Guys I just bought what many knife experts consider to be possibly one of the most effective defensive blades ever devised. That would be the legendary Spyderco Civilian:



Civilian™ G-10 Black - Spyderco, Inc.

This is a very storied knife with quite the reputation. In the early '90s it was designed at the request of DEA agents who wanted the most effective defensive knife possible in situations where carrying a gun was not feasible. The agents were not formally trained in knife fighting so the design had to be able to be effective even in relatively untrained hands. The Spyderco Civilian was the result and it has since gained an almost cult status.

The knife is designed for one thing: defense. In fact, the blade is so extremely sharp, thin and tapered, that the tip has a reputation for breaking if the knife is used for daily cutting. In fact, Spyderco even includes a tag packaged with the knife saying to not use it for utility work. I don't mean to be crude here but the blade was made for cutting the flesh of human bodies as effectively as possible, not as an everyday work knife. The needle-like blade is necessary to do this with the utmost efficiency.

I have to say, it is an extremely impressive implement. It is designed for devastating ripping cuts to disable an attacker by physically destroying the blood vessels, nerves, and tendons. It isn't so much meant for stabbing, but to deliver a great deal of painful and crippling trauma to limbs etc. and quickly "hit and run" as it were.

I should explain that I purchased this knife to carry in locations where it is legal and when I don't have access to firearms. I travel a great deal for my job and find myself on installations that bar any kind of firearms but with no prohibitions on knives. Right now I am in Texas and this knife is riding in my pocket as I type this. Due to its blade length, the knife is illegal for carry in some jurisdictions.

Also, I fully know well any knife is a poor replacement for a handgun and that running away from an attack is the smartest thing to do. But, when cornered with no other option for defense, it certainly beats harsh words. It is a psychologically fearsome weapon and can deliver telling performance and violence to the human body if it is needed, yet carries very easily and is much handier and discrete over larger non-firearm weapons. Pepper spray and tasers are possibly better still, but those too are barred in settings that I frequent.

For anyone interested here are some articles on this knife for more information:

The Spyderco Civilian Family

Not your Daddy’s Lock Back: Spyderco Civilian | The Loadout Room

Take care!

-Jay

I have carried a civilian ever since they were introduced. It is not the knife I use to open boxes. I have several decades of Phillipino and Indonesian martial arts behind me, and the kerambit style blade of the civilian lends itself very well to the flow drills that these disciplines teach.
It is wicked sharp, thin and with that fully serrated blade delivers devastating cuts. You have equipped yourself with a great edged weapon.

Nice knife. I carry a Spyderco Endura every day along with a Leatherman Juice S2 that handles all the everyday cutting tasks. The Endura stays sharp as a last option in a self defense situation.

I believe that knives enjoy a psychological edge over firearms in the sense that almost everyone knows what it feels like to be cut. Very few have been shot.

Your post is a good one and your rational well reasoned.

Sure looks nasty. Sure would do the trick on an attacker I would imagine. Been carrying a spring assist Sog Trident tanto for an EDC but yours looks dynamite for defense.

The Matriarch looks really awesome too! The Emerson wave feature (the tab you are talking about) looks super useful. A Delica 4 Wave is another Spyderco on the short list for me. Also I paid far less than MSRP for my Civilian, most places it is running at or a bit below $200.

Spyderco has MAP pricing. all the places I checked gave the same price on the Civilian, $201.47.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

For that money it should have good steel I would imagine. Have heard very positive reviews concerning Spyderco knives over the years. Recently started a meager collection myself. So many choices even for EDCs it can be mind boggling. Sure are many different steels to choose from.

I carry a Cold Steel Ti-Lite VI.



It's basically a modern take on the classic Stiletto "Switchblade" design, except that it's not a spring-assisted knife.
They come in a variety of configurations, but mine is one of the cheaper models with a 6" AUS-8A Stainless Steel blade and Zytel handle.

Fair warning, I didn't read all the posts before posting. I just read the title and the OP.

I don't understand the concept of "The Knife for When You Can't Carry a Gun."

Every where that I've been that carrying a gun was not going to work for those who have a little more trouble than me carrying a gun around are in no way going to be able to get that knife through the front door either . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Assuming you are not DEA, or a spec ops guy, having a specialty knife who's only real purpose is cutting human flesh, may not be a great appearance/lawyer friendly in the event you ever did need to use it for self defense. Then there's the problem of having to carry a second knife that can do the everyday chores. FOR ME I'd probly eventually use it for a non human flesh task & break it. Wouldn't another spyderco with a serrated thicker blade be more all around useful & NOT PROJECT the looking to kill image, yet still be an effective S/D weapon? LOOKING BAD, it does indeed. If you want to be rid of it, put me in for the Karma.

If one carries a knife, they best be trained in how to use it. Simply possessing an expensive knife doesn't make one a knife fighter - unless it's just for show.

It's nice knife, though!

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Thread Killer.

This video has some interesting applications for the Spyderco Civilian. You may enjoy watching it. The good stuff starts around minute 5.

Mine knife with or without a gun is the Zero Tolerance 350. It recently replaced my lost Buck Crosslock. Very happy with the ZT 350!

It reminds me of the Spyderco with a down - curved blade that Dr. Hannibal Lecter carried in one of Thomas Harris's books. I think the idea was for the insane shrink to use it to sever the big leg artery. Femoral? It can also probably hamstring someone easily.

But Lecter's knife would bee more rugged and he could tell a nosy cop that he used it to cut carpet or a seatbelt or some such excuse.

I have knives that I carry in that role, but none are fragile or so limited in scope. A top choice is my Benchmade Model 710, on my belt now. A Tramontina machete with an 18 inch blade is by my computer. THAT will remove a limb or split a skull! It's by a S&W M-66-3 .357 that'd be used before the knife, if I had time to unzip the gun case. The machete can be raised as I peel the sheath off the VERY sharp blade and be in action sooner.

If I have to kill a centipede or snake, the machete can do that without risk of a bullet penetrating a wall and hitting a neighbor. Thankfully, I'm unlikely to have either beast in my home, but it could theoretically happen. Or a mouse might need killing.

My son once stepped very quickly on a copperhead snake's neck and he drew his Benchmade knife with a tanto point and cut the head off with the knife. He said the one-hand opening was a real plus.

A kitchen cabinet holds a Fallkniven NL-2, a sort of Bowie knife with a Randallesque leather handle.

And another location in my home has a Buck Model 120, in case I can't get to a gun as someone breaks in.

By the time I was 12 years old, I'd read Col. Rex Applegate's, Kill or Get Killed, and I had a pretty fair basic idea of how to kill with a knife. I owned a Fairbairn-Sykes commando knife by then. (In 1979, I lunched with Rex and told him I'd initially read his book in a WW II edition that my father bought in 1944. He laughed and said that he'd certainly looked thinner in the pictures then.)

I was amazed that I was the only man in my flight (platoon) of Air Police who bought a good combat knife at a time when any of us could expect orders for Vietnam.

I don't know what Jay does in the AF, but he seems to get around. I'd want a knife less specialized and evil looking. I use a Swiss Army knife for most tool knife uses. As a survival knife if a plane went down, that thin Spyderco is too fragile.

If I want an innocent-looking knife that can handle defense work, I have a Victorinox Hunter. The blade locks, and it's bigger than most SAK's. And it has an effective saw blade and other tools.

It would be fascinating to read some first-hand real life accounts from members who have actually used a knife in self-defense. Anybody got one?

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Not in jail.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, as long as a prosecutor thinks he can build a case against you by painting you as a homicidal maniac, he'll try to do so regardless of what you're carrying, so there's really no sense in trying to carry weapons just because they seem less easy to vilify, you're only limiting your options.
Besides, there's absolutely no sense at all in worrying about the aftermath of a potential life or death situation in which lethal force is necessary to preserve one's life, and especially not the lives of others. It's just a recipe for disaster which will inevitably result in hesitation to act which could have lethal consequences.

Weapons are designed with the purpose of killing in mind, ergo the use of ANY weapon can potentially be used as evidence of homicidal tendencies when used for their intended purpose. So regardless of whether you use a combat knife or a multi-purpose knife in self-defense, if the prosecutor has a mind to do so, he'll try to paint it as though you were the bad guy regardless.
Heck, even if you went out of your way to try to avoid being prosecuted for carrying a weapon to the point of carrying a tool which could easily be used as an improvised weapon like a screwdriver or something, if anything, that could be potentially painted in an even worse light. Just sayin, "murder by screwdriver" sounds far more savage/brutal than "murder by knife" and thus could very easily come off worse than any actual weapon.

Which knife to carry when you can't carry a gun?? Uh...take your pick.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

Just opening a lockblade knife once in a practiced manner brought three punks skidding to a halt, but that's all I dare say here, or I'll get a ding from a mod. I'm sure a full account would violate a Rule. The knife was/is a Henckels German hunting knife with a spear-shaped main blade, a secondary saw blade, and a corkscrew. Blade length is four inches. Handle scales are nice stag antler. I've had the knife since 1963.

I'm quite sure that had I not drawn that knife, my then very young daughter and I would not have had the night end well.

I can safely (?) say that drawing a knife convinced two dogs (different occasions) to break off attacks that they were about to launch. Both seemed to realize that the appearance of the knife in hand posed a menace to them.

I've previously (on several occasions) related how use of a knife prevented deaths from two cougars, an African lion, and other animals. The biggest was a crocodile that had to be stabbed in an eye. The blade wouldn't penetrate the armored hide. Well, wait: I ran across an account of a big tiger shark that attacked a SCUBA diver. And my son killed a grey reef shark with a knife. It was about five feet. He got it ashore and natives there (Guam) cooked it on the beach. It was probably after a fish he'd speared, but came too close and seemed a very real threat.

Search for the name Harry Wolhuter to read about the lion incident, in Kruger Park in 1903. Wolhuter's knife, sheath, and the lion's hide were displayed at the park for decades. May still be there for all I know.
There's a stone marker where the event happened. Wolhuter's horse threw him and bolted with his rifle on the saddle when the lion attacked. He had no pistol, so saved himself with a knife having a six-inch blade. This is a harrowing account. Read it. This is well known in South Africa and several custom knifemakers there have offered copies of the knife and probably, the sheath and belt, which Wolhuter made, himself.

A good strong sharp Buck 110 or a Case xx folding knives.

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Life is short,live it fully.

[QUOTE=Mule Packer;140141357]Which knife to carry when you can't carry a gun?? Uh...take your pick.


Which one of those beauties do you carry when you are in the mountains on a mule?

Have a blessed day,

Leon

MulePacker..........I'll take knife #4 for $200....... .........

Ok OK..... reality for the Wilds of Penn's Woods is at most it the top knife!!!!!!

Generally just carry a 2.99 inch Benchmade North Fork with wood scales..... for that non-tacticoooool look

I've carried folding knives as a backup, but if I had to choose one knife to carry in lieu of a gun, it would be my Buck 119. It's simply tough-use built and highly functional for a variety of jobs. Hard to beat a good SAR pocketknife for overall utility, however, and I carry one of those daily.

Bet there might be a Vietnam vet or two, but I also bet they wouldn’t be overly eager to talk about it. Here, anyway, if at all. Myself, i’d Rather jump in a tub of acid than get into a knife fight.

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Oui Chef!

Butch Cassidy was the best knife fighter ever:

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No school like the old school.

If I spend over $300.00 on a knife it's going to have the words
" RANDALL MADE " stamped on the blade.
A model 1 All purpose fighting knife with a 7 inch blade gets my vote.

I don’t entertain fantasies that I possess Zorro like skill with a bladed weapon.

If the gun at hand won’t solve my sd problem, I don’t imagine that a knife will help, even a big scary knife.

Since the Spyderco knife OP is displaying is illegal to carry concealed here in Colorado (blade’s too long) even Zorro would be more likely to get in legal trouble with it than to get out of a sd situation with it.

I had a knife pulled on me when I was in an after school fight. A thick horsehide leather jacket saved me from getting my forearm cut really bad. I have deep a scar on my pinky finger where it caught me, though. I didn't feel it but as soon as I realized I was bleeding, I ran.

It was that incident that made me realize I really didn't know how to fight nor how to defend myself against weapons. I also realized how lucky I was that the guy who had the knife and was just swinging didn't know what he was doing, either.

Like I said earlier, if you* carry a weapon, you best know how to use it and retain it lest someone who knows what they're doing will take it and use it on you. If you have a knife and no skills you're just a hazard to yourself.

*the general "you"

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Thread Killer.

I carry a knife every day and have for years. This is my current inventory: Left to right; Bushmaster Survival, Piranha auto, Boker auto, and Gerber auto.

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John

In Paris in 1983 I carried a Fairbarn & Sykes dagger when I went back to the Cite Universitaire in the Metro and RER with some lovely girl after a night in the Quartier Latin. The gangs decided to looked for different victims.

I routinely carry a knife, generally two, a Swiss Army Knife and some kind of folder, switchblade often enough, sometimes a fixed blade. Sometimes a custom knife, often a factory piece.

Where I go if a gun is not allowed a knife probably isn't, either, and I am virtually never without a gun, except and unless I am in an airport and if my destination doesn't allow guns then I won't be checking one in luggage. At that point I will be checking a knife or two in luggage. And then I will be very careful about carrying it.

The problem is that Texas allows all kinds of knives but elsewhere it is not so simple. Every knife pictured in this thread above my post will get you arrested in New York City, for example. I have to go there so I have to carry a far less obvious knife and, believe me, they are WEIRD about it. Open one handed? Go to jail. Open with an assist? Go to jail. They are just that way there.

The only place I can even think of that I cannot carry a gun but can carry a knife is a governmental facility, particularly a Federal facility because the local ones permit guns except in courtrooms. If the gun is not permitted then, again, neither will a knife be permitted.

I'm just pointing out the obvious when it comes to the concept of "you better bring a good knife if you can't carry a gun" - we have 50 states and a zillion local jurisdictions but I am willing to wager that any state that permits me to carry my gun will permit me to carry some kind of a knife. Maybe not a switchblade, maybe not a large blade, maybe not a double edged blade, but something in between, something not too easy to flick open, not too large. You follow my drift.

SAKs are virtually go anywhere (not counting the exclusions above). Simple lockbacks are generally, but not always, acceptable. That beauty that started this thread - trust me, if I can't carry a gun then I can't carry that, except as noted.















The foregoing does NOT include many foreign countries where any kind of a "weapon" is banned. Be VERY very careful if you decide to carry a knife in a foreign country.

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Side note to my fellow Forum members - you will get a moderator ding if you post websites and don't post copyright information unless I am misreading the rules. I just have been dinged sufficiently that I am very mindful of that rule, maybe to excess, but it is better to be careful.

SO I can go get the BORN TO KILL tattoo on my forehead & skull and crossbones on my gun?

I do, just last night as a matter of fact. Happened at the kitchen table. It was me and a NY strip. One of us wasn't leaving that table in one piece. Thanks to my blade I came out the winner.


In all seriousness I did watch a video on YouTube where Doug Marcaida was showing the 21 foot rule using a knife against an opponent with a handgun. Doug stated something along the lines of, "in order to win the fight your opponent can't see the knife, he can only feel it" or words to that effect. Kinda makes sense when you think about it.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

Just a heads up for everyone, but in many places where you cannot carry a concealed firearm, you are also prohibited from carrying ANY kind of concealed weapon like a knife. Check your local laws.

I say this because NV law has some gotchas as to what may be carried as a concealed weapon and there are quite a lot of exclusions.

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Release the Kraken

No. Just no. No knife fights for me. I want a knife that is a cutting implement for general use. Any kind can be used as a weapon in extremis, but self defense is what my carry gun is for. I pray I never have to use it--so far so good--but I would trust its effectiveness more than any blade.

My Spyderco Endura and Kershaw OSO Sweet, especially the Endura, are the only knives I carry these days, and $260 is way beyond my means.

Except for the post office and hospitals, I don't go anywhere I can't carry a gun.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Any one of the many Spyderco knives I own.

With an abundance of gray hair comes wisdom? No one pays much attention to an old man with a cane. With a short thrusting blade that can be quickly deployed and driven through an opponent has merit.

old tanker,

I have a very similar looking cane as the one you picture. Mine has a chrome head in the same shape as yours, and the body of the cane looks exactly like mine. Mine does not have the short thrusting blade in place. I'm curious about the source for your cane.

There have been times when it was necessary for me to use a cane to walk safely. After I got used to the cane, and after trying a few different styles and handle shapes, it became apparent to me that a good sturdy cane has a great deal of utility for things other than just a walking aid. As you say, it can be carried everywhere without any notice, expecially by those of us with gray or no hair, and who are obviously of an age that a cane is probably a necessary accessory. A good sturdy cane is a much better defensive weapon than most recognize, and it can be deployed very effectively against all kinds of predators where ever you go, including all the places where firearms and knives are forbidden. And it is always a great choice for personal protection when less than lethal response is called for!

Of course, canes with blades are generally also forbidden, which makes them immediately a source of immediate attention by the local constabulary. But until they are deployed (or detected by a metal detector, etc,) they are not usually an object of any special attention. I'd appreciate knowing where you came by that particular cane if you can tell me! A PM will suffice!

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So long ... Ken

Gerber E-Z-out. I'm simple, and cheap.

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What would that have to do with your choice of a weapon? Both are additions made after the fact.

Try actually thinking before attempting to make a counter-argument.This isn't High School, so unfortunately making cheeky little remarks won't impress anyone.

OH, my bad. I am so burned.

As Texas Star pointed out when mentioning "Dr. Hannibal Lecter's knife", the Spyderco Harpy, especially in all stainless, makes a reasonable and IMHO more practical day-to-day counterpart to the Civilian. I've been through three in 15 years and only once ever had to use it defensively (more on that in a moment). If I recall it was originally designed as a fisherman's knife with it's curved blade for being able to reach out single-handed, 'hook' fouled netting or rope, and cut the fouling by pulling towards yourself in a controlled sawing motion. It's been ages since I read up on it, some details may be wrong, but I can say that for myself it has always been an excellent day to day pocket carry, and fairly short bladed and stout at that.

I've been in all of two SD situations involving blades, more due to time spent working in bad neighborhoods than any LEO or Services work.

The one involving my Spyderco was relatively slight but involved a very belligerent drunk in a bar I tended. No actual blade was used but if anyone is familiar with the somewhat oval shape of the knife in reference, it is almost as handy as the old roll of quarters trick in a fist, though narrower. Had to use that on a fellow in a bar I once tended after he assaulted the bouncer and showed a proclivity to continue. He spent the night in the tank, my bouncer got the weekend off, and my hand got ice for a few days.

A less pleasant event occurred some time before when getting gas on the way home from work, around 3:30 AM as a bartender. Long story short, had my knuckles slashed by a very cheap folder and I'm sure it would have gone worse if I hadn't had my old .32 Hand Ejector with me. Lost my wallet which had all of ten bucks, kept my health after a tetanus shot; I call it an ok draw.

My personal takeaway is much like guns; big or fancy is fine, as long as you know how to use it.

I grew up loving Case knives. I've decided to sell off my collection, but will keep a couple of my old carry Cases that have long lost any collector's value. I never thought of them for defense, just daily work around the home and office.

This one is going to compliment my CS9.

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Patriots Forever!!

Friend,
You didn't ask for advice, and I don't know your reasons for contemplating selling off those old Case knives. But I can't help but ask you to be very careful when you select which ones you are going to sell. Those knives probably cannot be replaced or gotten back after they are gone. I don't know how many knives you are talking about, but they can't take up much room! I also know you can't carry more than one or two of 'em at a time, but you can carry one today and another tomorrow or next week. Surely you have some good memories made with some of those knives! And unless they are truly collectible, you are not likely to generate a large sum of money from their sale.

Have you got any sons, grandsons, nephews, even daughters or nieces that might appreciate and keep one or two apiece as keepsakes in your memory? I've been sharing some of my accumulation with grandchildren when their parents think they are old enough to be responsible with them. Of course, having been given my first knife at considerably under school age, I've been packing a pocket knife for a good many years, so my judgement of when a grandchild is ready for the responsibility of owning a knife sometimes is different than that of their parents (both of them, of course!).

Just the thought of getting rid of those knives is painful for me, which is what compelled me to stick my oar in your water here, so please don't take offense. An old Case knife, even one that has obviously been well used, is a treasure! They are yours to do with what you deem is best. Thanks for listening to my opinion.

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So long ... Ken

I have a Civilian and a Matriarch. Both are amazing cutting implements.

What would be interesting is to find out why you cannot carry a gun, but can carry a knife like that?

If there's a bad guy with a knife, and I don't have a gun, threatening me, there's only one tool I'm using; my feet.

If I'm cornered and only have a knife with me, yeah, I'm using it. However, I don't buy/carry a knife for defense. It's a tool like anything else. I use my knife all the time. I'm sure there are days where I haven't used it, but I can't remember one. So, carrying a knife that can't be used for regular knife work (you know, cutting stuff) is wasted weight to me. I carry enough stuff.

If I have to, my regular knife is good enough:

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Freedom isn't free.

I work in an intensive care unit, just got visited last night by the hospital armed security with a talk on what to do with an active shooter. I cannot carry at work for 2 reasons: it is across the street from a jail, and it is simply forbidden. I asked if we can have a 4oz can of fox pepper spray, he looked at me like I was nuts. Basically we hide or throw staplers at them. He said, "you know you do have scissors and scalpels here." I'll be carrying a Spyderco Endura with me. I would plan on testing the Tueller drill. He better hope he can take out my central nervous system cause I wouldn't stop until contact was made. Best I can do there.

It's not illegal to carry across the street from a jail. Company policy is another subject.

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Freedom isn't free.

Was he doing ALICE training.............???????? Active shooter situations...... last on average 8 minutes.... time is on your side... make it hard .... they will move on.

Look around tonight/tomorrow ..... what can be used as a weapon; figure it out in advance; fire extinguisher sprayed in a shooters face ........... top half of an adjustable IV pole?...... 6" pair of scissors?..... scalpels?....think about where to cut carotid,tendons in the wrists......... what can be used as a bludgeon.

Having a plan you can implement is better than starting from scratch when TSHTF.......... also think about securing doors with doorstops (which way do they open) ..... crash doors linking the handles together so they can't open with a belt or power cord..... jamming the numatic (sp) closer at the top so it can't open.