Talo - Deceptive Marketing

Over at the Ruger forums someone noted that the new Talo website was up and we had noticed that the Wiley Clapp GP100 that was advertised in 2011 as a limited 2,000 run was now being listed as 4,800+. It was even advertised in American Rifleman as being a limited number that year, I still have the article. Some of us who bought the revolver are a little upset by what we’re hearing from Talo:
Wiley Clapp GP100 1752 ? TALO Distributors Inc

“Early TALO disclosures noted only 2000 would be made. The fact is that more than 4800 have been produced to date. The misinformation is the result of our not keeping track of the total and the factory continued to produce to demand. We regret our part in the miscommunication.“

Well I’m not a collector by any means. I didn’t purchase the revolver to store and collect but I did pay a premium for it as I had believed it was 1 of 2,000. I felt it was worth spending the extra money to have something a little more unique than the average GP100 and now feel like I have been lied to.

I own two other Talo guns which were also advertised as limited runs. One is a Ruger 10/22 Classic V rifle. It was limited to only 1,500. Well I started searching around and found out that it was limited at first and then because of the success they decided to just continue making them and can still be ordered.

... So that’s two guns they’ve lied about.

Decided to contact them directly and here’s the email I got back from Bob Coyle.



This is really shady business to me. I remember back when Lipsey's and Lew Horton would offer limited runs, they were numbered and recorded. How is it that we're in 2015 and Talo can't keep track of what gets sent out? These are firearms for crying out loud, not jelly beans.

I don't think I'll be purchasing another Talo gun, ever.

I have bought a few of the Lipsey's Specials. (I believe Lipsey's is part of the TALO group, aren't they?) I would have to go back and check, but I believe the advertising on at least one of these (Birdshead Vaquero in .45 ACP) stated there would be a limited initial production run, presumably leaving the door open for future production if demand was there.

They should keep their word, period. At least the guy who replied owned up to it absent sniveling excuses.

Now that's been said, I've never thought of Ruger Talo editions as having any collectors value. Do they?

I have a Ruger Talo Mark III. The reason I bought it was because it had a shorter threaded barrel for a can than standard Ruger models. It came with a ridiculous bird cage flash suppressor. I'm surprised they were able to sell many with that stupid thing hanging off the muzzle. Tossed the flash suppressor in the garbage can, but maybe I should have saved it as a collectors piece.

I had a Colt New Agent TALO edition, and it was a bit nicer than the standard version. I paid a few bucks more, but sold it for the same price. Collectible? Maybe, maybe not, but it wouldn't have mattered if a few 1,000 more had been produced.

OP ... You posted Coyle's response ... how about posting your original email to him? The title of "Talo Deceptive Marketing & Advertising" seems somewhat confrontational from the outset.

"Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.” ― Napoléon Bonaparte

On genuine collectibles, shouldn't each unit be marked 1/2000, 2/2000, 3/2000, etc?

I was pretty upset when I ran out and bought a TR 22-4 and thought there was only going to be 300 of those made, and the S/Ns just kept rolling on.
If I had waited, I wouldn't have had to send it back to S&W to get the front sight changed so poa and poi would at least closely coincide with 230gr fmj.

mc5aw said:

OP ... You posted Coyle's response ... how about posting your original email to him? The title of "Talo Deceptive Marketing & Advertising" seems somewhat confrontational from the outset.

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Sure. Here's my original email to Talo. I just copied/paste here:

I'm writing to let you guys know I will never purchase another Talo gun. I'm through with the deceptive marketing/advertising tactics and "limited edition" runs that you say are numbered and yet your company does not even keep track of what gets sent out. Do you guys seriously run a shop that doesn't keep track of every firearm that goes through distributors ordering from you? This is somewhat careless and irresponsible don't you think?

I own a few Talo guns. One is a Wiley Clapp GP100 in matte stainless. Originally advertised as a 2,000 run. Your website now quotes that over 4,800 have been made due to your own error. I also bought a Ruger 10/22 Classic V with stainless barrel. Advertised to have a 1,500 limited run. It's strange that it's not even listed on your website but the Classic VI is there. My own research has shown that new one's are still being made and that the initial 1,500 is no longer true.

My opinion right now is that your company TALO, Inc. is a joke. All of you should be ashamed. I'll never purchase anything with your name again.

357-RevolverGuy said:

Sure. Here's my original email to Talo. I just copied/paste here:

I'm writing to let you guys know I will never purchase another Talo gun. I'm through with the deceptive marketing/advertising tactics and "limited edition" runs that you say are numbered and yet your company does not even keep track of what gets sent out. Do you guys seriously run a shop that doesn't keep track of every firearm that goes through distributors ordering from you? This is somewhat careless and irresponsible don't you think?

I own a few Talo guns. One is a Wiley Clapp GP100 in matte stainless. Originally advertised as a 2,000 run. Your website now quotes that over 4,800 have been made due to your own error. I also bought a Ruger 10/22 Classic V with stainless barrel. Advertised to have a 1,500 limited run. It's strange that it's not even listed on your website but the Classic VI is there. My own research has shown that new one's are still being made and that the initial 1,500 is no longer true.

My opinion right now is that your company TALO, Inc. is a joke. All of you should be ashamed. I'll never purchase anything with your name again.

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I think you could have a been more diplomatic, and possibly been offered something in return for the company's error.

mc5aw said:

I think you could have a been more diplomatic, and possibly been offered something in return for the company's error.

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Maybe I should have but I just wanted them to know it was unacceptable and wrong. My intention wasn't to try and get something back. I would just like for them to take things more seriously and not be such goof ups on something as simple as keeping record. In today's world it's not like someone is doing it by hand. I'm sure it's all computers.

I still think the one's I own are great firearms but it's not fair to deceive someone into thinking they have a limited run when it's not. I still won't ever buy another though. For the price I think it will be better to buy a factory gun and just spend the extra money modifying it myself.

Deceptive Practices

Oftentimes, when a company advertises something as a "limited" production run, what they are saying is that they will make as many of the item as they have orders for. So, in effect, the "limited" part of promotion means that they will satisfy the total demand, or at least, satisfy those who put up their money.

You are right: being charged a premium for a one-in-two thousand gun which is really one in nearly five thousand is a rip-off as the company charges a premium for a scarcity and demand that does not exist. I'd sue the *******s.

I always assume any limited edition run is limited to the amount they can sell. To run a business any other way would be kind of silly. I might pay extra for features I want, but I don't buy new guns as an investment hoping they decide not to make any more.

Are TALO guns really that special?

357-RevolverGuy said:

Maybe I should have but I just wanted them to know it was unacceptable and wrong. My intention wasn't to try and get something back. I would just like for them to take things more seriously and not be such goof ups on something as simple as keeping record. In today's world it's not like someone is doing it by hand. I'm sure it's all computers.

I still think the one's I own are great firearms but it's not fair to deceive someone into thinking they have a limited run when it's not. I still won't ever buy another though. For the price I think it will be better to buy a factory gun and just spend the extra money modifying it myself.

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Worth mentioning is that I don't disagree with you. An item you purchased was described as a limited run, and thusly priced accordingly. I think it might have been a case of TALO initiating a limited "exclusive", then monitoring how well or poorly it sold. I've seen TALOs that are very nice, and others that are merely pedestrian. There are some models that cannot be had elsewhere, such as the Ruger Kodiak, so buyers are at the mercy of their buying interests and TALO's offerings.

The TALO specials usually have some basic enhancements that increase their useability. The Wiley Clapp GP100's are a perfect example take a 3" fixed sight add better sights knock off a few sharp edges and you have a much better combat revolver. They always seemed to be available for only a slight premium over a standard and IMO were meant to be used not collected.

As far as the Lipsey's go, I ordered one of the .44 Spl. Blackhawks when they were first announced. Waited awhile for it. I've found out since that they have done three more runs of them and new ones are still in the pipeline.

Mack said:

The TALO specials usually have some basic enhancements that increase their useability. The Wiley Clapp GP100's are a perfect example take a 3" fixed sight add better sights knock off a few sharp edges and you have a much better combat revolver. They always seemed to be available for only a slight premium over a standard and IMO were meant to be used not collected.

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Frankly, I had no idea it was a TALO or anything limited in production. I bought it for its features. Has a great DA pull. Makes a nice bedside gun.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

357-RevolverGuy said:

Over at the Ruger forums someone noted that the new Talo website was up and we had noticed that the Wiley Clapp GP100 that was advertised in 2011 as a limited 2,000 run was now being listed as 4,800+. It was even advertised in American Rifleman as being a limited number that year, I still have the article. Some of us who bought the revolver are a little upset by what we’re hearing from Talo:
Wiley Clapp GP100 1752 ? TALO Distributors Inc

“Early TALO disclosures noted only 2000 would be made. The fact is that more than 4800 have been produced to date. The misinformation is the result of our not keeping track of the total and the factory continued to produce to demand. We regret our part in the miscommunication.“

Well I’m not a collector by any means. I didn’t purchase the revolver to store and collect but I did pay a premium for it as I had believed it was 1 of 2,000. I felt it was worth spending the extra money to have something a little more unique than the average GP100 and now feel like I have been lied to.

I own two other Talo guns which were also advertised as limited runs. One is a Ruger 10/22 Classic V rifle. It was limited to only 1,500. Well I started searching around and found out that it was limited at first and then because of the success they decided to just continue making them and can still be ordered.

... So that’s two guns they’ve lied about.

Decided to contact them directly and here’s the email I got back from Bob Coyle.



This is really shady business to me. I remember back when Lipsey's and Lew Horton would offer limited runs, they were numbered and recorded. How is it that we're in 2015 and Talo can't keep track of what gets sent out? These are firearms for crying out loud, not jelly beans.

I don't think I'll be purchasing another Talo gun, ever.

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LIP SERVICE. Probably their standard boilerplate response. I think your email was spot on and they know it.
vinny
RVN 67-68

The Executive Director for Talo uses a gmail email box for business correspondence? Not that it is necessarily bad but a little surprising.

wheelgunguy said:

The Executive Director for Talo uses a gmail email box for business correspondence? Not that it is necessarily bad but a little surprising.

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I sent the message through their "contact us" form on their website. I guess it sends it to his personal email.

Also just to let others know I am not upset about it being a collector gun or not. That's not the point. I feel I paid what it was worth to me. It's more about the business practice of being able to keep your word and stand by it. That's what I would respect had they done so.

My thoughts on TALO, in no particular order: (1) Since TALO is not an actual gun distributor with its own "shop" or warehouses, but a group of independent distributors that make special purchases, it is difficult to know who keeps track of what. It is without doubt that no one seemed to care about keeping up the TALO website until perhaps recently. (2) TALO runs are meant to be different from regularly cataloged items, and often the differences simply do not appeal to me. (3) Gun stores who buy the TALO item from one of the member distributors that makes up the TALO group can charge whatever they want and tell whatever story they want in support thereof. (4) To the extent TALO promised only a certain number of guns in a particular variation, they SHOULD HAVE honored their word. (5) The reason some guy with "TALO" uses gmail is not surprising since TALO is simply not a stand alone distributor. It is a separate corporation, but it simply has no warehouse, no retail outlet, no sales people, no shipping department, etc. They make group orders that are shipped to the member distributors that choose to participate in the particular run.

From the TALO website:

"About TALO

TALO is a wholesale buying cooperative that was started in 1965 by fishing and hunting wholesalers in Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma. TALO commissions limited editions of firearms from Smith & Wesson, Colt, Glock, Ruger, and North American Arms and distributes them to a stocking sporting goods dealers across the US. Dealers should contact their local dealer and ask them to order a special edition from a TALO wholesaler."

Note also that TALO now includes several distributors from states outside the original core group.

Thus, TALO is a separately incorporated company that likely has no assets of its own.