Pedersen Device for Springfield

Narragansett

Narragansett

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Does anybody know what these are? They were conversion units that mounted on an 03 Springfield to make them automatic and fire a 30 cal pistol cartridge. If you read Wikipedia, 65000 were made,by 1919, never made the war, and were ordered destroyed. Basically, all units from storage were destroyed except 100. i know somebody that has or says he has one mounted on a Springfield. I am going to try to see it soon. I will post an edit link for information soon.

Pedersen device - Wikipedia

Anybody got a guess as to value?
 
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The linked article is a pretty good summary. I recall one being on auction or for sale in the last 5 years or so but not if it sold, or at what price - wouldn't be surprised at mid-high five figures. The 1903 Mark I rifles seem not to bring a large premium, however.
 
I forget the exact 1903 Springfield model, but it has to have a elongated cut out in the side of the frame. In 95% or better condition, this model of rifle is 10 to 30% more than the regular rifle. (These rifles are from Springfield Armory only and have the "Black" oil quenched hardening finish. Other 03's cannot be retro fitted, because of the hardening!)

In the 1980's, I was at an OGCA show, and saw a Pederson device, transport case, field carrying case, Mag pouch with 3 mags and 2 boxes of ammo. (less rifle) it was tagged at $4000. but didn't sell. I fell in love with it, but for a guy in my 20's with little kids, it may as well have been a million dollars!

Ivan
 
Hatcher's Notebook has a good write up about them. It's been so long since I read about it.........

Need to drag it out and read it again.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
 
There were Pedersen Devices made for the 1917 US Enfield and the Russian Mosin NAgant as well.
All with the intent to get a semiauto close range trench weapon into the hands of front line troops against the Germans.
These latter 2 were barely past design and proto stage unlike the '03 edition but I do recall an article (G-Digest?) about one fitted to a M/N and being shot..

There are precious few original units around. Some are scrounged and assembled from parts. Some/many of the parts were from the demill/destruction ordered of the units after WW1.
A few enterprising souls have built units from scratch also. Or made parts from scratch to complete original but incomplete units.

Lots of accessorys still around like the mag pouches, P-D pouch, '03 bolt pouch (gotta have someplace to put the 30-06 bolt when you put your P-D in place), and mags themselves, but even these are getting scarce as time goes by.

I think the Pedersen cartridge became the 7.62 French Long pistol cartridge. MAybe because we left a couple bil rds of the stuff over there after the War.
 
The "wonder weapon" of WWI. I suspect a Great Idea that Wouldn't Have Worked, as W.H.B. Smith noted, there is a big difference between what a trained operator does under controlled conditions and an ordinary soldier on the battlefield. IIRC the M1903 Mk I requires a special sear and some other parts to use the device.
 
"I think the Pedersen cartridge became the 7.62 French Long pistol cartridge. MAybe because we left a couple bil rds of the stuff over there after the War."

They are similar but not the same loading!

Ivan
 
2152hq said:
There were Pedersen Devices made for the 1917 US Enfield and the Russian Mosin NAgant as well.
All with the intent to get a semiauto close range trench weapon into the hands of front line troops against the Germans.
These latter 2 were barely past design and proto stage unlike the '03 edition but I do recall an article (G-Digest?) about one fitted to a M/N and being shot..

There are precious few original units around. Some are scrounged and assembled from parts. Some/many of the parts were from the demill/destruction ordered of the units after WW1.
A few enterprising souls have built units from scratch also. Or made parts from scratch to complete original but incomplete units.

Lots of accessorys still around like the mag pouches, P-D pouch, '03 bolt pouch (gotta have someplace to put the 30-06 bolt when you put your P-D in place), and mags themselves, but even these are getting scarce as time goes by.

I think the Pedersen cartridge became the 7.62 French Long pistol cartridge. MAybe because we left a couple bil rds of the stuff over there after the War.
Click to expand...

I don't think it saw use
 
It’s been years since seeing a pederson device anywhere but museum displays and even though less engineering involved, I don’t recall ever seeing the Parkhurst device for the 1899 Springfield (30-40 Krag) except for at JM Davis.
Since our local Legion post uses the Mark 1 for honor guard duties, I was able to take pic of ejection port for those not familiar.
b4e4d169bac319ee5185a9e23a281cc0.jpg
8b5518251a8c010065bfee5667ae1c0a.jpg


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLzdGPzHL8U[/ame]
 
LoboGunLeather said:
Yes, a lot of money. But being the first kid on your block to have one has to be worth something!
Click to expand...
Good chance, may be the only kid to have one.
Once upon a time, I had a (1) loaded cartridge and a .30-03 round but a cartridge collector wanted them worse than I did.
 
Believe it or not I have had two friends that each had one and I fired a few rds. out of one of them in the very late 60's. No recoil what so ever, both have since been sold north of $70,000 for the collector quality complete packages including ammo.
 
LoboGunLeather said:
Yes, a lot of money. But being the first kid on your block to have one has to be worth something!
Click to expand...

i am retired now, and as much as it hurts, I had to do away with that line of thinking. Probably the same reasoning i do not have a registered magnum, and buy M28's instead of M27's. But i love my 28's!!
 
At 81 i have not given up on buying last july i finally got my triplelock,and a 3 1/2 model 27 . Don't give up ,you never know what will turn up in your stocking on Christmas.
 
I had never heard of the Pedersen device until the day a guy showed up with one at our club with one and I got to fire it. He was from the midwest and on his way to a show at the Springfield Armory (Springfield MA). He said he fired it often with a limited supply of original ammo and some that he converted from a certain pistol caliber. We laid out a blue tarp and kept very good track of the brass as it ejected. Memorable day.
 
About 40 years ago when I was shooting NRA High Power in Texas I was chewing the fat with some old timers at a match and the topic came up. One of the old timers told a story about how in the early 20's the Army was building sidewalks at Camp Bullis (outside of San Antonio) and for reinforcing steel they dumped hundreds or even thousands of Pedersen devices into the concrete. Often wondered if true, and if so what condition they would be in.
 
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