Nazi Hi Power stamps and numbers

Gentlemen,

While looking at a pawn shop today for S&Ws, I ran across a Nazi marked FN Hi-Power for sale. I'm trying to research it's manufacture date, but Google searches have been somewhat confusing. Hopefully someone here can help me out, or maybe point me to a good resource.

The gun has the typical FN marking on the slide, along with the Nazi proof marks of an eagle and wba140 on the slide and the frame. My searches have turned up a lot of references to waa140, but not wba140. Is this a rarer acceptance mark?

The serial number is a low 2 digit one, 47a, which I think means it was made in early 1943. Is this correct?

The serial number is on the frame and the barrel, but not on the magazine (the mag looks newer than the gun, so I assume it's not original). The gun has a fixed rear sight (earlier ones were tangent I think) and does not have a slot for a shoulder stock. The stocks are checkered wood, which I think are original. The finish is original with some wear, but in decent condition.

So, how close am I on a date? What ballpark value do these have and does the 2 digit serial number make a difference?

Thanks for any help, or for pointing me in the right direction.

TRE

I wouldn't worry too much about Waffen marks. I've never come upon a rare one, if there is such a thing. When it comes to pawn shops, I would be all over it for $500 or less. They are into it for much less than that. As the price escalates above $500, I would tend to back off more and more. You can find real deals at pawn shops if you are dealing with the right one. If the shop has $1000 or more on it, I would tell the owner to put it on Gun Broker. Around here, there is a very limited amount of money people are willing/able to pay for guns which is the reason good deals can be found at the LGS and pawn shop.

I believe what you have is a post German occupation, FN production Hi-Power. Still made during WW2, but after the Germans abandon the FN plant.

You don't mention a ser# on the slide,,that is common to these pistols, Where as the War-time German occupation made pistols were ser#'s on the frame, slide and the bbl.
I'm not sure the magazine(s) were ser#'d or not.
Some post WW2 Police contract HP's have matching #'d magazines but I can't recall if the WW2 pistols did or not,,drawing a blank on that point!

These post occupation pistols were produced from left over parts when the Germans abandon the FN plant. Tons of parts were left and the machinery mostly in tact.
The work force put the H/P and the 1922 Model back into production by assembleing pistols from parts at first then gradually got the entire factory back on line.
The ser# chosen for the H/P pistols made post occupation would all have an 'a' suffix and start at #1. (As would the Model 1922).

Most had the outside German Military mrkings defaced in some form or another,,some not. Internal parts usually show original markings.
The production was non slotted, fixed site pistols,,no mgazine safety and generally wooden grips. (Bakelite grips had been an alternate grip on the H/P all along but never a full substitute on the occupation production guns).

The last waffenamp insp mark during occupation production at the plant was WaA140.
A marking of Wab140, or WaB140, ect may be the result of the original being defaced on the part(s) originally as was done post occupation.
..Or it could very well be an aftermarket addition done sometime through the years by someone thinking that the 'Nazi pistol needed Nazi markings' ,,and added them,,the wrong one at that.
Just my guesses of course.

Those post occupation pistols started to be assembled in Oct 1944. They were freely given to GI's who were guarding the FN plant. Others were sold to souvenier seeking soldiers, Brits, Belgians, Allied soldiers from all over.

The Belgian gov't finally restored some order to the 'pistols--free for the asking' situation at the plant by the January of 1945.
The Belgian govt took delivery of most all of them (HP's and Model 1922) after that date with the Dutch govt getting in on some available pistols as well.

The 'A' suffix post occupation production pistols using the parts up from German occupation production lasted from late '44 till some time in 1946. During that time the FN plant gradually started making 'new; parts as they were needed to assemble the pistols,,but the early 'a' sufffix guns were entirely of Occupation made parts.

If you're inquiring because of curiosity, OK.

If you're inquiring out of interest in buying it....don't snooze, because if its reasonably priced it may be gone when you get back.

Post the info over on the 1911 forum in the BHP section and submoa will help you out.

Wba is a meaningless abbreviation. WaA stood for Waffen Amt. Possibly someone applied it to the pistol to show it wasn't of Nazi manufacture.

Others obviously know more than I do, but I can confirm that occupation HP's had only three Waffenamt stamps: first WaA613, then WaA103, and then for the longest stretch, from around December 1941 on, WaA140, to the end. If the gun you're looking at had unequivocal WaA140 stamps, the low a-suffix serial would place it in about May 1943.

Thanks for the input everyone, I'm gonna keep reading and researching this one, it intrigues me.

TRE

Pictures would help,
but have in mind that stamps can be bought by unscrupulous dealers.



Like here..

Stamps for german weapons - period to 1945 - Waffenamt shop

Qball said:

Pictures would help,
but have in mind that stamps can be bought by unscrupulous dealers.
.........
Like here..

Stamps for german weapons - period to 1945 - Waffenamt shop

Click to expand...

Ha. That outfit is unbelievable. Looks good quality, too.

You can see where the money is. Nazis sell. The American page appears empty yet. Aspiring Victory forgers will have to wait for the U.S. NAVY stamp .

I went back and looked at the Hi Power again today.

I was wrong, the acceptance stamps are waa140. The magazine also matches and has the acceptance stamp. The bore is also pristine.

It's a very interesting piece and I am so intrigued by it.

Decisions, decisions.

TRE

Depending on condition, that magazine would sell anywhere from 175-250.

So, what's the asking price? Inquiring minds wanna know!

I looked at one of these in a pawn shop a couple months ago. Don't remember the SN but it had the Nazis eagle stamp and the research I did indicated mid WWII timeframe manufacture; might have been one of the post war parts guns though for all I know. It was in decent condition but with a newer magazine. Just as an fyi for comparison with the one you're looking at, it was priced at $999 which I thought was reasonable. Talked myself out of buying it but did watch it for awhile and it lasted about two months before someone bought it at an unknown price. My experience with Lugers and other WWII era firearms has not been great; so much to know, so many mistakes to make. Good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

KEN L,

They're asking a buck under a grand for it, which according to 22hipowers post may not be out of the realm of reason for it. Plus, I've dealt with these guys a lot and there'll be some wiggle room.

On the other hand, there is a gunshow this weekend that I'm going to and there will probably be Smiths there to be had for that same money. I always need more Smiths as my bucket list is nowhere near completed yet.

I'm going to go look at the Hi-Power one more time tomorrow and either pull the trigger or let it go.

Thanks for all the input everyone.

TRE

I went and looked at the Hi-Power again and made my decision.

For a couple of reasons, I'd rather not discus it further here. I will however PM a couple of forum members that I have been in contact with regarding this gun.

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful input and help.

TRE