Thompson 1928 A1

03hemi · May 31, 2018

...As to full auto weapons, unlike the US (1986 act?), they are all legal to own under certain circumstances (sizeable collection, serious security and safe storage) but very difficult to shoot. You have to ask for a special permit for a specific date (cost 150.-) and a range that agrees. Not easy.
And there's the rub, $150 for a ONE day pass, if you can find a range that allows it, I wonder if you can shoot it at your own property?

03hemi · May 31, 2018

CLASSIC12 said:
Shall I send it straight to the BATF then ?

Send it to me and I'll make you a case to carry it in, Chicago style. Just kid'n, don't want that thing around me without a tax stamp.

CLASSIC12 · May 31, 2018

Alpo said:
You probably already know this, but just in case you don't.

Your drum is marked WIND 9 OR 11 CLICKS.

This is because of the different rates of fire.

9 clicks and it unwinds at the correct speed to feed the 28. 11 clicks makes it unwind faster to keep up with a 21.

I know ... because you told me so 3 years ago (I didn’t know then). Thanks again.

CLASSIC12 · May 31, 2018

03hemi said:
...As to full auto weapons, unlike the US (1986 act?), they are all legal to own under certain circumstances (sizeable collection, serious security and safe storage) but very difficult to shoot. You have to ask for a special permit for a specific date (cost 150.-) and a range that agrees. Not easy.
And there's the rub, $150 for a ONE day pass, if you can find a range that allows it, I wonder if you can shoot it at your own property?

Well nothing’s perfect heh. I can buy it easily and cheap, but shooting it has restrictions. You can shoot it easily, but have to fork out the price of a very nice car. If you can find one for sale (the FA gun, not the car [emoji854]).

So the difference can cover quite a few daily licenses. I’d rather be in my shoes then.

As to what people may or can do on their private property, I don’t really know, but I believe the law allows shooting in general on your private property, provided access are controlled / fenced, proper / safe backup is in place and it’s not a nuisance for the neighbours .

That being said, it’s a very small country and land is expensive, we don’t have vast plains like the US. I can only dream of a range like Hickok 45 has.

CLASSIC12 · May 31, 2018

03hemi said:
Send it to me and I'll make you a case to carry it in, Chicago style. Just kid'n, don't want that thing around me without a tax stamp.

You make those ?? Beautiful. I imagine the cost is close to what the gun cost me.

29aholic · May 31, 2018

The only serial number on those is the upper. When the government torched Thompsons they only torched the upper. I really never quite understood that, because the upper is a relatively easy part to make compared to the lower.

I had a friend of mine that actually built a section to replace the area torched out of the middle of the upper on a parts kit I had. We never welded it in, but it would have only taken a little time to weld in and finish machining it.

CLASSIC12 · May 31, 2018

Torched as in cut with a blow torch ?? [emoji27]

Skeetr57 · May 31, 2018

Back in 1971 or '72, I was offered a 1921 Thompson by a Class III dealer for $600. It was a trade in from an AL police Dept. and included one drum magazine. The SN on the Colt manufactured gun was 96! At the time I was a young Army captain with a wife and two young children, so I passed due to the total cost of $800 when the transfer tax was included. In hindsight, considering the price today, it was a poor economic decision, but seemed right at the time.

CLASSIC12 · May 31, 2018

Skeetr57 said:
Back in 1971 or '72, I was offered a 1921 Thompson by a Class III dealer for $600. It was a trade in from an AL police Dept. and included one drum magazine. The SN on the Colt manufactured gun was 96! At the time I was a young Army captain with a wife and two young children, so I passed due to the total cost of $800 when the transfer tax was included. In hindsight, considering the price today, it was a poor economic decision, but seemed right at the time.

The 1921 is even rarer and expensive, right ? And a two digit serial number.

But you just can’t think like that. 16 years ago I sold my 1991 Porsche 911 turbo for $ 35k. Now worth $ 100k. And 12 years ago I sold my 1995 911 twin turbo for $ 60k. Now worth $ 120k plus. Oh well. Hindsight is 20/20.

HOUSTON RICK · May 31, 2018

Thompsons and Porsche's are both out of my league. Enjoy!

italiansport · May 31, 2018

Colt manufactured the first 15,000 Thompsons and the quality was unparalleled compared to future groups. They declined to produce any more due to the negative publicity the Thompson's were getting as a gangster weapons(sound familiar?). A two digit serial number Thompson would be a very desirable collector item assuming it was still in it's original condition. $50,000 + wouldn't surprise me at a well attended auction. Not many were sold until the onset of WW II and changes were made at that time. The remaining 21's were over stamped 28 and the internal bolt and actuator were modified to slow the cycle rate down to around 600 rounds per minute. As time went on the adjustable Lyman sight was changed to a simple "L" sight and the finned barrel was changed to a smooth one.
However the time involved to produce these and the associated costs were too high for the Government and Savage(One of the principle war time producers) was tasked with simplifying the gun. The Blish lock was eliminated turning it into a simple slam fire weapon and the slots were no longer machined to incorporate the drums. The stock was no longer hand detachable and now held on with two bolts. There were other changes apparent when a side by side comparison was made. The end result was the much simpler M1A1. Even with this the government was still looking for a cheaper and faster alternative and the Grease Gun was developed and widely distributed thru the remainder of the War.
Jim

Texas Star · May 31, 2018

Classic 12-

Please discuss Swiss pistol laws, including legal carrying.

I read somewhere that the laws about that were tightened some years ago. ??

Has Switzerland had any terrorist incidents?

Texas Star · May 31, 2018

How soon were M-3 Grease Guns in use? Late 1943? Early 1944?

I've never seen any in photos of the Invasion or soon after. (June 6) Only Thompsons until 1945 photos. But some were probably in use.

The only M-3 photos I've seen were taken in the Pacific and same for M-2 carbines. But I've read that some saw service in Europe late in the war.

29aholic · May 31, 2018

CLASSIC12 said:
Torched as in cut with a blow torch ?? [emoji27]

Yes, the government over here "demilled" thousands of military surplus guns, including Thompsons, BAR's, Brownings, even some M1's and 1911's. This was mostly done with a torch, but some were cut with a big saw. Depending on where the serial numbers were is where they were cut.

We used to be able to buy parts kits of these demilled guns.

It's crazy, but on the belt fed Brownings only the right side plate was demilled. You can actually shoot one without that plate but not for very long.

PALADIN85020 · May 31, 2018

That Tommy with his Tommy gun, assuming the gun was loaded, would not be able to get off a shot. The bolt is closed on an empty chamber. All Thompsons (except new semiautos) fire from an open bolt.

I guess that this was not widely known in Blighty - here is a shot of Winston Churchill struggling to insert a 50-round drum magazine into a Thompson from the side - impossible to do when the bolt is forward.

For more information and plenty of pictures on the Thompsons, see my photo album on them here:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/members/paladin85020-albums-thompsons-.html

John

29aholic · May 31, 2018

Yep, the drum is definitely empty in the top photo. As John mentioned you have to open the bolt to insert the drum. So, he either just finished emptying the drum (doubtful) or the drum was empty to begin with.

CLASSIC12 · May 31, 2018

Texas Star said:
Classic 12-

Please discuss Swiss pistol laws, including legal carrying.

I read somewhere that the laws about that were tightened some years ago. ??

Has Switzerland had any terrorist incidents?

The guns laws used to be ruled by the States (we are a confederation of 23 states). My state allowed carry, concealed only. Regretfully by the end of last century, almost 20 years ago, they unified the gun laws into a single federal law. Gun carry now requires a special license with a “need” clause (whether you are a professional, or zillionaire risking being kidnapped), is very hard to obtain and is quite restrictive (I believe 3 or 4 guns can be listed on the license, max 10 mm).

On the other hand it is a pretty quiet and safe place, so carrying was mostly for fun, or feel good factor.

Only once did I carry for safety : my employer asked me to pick up $ 150’000 in cash at the bank (they kindly gave me a shoe box) and deliver it to a business partner in a 5* hotel 1/2 mile away.

I packed a 1939 Walther PPK in .32 auto loaded with Silvertips.

It would have been stupid to lose that sum to a punk with a knife.

I don’t remember any terrorist attack here, no.

Our worst case of mass shooting :

Zug massacre - Wikipedia

Alpo · May 31, 2018

CLASSIC12 said:
I know ... because you told me so 3 years ago (I didn’t know then). Thanks again.

When I got mine I was reading it as 9 TO 11, not 9 OR 11, so was winding it ten. Kept jamming. The drum was running faster than the gun was.

Then someone told me that meant EITHER. OOOHHHHH. That makes sense.

Hondo44 · May 31, 2018

CLASSIC12 said:
You are correct, it is a British lend / lease. The sling attachment on the front grip is also typical on these.

Not sure how you can tell if the upper and lower are matching. They sure seem to be in colour and condition, but there is only one serial number on the upper.
Tons of fun [emoji3]

Thanks for your thread.

To verify matching upper and lower serial # match:

Your Tommy gun has a quick release butt stock; push the button on the upper rear stock tang and pull to the rear.

The lower will have the matching serial # stamped where the stock slides on and off.

giantpanda4 · Jun 1, 2018

Classic12, nice Thompson! There are a lot of Thompson collectors here in the States. A couple events happen each year for shows and shoots, both the Thompson Collector's Association (TCA) and the American Thompson Association (TATA) hold annual events in Ohio. I suggest joining to get the newsletters even in you cannot attend. I see others members on this S&W Forum are already members of the Machinegunboards.com website the premier source for online information on Thompsons.
What is most interesting is a friend of mine recently got an S&W 76 SMG, and we are going to compare it to the Thompson when we get a chance! Both fine guns!

Thompson 1928 A1

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