn of the century. I will try to make that more clear; I've modified the OP.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Last edited by PALADIN85020; 03-23-2014 at 10:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:48 AM
Eltioloco Eltioloco is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 317
Likes: 2,698
Liked 1,173 Times in 223 Posts
Default

As always, a very interesting and informative article.

Here is my 99. Chambered in .30-30, 1909 date.
Ken




Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 03-24-2014, 09:08 AM
Boox Boox is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 4th Coast, USA
Posts: 229
Likes: 491
Liked 222 Times in 87 Posts
Default

Another great article. Paladin, you always seem to come up with something that piques my interest and Savage 99's do that. I have 4 of them and am always looking. None are super examples, all are shooter grade, but as a lefty I love them. Still looking for a 250-3000 in decent shape, but have 2 .303 savages, a .300 savage, and my youngest model is a .243 from 1965. Thanx for the additional info.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-24-2014, 10:22 AM
DoubleAdobe DoubleAdobe is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SouthEast AZ
Posts: 401
Likes: 1,568
Liked 439 Times in 195 Posts
Default

Another very interesting article. My Dad received his, in 300 sav. from my mother while they were living in the Gila Wilderness just before deer season of 1953. My Dad's old '95 in 30-40 Krag had been borrowed and not returned recently. My Mom consulted on the downlow with some knowledgable guys and they suggested the 99 to replace the Winchester.
My Dad told me sheepishly that he missed the first three deer he shot at with the new rifle, he reluctantly sought advice and adjusted sights and it became a game getter for many years, it still is.
I will try to post a picture of it, some of you will recoil in horror, because it rode in a saddle scabbard so long it looks like it was curried with barbed wire. I later killed a number of mulies and our little Coues deer and innumerable coyotes with it myself and it now serves that function with my son and his wife. She tagged her first mule deer with it recently as well. If you can see it, you can kill it with those old buckhorn sights. Thanks again.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 03-24-2014, 10:38 AM
Herknav Herknav is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Waypoint 0
Posts: 726
Likes: 330
Liked 303 Times in 131 Posts
Default

Love the article, but I'm curious why being hammerless causes it to have a fast ignition.
__________________
Where's my dad's America?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-24-2014, 11:35 AM
RobertJ.'s Avatar
RobertJ. RobertJ. is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seaside, Oregon
Posts: 6,371
Likes: 25,162
Liked 12,664 Times in 3,820 Posts
Default

Excellent article! That's always been one of my favorite rifles, and I've still never owned one.

My dad had a 99f in .308 when I was a kid in Alaska, and it was the first high powered rifle I shot. I was 10 years old, and that was pretty big stuff to me!

My dad's friend Floyd Clift killed a large brown bear with a 99 in .300 Savage, with one shot to the back of the head. Not being a true "bear gun", I think I too would have rather killed it when it wasn't looking!

I've been looking to add one of these to my collection. I want an older one in .30-30 Winchester, and I haven't seen any recently.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:04 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,991
Liked 51,950 Times in 6,162 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herknav View Post
Love the article, but I'm curious why being hammerless causes it to have a fast ignition.
Good question. The technical term for the time from trigger release to firing is "lock time." This is a very old term that dates from guns with "locks" which had swinging hammers. At any rate, in a typical hammered gun, the trigger releases the hammer, which then has to swing in an arc to hit a firing pin, which in turn is propelled a short distance to set off the primer. In some cases, like the Colt single action revolver, the firing pin is mounted on the hammer. Hammer swing takes some noticeable time, even if measured in fractions of a second.

In a true hammerless design, the firing pin is directly propelled forward by a strong spring for a very short distance after it is released by sear. The time from trigger pull to ignition is thus usually (comparatively) very short. Why does this matter? When aiming, you want the gun to discharge as quickly as possible after the trigger is pulled, to minimize the normal movement of the gun during lock time. This is particularly important when the gun is used offhand on game.

Interestingly, the Savage 99 has what the factory calls a "hammer." It's not. In fact, it's a simple firing pin with a heavier section at its rear to give it good momentum as it's propelled forward with a strong internal spring. This firing pin is cocked as the bolt moves forward in its last inch of travel. After its release, its quick lock time can only be measured in small fractions of a second. The 99's feature of cock-on-closing is an advantage, as the weight of the spring does not have to be overcome as the spent case is extracted and ejected - it gives a faster and more positive lever opening action.

Hope this helps.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:12 PM
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,777
Likes: 3,438
Liked 17,721 Times in 3,001 Posts
Default

Great article! In the 1990s 99 Savage rifles could be picked up for $200-350. Not anymore. They are one of my favorites. I also like that you can decock the gun by dropping the lever a little then holding the trigger back just as you reclose the lever. Then recock it again by working the lever up and down about an inch. This doesn't work on the tang safety guns. Mine is a 1948 EG .300, and a 1955 Featherweight .243 that my dad carved around 1960. There's a .30-30 for sale locally just like Eltioloco's for $650, but with finish and wood wear.




Last edited by Wyatt Burp; 03-24-2014 at 12:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:26 PM
Herknav Herknav is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Waypoint 0
Posts: 726
Likes: 330
Liked 303 Times in 131 Posts
Default

Thanks for the explanation, John. I was reading "hammerless" as "concealed hammer." Now, I know better.
__________________
Where's my dad's America?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:32 PM
Vulcan Bob's Avatar
Vulcan Bob Vulcan Bob is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: central pa
Posts: 5,335
Likes: 2,745
Liked 2,493 Times in 1,182 Posts
Default

Nice article to be sure. I've always admired the 99 for its looks alone. Finally picked up a well used but well taken care of 1949 EG in .300 Savage. Unfortunately it was drilled and tapped for a scope but I got a killer deal on it. Scrounged up a nice vintage Texas made Weaver K-4 with dot reticule to put on it to cover up the screw holes. It shoots rather well with factory ammo. I took it down for clean up and found it interesting that the stock and forearm are numbered to the gun.
__________________
Stay safe people!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:55 PM
gregintenn gregintenn is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lafayette, Tennessee
Posts: 6,925
Likes: 6,833
Liked 8,947 Times in 2,913 Posts
Default

Great article as always. You've done a good job covering one of my favorite rifles, as well as a very interesting character in Arthur Savage.

Not to knitpick, but you did ask for suggestions and corrections; I would add aluminum to the list of materials used to make the magazine rotors. I have examples with brass, color case hardened steel, as well as aluminum rotors.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:59 PM
A10's Avatar
A10 A10 is offline
SWCA Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sadly, Seattle WA
Posts: 11,202
Likes: 25,366
Liked 11,512 Times in 4,719 Posts
Default

Thanks for the opportunity to preview your article, John. It was great, as always!

I never realized that Savage was such an interesting character, a sort of Renaissance Man of the late 19th century.
__________________
Even older, even crankier....
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-24-2014, 01:43 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,991
Liked 51,950 Times in 6,162 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregintenn View Post
Great article as always. You've done a good job covering one of my favorite rifles, as well as a very interesting character in Arthur Savage.

Not to knitpick, but you did ask for suggestions and corrections; I would add aluminum to the list of materials used to make the magazine rotors. I have examples with brass, color case hardened steel, as well as aluminum rotors.
You are quite correct. I just modified the OP to reflect this. Interestingly, my model EG (1951) has a steel rotary follower. My understanding is that aluminum was introduced during WWII due to brass shortage. Evidently Savage used whatever stocks were on hand after the war, and experimented with both steel and case-hardened versions. Because of this intermixing and overlapping, there is no clear-cut "change date" for any of this. It's a lot like S&W during the post-WWII transitions; existing parts were not to be wasted, and whatever stock was on hand was often used. Winchester did the same thing, and often substituted parts like buttplates from other guns simply because they were on hand and would fit. No rhyme or reason that could be called a pattern.

Good point. Thanks.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 03-24-2014, 01:52 PM
Art Doc's Avatar
Art Doc Art Doc is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 49
Liked 13,434 Times in 3,300 Posts
Default

Not sure I would agree that the 300 Savage equals the 30-'06. I think the 300S is much closer to the 308W in power.

Where might this piece be published?

I like the lines of the 99. Very futuristic when it was designed.

I like my really old one.

__________________
No life story has happy end.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 03-24-2014, 01:55 PM
cmort666's Avatar
cmort666 cmort666 is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Rocky River, OH, USA
Posts: 9,448
Likes: 1,271
Liked 9,192 Times in 3,622 Posts
Default

It's interesting that unlike the Winchester 1895, it was never chambered for .30-06 or the bigger cartridges like the .405 Winchester.

I was surprised to see that it had been chambered in .38-55, a cartridge which I find interesting, but for which I've never owned a firearm. A Savage 99 chambered for .38-55, loaded with jacketed spitzer bullets would be VERY interesting as a big game rifle.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #27  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:08 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,991
Liked 51,950 Times in 6,162 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxonPig View Post
Not sure I would agree that the 300 Savage equals the 30-'06. I think the 300S is much closer to the 308W in power.

Where might this piece be published?

I like the lines of the 99. Very futuristic when it was designed.

I like my really old one.
Check the OP - I said the .300 Savage "almost rivaled" the .30-06. The same could be said for the .308, which was derived originally from the .300 Savage. Velocity with the same weight bullets typically run around 200-300 fps less than a .30-06. A deer will never notice the difference within 300 yards.

The article will probably be published in a future Blue Press, the catalog/magazine put out monthly by Dillon Precision. Interestingly, the Blue Press has the second highest circulation for a gun publication, second only the American Rifleman. Subscriptions are free and can be initiated online or by telephone, 1-800-223-4570.

It also will have a chance to be included in a possible book on classic firearms - that's still in the formulative stage.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Last edited by PALADIN85020; 03-24-2014 at 02:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #28  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:13 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,991
Liked 51,950 Times in 6,162 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmort666 View Post
It's interesting that unlike the Winchester 1895, it was never chambered for .30-06 or the bigger cartridges like the .405 Winchester.

I was surprised to see that it had been chambered in .38-55, a cartridge which I find interesting, but for which I've never owned a firearm. A Savage 99 chambered for .38-55, loaded with jacketed spitzer bullets would be VERY interesting as a big game rifle.
Before the demise of the Model 99, it's believed Savage made a few experimental models with a longer receiver and action so as to accommodate .30-06-length cartridges. This never came to pass as a production gun.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #29  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:42 PM
wbraswell's Avatar
wbraswell wbraswell is offline
SWCA Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Texas
Posts: 6,681
Likes: 3,273
Liked 6,632 Times in 2,553 Posts
Default

Great article, John. I really like the EG you pictured. I love my post-war 99F in .308. I sure wish I would have bought ones in .358 and .375 Win. while they were still reasonable.
__________________
Wayne
Torn & Frayed
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:51 PM
cmort666's Avatar
cmort666 cmort666 is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Rocky River, OH, USA
Posts: 9,448
Likes: 1,271
Liked 9,192 Times in 3,622 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
Before the demise of the Model 99, it's believed Savage made a few experimental models with a longer receiver and action so as to accommodate .30-06-length cartridges. This never came to pass as a production gun.

John
Do you know if the Savage 99 had the sort of extraction issues that the Winchester 95 is supposed to have? That's allegedly one of the things which doomed it as anything but an emergency substitute military rifle (eg. the Russian 7.62x54mmR guns).
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:07 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,991
Liked 51,950 Times in 6,162 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmort666 View Post
Do you know if the Savage 99 had the sort of extraction issues that the Winchester 95 is supposed to have? That's allegedly one of the things which doomed it as anything but an emergency substitute military rifle (eg. the Russian 7.62x54mmR guns).
No extraction issues as far as I know. As I mentioned, Arthur Savage designed the 99 to cock on closing to keep extraction resistance to a minimum. The Model 99 can be operated very rapidly for this reason.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:56 PM
shouldazagged shouldazagged is offline
Absent Comrade
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 19,337
Likes: 53,737
Liked 38,399 Times in 11,803 Posts
Default

I've wanted one for many years. A .243 or .30-30 would be nice, but I wish they had made them in .257 Roberts or 7X57.
__________________
Oh well, what the hell.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-24-2014, 04:23 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,361
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,170 Times in 7,411 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpo View Post
>t was one of only two lever actions that could accommodate spitzer (pointed) bullets<

When you say, "WAS", are you referring to "back in 1899", only?

'Cause the Winchester 95, the Savage 99, the Winchester 88 and the Browning BLR are all lever guns that will take spitzers, and that adds up to more than two.

You forgot the short lived Sako Finnwolf. I think it was inspired by the Win. 88.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-24-2014, 05:11 PM
gregintenn gregintenn is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lafayette, Tennessee
Posts: 6,925
Likes: 6,833
Liked 8,947 Times in 2,913 Posts
Default



Here's one in particular that I'm quite proud of. My father had bought it a while back and restocked it. Much to my surprise, he gave it to me for a birthday present last year.

Although it's nearing a hundred year old, I learned that it still works as well as ever.
tiger_zpsc210ad7d.png Photo by gregintenn | Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt209/gregintenn/tiger_zpsc210ad7d.p@@AMEPARAM@@612.photobucket.com/albums/tt209/gregintenn/tiger_zpsc210ad7d.p
According to this gentleman, the 22 high power makes a great tiger rifle.

I am not aware of another rifle that could easily be mistaken for a 99 Savage. That, and the fact they were available in so many different configurations and calibers makes them interesting to me.

Last edited by gregintenn; 03-24-2014 at 05:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #35  
Old 03-24-2014, 05:27 PM
4506517's Avatar
4506517 4506517 is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 2,233
Likes: 2,933
Liked 3,226 Times in 1,094 Posts
Default

I have a Model 99 in .300 Savage. My father bought it brand new in the early 50s. One of my most treasured guns.
__________________
Un-Reconstructed Southerner
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #36  
Old 03-24-2014, 05:42 PM
Harrison Harrison is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 2,701
Likes: 9,576
Liked 2,100 Times in 870 Posts
Thumbs up

Very good article. I have a beautiful (to me anyway) Mdl 99 made in 1949, 24" barrel, in 250 Savage. It is very accurate for the first 3-4 rounds and starts stringing after the barrel warms up. I have taken a good number of deer with it. The rifle balances and handles like a dream. In my opinion, the 99 is far superior to your Mdl 94s and Mdl 336s.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-24-2014, 05:46 PM
jimmyj's Avatar
jimmyj jimmyj is online now
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DUNNELLON, FLORIDA USA
Posts: 11,665
Likes: 1,781
Liked 17,778 Times in 4,635 Posts
Default

In the era of 1955 my best friend's Father gave Him the Fathers hunting weapons. 1. Stevens 12ga DBL with exposed hammers, a Winchester M12 20ga, and a Savage M99 30/30 with the steel curved butt plate. The Savage was one, if not the most wicked recoiling rifle I have ever shot. In 1962 I traded into a Savage M99 .308 rifle. Great shooting rifle.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-24-2014, 06:06 PM
jinx's Avatar
jinx jinx is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,090
Likes: 1,304
Liked 999 Times in 459 Posts
Default

What a great history lesson. Always enjoy your posts.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-24-2014, 06:52 PM
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,777
Likes: 3,438
Liked 17,721 Times in 3,001 Posts
Default

My dad's favorite rifle was his pre 64 Winchester Model 88 in .284 Winchester. Kind of like a short action .270 (.280, actually). I own it now but I still like the Savages much better.


Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #40  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:50 PM
Art Doc's Avatar
Art Doc Art Doc is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 49
Liked 13,434 Times in 3,300 Posts
Default

Maybe picking nits but I would not compare it to the 06 if it's much closer to the 308.
__________________
No life story has happy end.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:57 PM
rock doc's Avatar
rock doc rock doc is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NW OH
Posts: 2,082
Likes: 3,394
Liked 2,492 Times in 827 Posts
Default

Here's a great web site for Savage literature:

Savage 1895, 1899, and 99

and some useful links to features.
__________________
Inconsistently consistent
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-24-2014, 11:15 PM
Cyrano's Avatar
Cyrano Cyrano is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,579
Likes: 13,500
Liked 6,751 Times in 2,528 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post

It also will have a chance to be included in a possible book on classic firearms - that's still in the formulative stage.

John
Hallelula!! A compilation of your articles on classic firearms? Mark me down for a copy.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-25-2014, 01:43 AM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,991
Liked 51,950 Times in 6,162 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxonPig View Post
Maybe picking nits but I would not compare it to the 06 if it's much closer to the 308.
You are right, of course, but at the time the .300 Savage was born (1921) the .308 did not exist, and comparisons at the time were all with the well-known .30-06. That's the historical time niche I'm trying to re-create here. Point taken, though.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #44  
Old 03-25-2014, 06:26 AM
nsl nsl is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Liked 106 Times in 49 Posts
Default

I bought a nice 99f 308 three weeks ago at Gander Mt of all places for $500 + tax. I was shocked they didn't have it marked much higher as GM is always very high on their stuff.

Now I want one in 30-30. The other cartridges are to hard to find and expensive, hince why I bought a 308 and want the 30-30.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #45  
Old 03-25-2014, 07:03 AM
alwslate alwslate is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Indiana
Posts: 7,311
Likes: 4,336
Liked 8,486 Times in 3,468 Posts
Default

Great article John. I have one 99 that dates to 1941. It's an EG model
like the one you pictured in .300 Savage. I think the comparisons of
the .300 ballistics to the 30-06 were based on factory specs of the
.300 in long barrels like the 24" EGs and the early 30-06 loads like
the military 150 gr FMJ issue. The standard 150 gr load as used in
the M1 will not even reach 2700 fps in most guns and so the 150 gr
.300 Savage ammo was quite close to the mild military round.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-25-2014, 12:39 PM
gregintenn gregintenn is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lafayette, Tennessee
Posts: 6,925
Likes: 6,833
Liked 8,947 Times in 2,913 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nsl View Post
I bought a nice 99f 308 three weeks ago at Gander Mt of all places for $500 + tax. I was shocked they didn't have it marked much higher as GM is always very high on their stuff.

Now I want one in 30-30. The other cartridges are to hard to find and expensive, hince why I bought a 308 and want the 30-30.
300 Savage is still commonly found. Our local Academy Sports stocks it.
22hp, 250-3000, and 303 Savage is less commonly found, but is still loaded and sold by commercial manufacturers.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-25-2014, 09:09 PM
bigolddave bigolddave is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rockford, IL
Posts: 834
Likes: 1,638
Liked 1,068 Times in 327 Posts
Default

I hate to add one more nit pick, but there were actually something less than a million 99's produced. The serial numbers go over one million, but there are significant gaps in the serial number sequence.

I have had an interest in 99's for many years, but just started collecting them about six years ago. The quality and variety of models make for a very interesting collection. I have an 1895, and nine others, including a 250/3000 that was delivered to the corporate secretary at the time, and a T in 30/30, that is very hard to find.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-25-2014, 10:41 PM
Faulkner's Avatar
Faulkner Faulkner is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Posts: 6,503
Likes: 7,835
Liked 36,376 Times in 3,893 Posts
Default

Interestingly, before reading this article I had never given a Savage 99 a second look. Just so happens, though, I was in Vicksburg, Mississippi, this week and went on a tour of the Warren County Courthouse museum. Very interesting place by the way.

Anyway, in one of the display cases I noticed the Savage 99 pictured below that was a gift from Theodore Roosevelt. I snapped a picture of it and the notice beside it.



__________________
- Change it back -
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #49  
Old 03-26-2014, 11:57 AM
L Pete L Pete is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 665
Likes: 16
Liked 383 Times in 213 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxonPig View Post
Maybe picking nits but I would not compare it to the 06 if it's much closer to the 308.

There was no .308 at the time of the 300 Savage introduction...there weren't a lot of cartridges around then that we have now. I don't know why you fellers are picking on the 300 Savage, when all you have to do is think "Context, ......Context". It's not about now, it's about then...........
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #50  
Old 03-26-2014, 03:24 PM
mtgianni mtgianni is offline
Member
History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99 History of the Savage Model 99  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW MT
Posts: 7,471
Likes: 12,048
Liked 6,982 Times in 3,426 Posts
Default

Great article. I have wanted to read more on Arthur Savages life since I read a chapter out of something called "histories of the gunmakers"? Would you mind sharing sources on his life or is there a book written you are aware of?
__________________
Front sight and squeeze
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply


Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Savage Model 14 and 114 fyimo Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics 12 11-10-2021 06:13 PM
SPF!!! Savage 32acp with History Letter! policerevolvercollector GUNS - For Sale or Trade 0 05-25-2016 10:55 PM
Savage Model 19 CZU Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics 3 05-02-2016 06:07 PM
SAVAGE 1920 Bolt Rifle 250-3000 aka 250 Savage Wounded Knee Floyd GUNS - For Sale or Trade 3 07-25-2013 08:51 PM
What is this Savage with model 899 squecky Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics 3 09-19-2011 07:01 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:49 PM.


© 2000-2025 smith-wessonforum.com All rights reserved worldwide.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)