Is anyone building quality reproduction standard Lugers in 9mm for less than the real thing? I cannot afford $3,000 for a gun that I am afraid to shoot for impairing the value on. Do not want the 22 reproductions that I have seen, but if that is all there really is...

Thank you

Rick - I saw this article.

Gun Review: Mitchell Arms P-08 9mm Parabellum: 'Why aren't they selling?' - Guns.com

I've also seen mention that Mauser made some a few years ago.

Jim

Thank you, the manufacturer suggested retail price of the Mitchell Lugers is double the real thing. The cost of making Lugers appears to have gone up a few times over the last century.

With careful shopping, you can find a perfectly acceptable original P08 in the low four figures ($1000-1500), even a little less if you don't mind mismatched parts. The market trend for such examples seems to be flat or lower over the past few years.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I would look for a shooter, they can be had anywhere from 8-12 hundred. You wouldn't want a collectible that you might end up breaking a part. It wouldn't be a collectible anymore, just an expensive shooter. I found the one below at Cabelas a few years ago for about 700. It was missing the sideplate but other than that all numbers were matching.


Added a sideplate later on from ebay(about 50 bucks) and the result was a pretty good shooter. I have since gotten an armorers sideplate(un-numbered) for it to make it more "correct". It will take some work with a small file to get it fitted.

You could also look for a 70's era Mauser, they seem to go for he same dollars as a "original" era shooter. Go join the Lugerforum and place a WTB, people looking for shooters have pretty good luck over there and those guys are top notch.

$1000 +/- should buy a very nice shooter Luger. There are still guns available in the $6/700 range but you are getting into reblued, poor bores and modern replacement magazines alot of the time.
Not that the last item is really bad,,the MegGar repro Luger mags work great and I use many of them. Just don't pay orig gun & mag price and be getting a $25 modern repop magazine with it.

30Luger cal Commercial Luger pistols usually go for a bit less than their 9mmL counterparts. Just an ammo supply and cost thing. If you reload who cares, they are fun.

Matched parts,,you pay more obviously. But for a shooter you can go happily along with a phonebook luger and have it shoot just as well.

Standard WW1 and WW2 Germany issue Military Lugers are the most common and a nothing special piece is what those starting prices usualy reflect.
Get into rare variations, Contract pieces from different countrys, some of the Commercial and exported versions,,then you go up in price quickly.,,and all you wanted was a Luger to shoot.

The 70's Mauser remake of the Luger kind of stands in the middle of the collector field. Many still put it in it's own separate catagory from 'original Luger'. Others just see them as a continuation of Mauser mfg'd Luger pistols. It's a collector thing.
In pristine condition and w/box ect,,those do command some pretty good $$. A shooter grade of most any of the common variations made,,and they produced quite a few before production stopped,,can usually be had for a lot less.
But still not a give away price and not much below what those 'original' Lugers in shooter condition can be found in if you hunt for one long enough. Big if.

The stainless steel Mitchell brand Lugers were made at a company called Aimco in Tx. Mitchell was a start up by former Hi-Standard employees and they used Aimco's mfg facilitys to make the parts. Mostly all investment cast parts which brings some instant criticism alone from many.
The early production pistols were pretty nice. But they did have some problems with parts breakage particularly the safety lever and the trigger (both inv cast).
Fit and finish was good, but certainly not up to 1908 DWM standards and that is what they got compared too.
Mitchell got their Luger project bought out by Stoeger after a couple yrs.
Stoeger still owned/owns the 'Luger' trademark in N/American.
Stoeger continued to have Aimco make the pistols but now they were marked 'Luger' on the side,,probably the white shirted few figured their trademarked name would make the pistol a bigger seller. It didn't.

Quality crashed quite a bit under the Stoeger ownership though there are still some nicely fit up guns with their name on them out there. The Stoeger made Mitchell Lugers were hard to service for the simple reason you couldn't get parts from them. A shop I did work for then used to refuse any of the Mitchell/Stoeger Lugers for that reason.

For a shooter, I'd look for a Military mfg'd pistol, Wouldn't worry too much if the bore wasn't pristine (but I realize that is a real deal breaker for some).
Worn orig finish,,expect that. They get that way going thru Wars and such.
I'd stay away from a heavily buffed and reblued pistol. Unless you're in to repair and tinkering with these,,the heavy refinish usually tells you ahead of time of some problems. Not always,,but it better be cheap to allow for the possibility!

Have fun,,everybody needs a Luger.

what they said

Ed Tinker

regardless of price, i wouldnt own anything but the real deal. it defeats the purpose in my mind.

My friend Robert Simpson currently has over 1000 Lugers in stock and in every price range. Check out Simpson LTD website.

I recently got a military Luger in very good condition, MOSTELY matching part numbers and 1 mag was also number correct and it came with the holster and mag loader.

Took it to a decent gun show and got it appraised. I told them (3 different dealers that knew they way around Lugers) it was not for sale but interested in price. They all came back with numbers between $1,200 to $1,600. FWIW I made it a point of not telling the dealers what the other dealers quoted to keep it honest.

Its a very good shooter, but like most older German guns it prefers a higher power load to function right!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

no offense, but mostly matching parts - is that like almost pregnant?

If its mismatched, unless say the grips or maybe a firing pin, it is a shooter and shooter price and most people won't pay above say, $1,000 for a mismatched, but nice looking WW2 luger. And that depends on the shooter, not a collector, as some would pay full price for one with a mismatched firing pin, but the vast majority of folks wouldn't.

Again, no offense, but unless you told them it was mismatched, that sounds like prices a dealer would tell you and most dealers aren't luger guys, or they are always very high, case in point, there was a ratty 1910 for years at the shows in the Philly area for $3500 and their comment was, its a 1910!

Did they take it completely apart or just look it over?

No offense taken. Its a shooter grade, I know that but in very nice condition. Nicer than most shooter grade I have seen.

I purposely brought it to the show to let one military collector look at it. He field stripped it and it had about 80% matching parts. It was Luftwaffe. He remarked about how good of condition it was in.

The other two saw me walking around with the holster and asked me you got anything in that holster? I told them yes and I had XXXXXX look it over. Both other dealers said can I look it it, and what did he tell you . I told them what he said but withheld price, that is how I came up with the 3 numbers in my first post. I have seen Luger's (shooter grade) from about $700 to $ 1200, at different shows and LGSs recently in my area.

FWIW price is just for my knowledge, I have no reason to sell this gun.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Simpson's is a great place to shop for a shooter. You can find them cheaper, but unless you're buying in person it's a crapshoot....except at Simpson's. Very detailed descriptions, lots of closeup photos and the sales people on the phone will pull the gun from inventory and describe it to you.

I got mine for $1200 and it was all matching, in very good shape, but had Swedish grips instead of original. I bought a couple of MecGar mags and it shoots just fine.

EXCEPT, don't expect Walther Q5 or 1911 triggers. The trigger on mine is fair at best and I believe that's a trait common to the gun. It ain't for bullseye. That said, it fun to shoot.

Another source to buy is the Luger forum. Really knowledgeable people, reading it is an education you should have before you buy and they have a good buy/sell classified section almost as good as the one here.

Pistole Parabellum

Finally, the advice I got there was look for an S42 1938 Mauser shooter. Better steel than WWI (which tend to be more fragile), not degraded by wartime production problems, and the best value.

Good luck

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DSCN1123.jpg (93.0 KB, 53 views)

Bore condition is one consideration most people look at. I bought a beautiful 1939 Mauser 42. It is very accurate and functions flawlessly. The bore is pitted tho. Frosty bore I mean.

OP;

I agree with all said above, especially if only looking for a shooter, and not worried about the collectable version. When I had my 41byf "Black Widow" (collectors term....nothing formal), it was all matching with a set of original black plastic Type 6 grips.

I like to shoot all that I own so I did the same as above, bought some MecGar mags, changed the grips for some well worn wooden ones found on flea-bay and had a great time shooting.

Definitely jump on the Jan Still Axis Power forum it is just like this forum.....you cannot help but learn every time you get on...even if you just lurk and hang out. I began to worry about broken springs, links, the toggle axle and all sorts of "matching number" parts so pulled out my Browning Hi-Power for shooting and put the Luger away. Then I went ahead and sold it on Armslist...had two hits the same day as listing and the first man bought it from out-of-State but moral is I don't think you can go wrong as long as you stick to your perceived price range...you will find it, you can shoot it, if you later worry about it, sell it and at minimum I'm sure you would break even.

Listen to Ed Tinker......I believe he wrote the book on Lugers.

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	top marks 1.JPG (28.8 KB, 54 views)

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Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

I too have a BYF41 with 3 correct magazines, and the original numbered wood stocks, plus the black plastic stocks, and a 41 dated holster with loading tool. I was told it is worth around $3500.00. I won't shoot it as I don't want to take a chance of breaking a numbered part. Have thought about selling it, but every time I take it out of the safe, I look at it, say nope, and put it back in the safe.

Sell it. You are missing all the fun of shooting a Luger out of fear. You can buy a brick and keep it in a box with "Luger" written on the outside. It will be a lot cheaper, and the end result will be the same.

No offense to you Ed, but you are thinking as a collector( which you are, and a very knowledge one, that you surely know I much respect) and not as a shooter.

There are, to me, 3 parts I accept as mismatch, that even if they ruin the value of a Luger as a "collection" piece will not affect it's value as a perfect shooter. Bear in mind that I won't even consider a DWM as a shooter in whatever condition it might be. I'll always go for Mauser made Lugers. 1st part. Rear toggle pin, numbered on Mausers, but it will be better with an unnumbered fitted pin. 3nd part. Firing pin, also numbered, but if you want to get a decent trigger pull, you will need another firing pin well fitted to the sear bar. 3rd part. Disassembling(locking) lever. It's fairly easy to adjust any of those to any particular pistol.

The other parts I prefer to be matching.

And there's "almost matching" for you.

Even with today's technology, it is now essentially impossible to create a Luger of C97 Mauser pistol without it costing many thousands of dollars. We cannot match the incredible hand fitting of these old world firearms. The knowledge is lost, much like the recipe for concrete the ancient Romans had that has only recently been rediscovered.

You're better off getting an old one.

Fixed it for you.

I've got somewhat of a collector Luger. It belonged to Abraham Lincoln and was presented to him at the surrender by Gen. Robert E. Lee according to the Jinks letter I have on it. Apparently it was a prototype that was close to full production for the South until the war ended. It came about as a secret collaboration between the South and Germany as the Germans wanted to ally with the South upon their victory. The object was to join the vast agricultural resources if the South with the beer industry in Germany. Plus the Germans were going to equip the Southern troops with those neat helmets with the pointy thingies on the top.
I know things......

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Forum consigliere

Caj, I would like to see a copy of that Jinx letter!:-)

If he spelled his name as Jinx instead of Jinks, I bet that letter is a phony. Just might be, anyway...

BTW, the only handgun really attributed to R .E. Lee is an engraved Colt M-1851 Navy .36. Can't recall if it's one of a pair. Grips are dark wood, prob. walnut.

Lee doesn't seem to have worn a gun on his belt. Used saddle holsters. Look for them in paintings of the general. Same for George Washington. About saddle holsters, not Navy Colts, of course.

Too bad. I bet George Washington's Colt Navies would bring a premium. That, and his Glock 17 signed by Gaston Glock himself.

Here is one that just sold, at what I think is an average price in today's market:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/742055340

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

It's real. I know because I sold it to Caj.

Like many of you, my life was incomplete without a Luger. I despaired of ever finding a reasonable one because I limited myself to 9mm ones.

Then I ran across a very clean, all matching, 1920 Commercial in .30 Luger. This is the least collectible, most common, Luger out there. It was love at first sight, and the price was less than $800.



I'd encourage anyone looking for a Luger to consider the .30 variety. They are always cheaper. The ammo is readily available, but more expensive than 9mm for sure. But really: how much are you going to shoot it?

I shoot mine a few times a year. I keep an eye out for .30 Luger ammo at gunshows and online. Even Cabelas carries it.



So, rather than a repro 9mm, I'd look for a real .30 Luger. It is the original Luger caliber, after all.

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Rule of law, not a man.

There has been a LNIB 1970s Luger at the last 4 or 5 local gun shows with an asking price of $2K. That makes it almost tempting to negotiate a lower price, but I am not interested. There were many East German Vopo Lugers floating around after the Berlin wall fell, most had mismatched parts and were refinished, maybe more than once. One of those probably wouldn't be too expensive as a shooter. Maybe the Russians still have lots of Lugers stored away and will release them some day.

One of the local antique shops had a fairly nice .30 Luger for sale for $700 back a few years ago, I probably should have bought it. Point is, it is possible to find one in the $1000 price range. I have owned numerous Lugers I bought for nearly nothing back in the late 1950s and 1960s, but I sold off all of them long ago.

Thank you, for the excellent replies, I have a strong preference for a Luger to be 9mm. Probably because, I have a lot (even by Texas standards) of 9mm stored up from when it was $3 for 50 count box at Academy and I "hoarded it" every week. I am much more confidant of tracking down my Luger now. Not surprisingly, it appears there are some things to learn - particularly in the details of metallurgy. Is there a acknowledged "bible" book on collecting Lugers? Please keep the pictures and posts coming. Thanks!

VoPo Lugers a good option. They haven't picked up much collector value, yet. True they generally have mismatched parts, but those psrts were not randomly assembled, they were reffited to the pistol by folks who knew their business (some of them might have assembled them when they were first made).

In case you don't know what a VoPo Luger is.
The Lugers that remained in service in Eastern Germany (up to the 60s) with the dreaded "Peoples Police" better know as VoPo (Deutsche Volks Polizei).

Back in 94 I had a FFL and I bought two of the Mitchell Arms stainless lugers and sold one to a friend, as of now neither one has given any problems, I believe I gave about 500 each for them. Jeff

I bought this Pattern 1914 DWM Luger made in 1918 for $1200 out the door with the holster (which is worth about $250 by itself). It has all matching numbers and is in overall very good condition with good strawing, and blue around 95%.

They made a bunch of DWM Lugers and they are not as high priced as other less common Lugers, but are some of the best made Lugers around.

I have no qualms about shooting it. The keys to shooting a Luger are:

1) replace the springs; and

2) stay with standard pressure ammo, and keep it within two boundaries:
- it needs to be strong enough to cycle the action; and
- the toggles should not be cutting masking tape placed on the frame shoulders. If the tape is getting cut, the load is too stiff.

I recently bought a Mitchell 6" and an all-matching Erfurt model 1914, each for right around $1k, and that was in CA. They are out there.

I way prefer originals that have probably "been there" during historical events. Years ago, I was lucky enough to nail this Mauser P.08 made in 1936. It was accompanied by a 1936-dated military holster. All numbers match except the magazines, but those were period correct. 1936 was the last year that some smaller parts were "strawed" instead of blued for a nice contrast. This gun and its holster were apparently bring-back war souvenirs.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I just returned from the SOS in Louisvile, KY and I was amazed at the number of Lugers available at this show. I am not exaggerating when I say equipping a division would not have been a problem. I made no attempt to price them as I would have been at it all day. Ironically there were more Lugers available at the SOS, a militaria show, then there were at the Natl. Gun day show in the same facility!
Jim

How does the Mitchell shoot?

Have a minty WWII bring back as well as an early run 4" Stainless Mitchell purchased many years ago (no luger rollstamp) , haven't had either out in a long while but IIRC my only complaints with the Mitchell are the cheap looking cast mag release button that looks to have the checkering stamped or cast into it giving a waffle like appearance, (BTW the toggle and take down lever also have stamped checkering), the sandblasted like finish on the safety lever, the lack of lanyard ring, the absence of machining cuts for the OEM buttstock (although the lug is there), the cheap magazine, The horrible Mitchell billboard rollstamp and lastly the lack of a machined shelf above the safety flag which would normally protect it from damage or snagging, the Mitchell's flag just rises up into free space.


That all being said they are decent shooters and build quality that are unique enough to eventually rise in value over time IMO.

This is my 1916 DWM, all matching except mags. My wife’s uncle found it as a kid at a pawn shop that he would stop at on the way home from school every week in Elberton, Ga. in 1955. His dad went back with him and he paid $25 for it. It was last shot in 1970. It came with matching holster and tool and two mags, one WWI and one WWII. It’s field marked 2.M.C. R.158. for 2nd Machine Gun Company, Regiment No. 158. on the front strap.
This was a Prussian regiment, originally, “7.Lothringisches Infanterie=Regiment, established on 31 March 1897 in Paderborn, Germany. At the outbreak of the Great War, the 158th was assigned to the 13th Infantry Division, VII Corps, 2nd Army. In March, 1915 the 158th was transferred to the 50th Division and remained with them until the end of the war.

The combat record of the 158th is very interesting. It was part of the Imperial German element that invaded Belgium fighting in both Champagne and Artois prior to its transfer to the 50th Infantry Division. After joining the 50th, the 158th fought in Verdun-Vaux, Argonne, Aisne, St. Quentin, Aisne, Rheims, Meuse and was in the Meuse area at the Armistice.
Allied Intelligence rated the 50th Infantry Division as “first class”.

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Get off my lawn!