I have always had a healthy respect for the Winchester 94 and .30-30 as a round in general. I have had seven or eight Model 94's and a couple Marlin .30-30's, and I know that they make a great all around rifle, not just for hunting but would be a great truck gun and if I had to have one rifle for everything outside of a .22 LR, this would be it. So I decided to take it out and practice it past 100 yards. This silhouette was put out at 125 yards, which is how far the local range goes.
I shot five rounds of my handloads, 170 grain Hornady SP behind 30.0 grains of IMR-4064. My old Model 94 put all five rounds home with ease.
I love them, and agree that a lever 30-30 (specifically the Win 94) is the perfect "only one rifle" rifle.
I have hit paper plates at 200 with mine using 170 grain core-lokt ammo.
Remember that when they came out, they were considered a high powered rifle.
Back around 1985 a co-worker wanted to get into shooting, he came home with a used Win mdl 94 XTR in 7-30 Waters. I loaded some ammo for him & with that 24" bbl & IDK scope it shot better than many bolt actions. When he moved out of state, he asked if I wanted it (for free), my genius self told him to hang onto it, as it might be worth something someday. Dont'cha hate being right all the time.
No school like the old school. With all our death ray belted magnums, $1000 optics, tripods, fancy loadings, “builds”, tactical rifles, synthetic stocks, beddings, on and on and on. Hard to beat the thurty-thurty and the ‘94 design.
The crowd that bad mouths 30/30s usually knows very little about the cartridge or hunting. I constantly hear that a 30/30
is responsible for many wounded deer. I personally think besides
the stick and string, guys with 4x12 scopes blasting away at deer
at 400-500yds are the ones responsible for bulk of wounded deer
I have a 1894 Win 30/30 but my favorite keeper is a Marlin 336
Marauder 16" barrel/ Lyman 66 reciever sights. I have put a K3
on it once in a while. I have loaded Speer 130hp/35.0gr 748 Win
at approx 2600fps and shot 100yd groups of 1"-11/2" average.These are pointed HPs so they have to be single loaded
in tube magazine guns. At 60yds I can do the same rested with
reciever sight. I would not hesitate at a 150yd deer. I have shot
to 400yds benched and hit 12" gongs with scope. My furthest deer with 30/30 would be around 100yds because of nature of
thickets where I carry this rifle. My longest shot on deer was
with a BA 308 Win 70 shooting the same bullet/47.0gr IMR 4895
at approx 3000fps. One of the old writers, Jack O maybe, said
anyone who can't take a 30/30 into the woods and come out with
a deer has no bussiness in the woods. I would like to get my hands on a 788 Rem 30/30 just to see what I could wring out
of it.
I would have to agree with DRM 50 in part. A lot of guys who put 4-12X scopes on deer rifles are hunting in the east where most shots are well within 100 yards. At woods ranges, field-of-view is far more important than raw magnification (you can't have both).
Yes, the .30-30 Win., along with the .35 Rem chambered in a Marlin, make excellent woods rifles.
I have always had a healthy respect for the Winchester 94 and .30-30 as a round in general. I have had seven or eight Model 94's and a couple Marlin .30-30's, and I know that they make a great all around rifle, not just for hunting but would be a great truck gun and if I had to have one rifle for everything outside of a .22 LR, this would be it. So I decided to take it out and practice it past 100 yards. This silhouette was put out at 125 yards, which is how far the local range goes.
I shot five rounds of my handloads, 170 grain Hornady SP behind 30.0 grains of IMR-4064. My old Model 94 put all five rounds home with ease.
I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY THAT A WINCHESTER OR MARLIN LEVER GUN IN .30-30. HAS TAKEN MORE WHITE TAIL DEER, BLACK BEAR, AND OTHER MEDIUM SIZED GAME, IN THE LOWER 48, THAN ANY OTHER RIFLE/AMMO COMBO......
TOGETHER, THEY MAKE A VERY VERSATILE PACKAGE......
The longest shot I ever made on a deer with a .30-30 was 120 yards (steps) but the rifle was a Winchester Model 54 Carbine with aperture sight.
It's not over 100 yards but it has potential. Had this 1941 vintage Winchester Model 94 .32 Winchester Special out a year ago this month sighting it in for deer season and pulled off the tightest 100-yard 5-shot group I ever made with it, or any other Winchester Model 94.
Light played havoc that afternoon. Best groups were fired when the sun was obscured, which is typical.
A heath issue arose requiring surgery which kept me out of the deer woods so didn't get to use the Winchester .32 Special last year. Perhaps this year ...
Last edited by bmcgilvray; 10-23-2018 at 06:58 PM.
I shoot my pre-64 Model 94 out to 200 yards on a regular basis on a deer vital organ sized target.
I've had tang sights on two of them and both have shot around 1 1/2 MOA with a tang sight with 150 gr handloads. My favorite has an old Marbles Tang site from the same era as the gun and it's a shooter.
And lately I'm been considering them in the "on the bright side" sense of things as there are few things I like better than walking in northern woods with a Model 94.
They've made some changes in DC with the result that rather than having a tour in DC two to four days a month and working in NC (where I live) the rest of the time, we're now supposed to be in DC four days a week.
I despise DC, I despise most of the people who live there, and I really do not enjoy working all that closely with our largely clueless leadership, so I (along with about half the people in the unit) have been looking for something else.
I'm on the short list for a state director position in MN, and while I'm not thrilled to have to move, one of the perks would be deer hunting in northern MN where my Model 94 would be near prefect. It's been relegated to range gun duty since I left the Black Hills in SD about 12 years ago when I transferred to the east coast. I think its looking forward to the potential move.
I own a number of good quality hunting rifles, most chambered for cartridges far more potent than the old .30-30, and I've taken dozens of deer and elk over the years. Looking back honestly, I can remember only a time or two when the .30-30 would not have done just as well, and been a lot lighter and easier to carry all day.
I have never used my bathrobe sash as a sling. Must be a regional thing.
The crowd that bad mouths 30/30s usually knows very little about the cartridge or hunting. I constantly hear that a 30/30
is responsible for many wounded deer. I personally think besides
the stick and string, guys with 4x12 scopes blasting away at deer
at 400-500yds are the ones responsible for bulk of wounded deer
I have a 1894 Win 30/30 but my favorite keeper is a Marlin 336
Marauder 16" barrel/ Lyman 66 reciever sights. I have put a K3
on it once in a while. I have loaded Speer 130hp/35.0gr 748 Win
at approx 2600fps and shot 100yd groups of 1"-11/2" average.These are pointed HPs so they have to be single loaded
in tube magazine guns. At 60yds I can do the same rested with
reciever sight. I would not hesitate at a 150yd deer. I have shot
to 400yds benched and hit 12" gongs with scope. My furthest deer with 30/30 would be around 100yds because of nature of
thickets where I carry this rifle. My longest shot on deer was
with a BA 308 Win 70 shooting the same bullet/47.0gr IMR 4895
at approx 3000fps. One of the old writers, Jack O maybe, said
anyone who can't take a 30/30 into the woods and come out with
a deer has no bussiness in the woods. I would like to get my hands on a 788 Rem 30/30 just to see what I could wring out
of it.
Funny you mention spire pointed .30 cal bullets, because I am building a short magazine Rossi Rio Grande for pointy bullets. Makes it a 2-shooter purely for hunting, but I am convinced that with 168 grain Winchester ballistic tip bullets loaded in 30-30 cases I can keep up with the lower end of .308, making this Rossi a deer slayer out past 200.
Till I get that one done, 30-30 does all I need it to for deer in the Maine woods. We have been killing them for 65,000 years with pointy sticks and strings, so it's a bit more useful than those.
Many years ago, a friend and I were in our “30/30 phase,” convinced we could do it do it all, elk, deer, antelope, etc. with the ol’ dirty thirty. And we mostly did. Long story short, he killed a mule deer with a 34” inside spread at what had to be 350-400 yds. with a ‘94 carbine in some wide open desert country. This was in the pre-rangefinder days so I can’t say for sure, but we paced it out at very close to 400 yds. He didn’t get it on the first shot but he did get it. God looks after fools and children. I would never try a stunt like that now, but I really believe the 30/30 is capable way beyond what we give it credit for.
I am having really good luck - accuracy and increased fps - with the Hornady Leverevolution 160 gr. It is essentially a hollow point with a plastic tip. Load up your lever magazine - no worries. Did I mention hollow point expansion? I haven't taken a muley or elk with this bullet, because my hunting terrain needs to extend to 300 yds., requiring a different rifle and a scope. It's my back up rifle, though. I think you could make a deadly round out of this to 200 yds. with 30.30. Muzzle velocity 2400 fps and 200 yd. fps 1900 shouldn't be discounted by any NA four-leggeds. google.
I'm basically a pre 64 Win rifle guy. I don't shoot anything but
standard loads in 1894 Wins. I've always thought the 336 action
to be stronger. I'm not shooting crazy loads in Marlin either. I
wouldn't risk damaging my Marauder, it's worth as much or more
than a pre 64/ 1894. I haven't went the heavy bullet route. My
experimenting has been with light bullets to flatten out trajectory.
I have loaded several 110-115 gr bullets intended for 30 carbine
the Speer 110 Varmiter HP does well in the Marlin. I also loaded
Hornady 100gr 1/2 jacket Plinkers at 1200fps and at 50yds they
shoot like a 22. The weak link in 30/30 is the brass. In a rifle
like a 788Rem you could form 30/30 out of 375W brass and run
it into 308 range.
I would have to agree with DRM 50 in part. A lot of guys who put 4-12X scopes on deer rifles are hunting in the east where most shots are well within 100 yards. At woods ranges, field-of-view is far more important than raw magnification (you can't have both).
Yes, the .30-30 Win., along with the .35 Rem chambered in a Marlin, make excellent woods rifles.
You're in NC. Yet you say "Here in the east most shots are well within 100 yards". WRONG. Only if you're hunting in the woods. We have large bean/peanut fields/powerline right of ways/long cut lanes and other equally areas where you can reach out and touch one at several hundred yards. Don't stereotype us as living in jungle. Cause it ain't that way.
All my rifles wear minimum 3x9x44 or 50mm high quality scopes. The big scopes dialed down to 3X give lots more light/clarity and field of view in the woods than the smaller scopes.
I use a 30/30 and a .35 but use them where my shots won't be over 150 yards or so although the cartridge's capability is good for farther distances.
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S&W Accumulator
Last edited by Mike, SC Hunter; 10-23-2018 at 10:27 PM.
I've taken dozens of deer hunting in Arkansas, Mississippi, and northern Louisiana in past 35 years or so. Only one did I take with a shot over a hundred yards, and that one was about 260 yards with a M1 Garand.
I'd say 80% of my kills have been 75 yards or closer, about a quarter of them with a .30-30 out of a Marlin 336 or Winchester 94 and have never had one get away using that round. In fact, because of the close range I've been taking deer the past few years I've been using a couple of different .357 magnum lever guns for deer hunting with excellent success.
I shot my first deer with a model 94 saddle ring carbine in 25-35. I have shot a lot of game out west in the land of wide open spaces. Probably over 80/ has been under 100 yds. I would like to own a twin to that first gun, but serious hunting with it or a 30/30 would only be a nostalgia hunt. To many other combinations of gun and ammo that are superior ballisticlly, accuracy and too me even handling. I am not willing to give up those lo get opportunities
The Winchester model 94 is one of many John Moses Browning's timeless classics. 124 years later it's still one of the most popular deer rifles and cartage in the USA.
It always amazes me when anyone puts a bullet behind the powder and then gets it even to go off, much less make a nice group...
Have I been doing it wrong all these years? I've had better luck putting the bullet on top of the powder. As for making 30-30 brass from 375W brass, that would be like making 10$ bills from 20$ bills. 30-30's are so cheap & readily available & 375's are (or were) scarce and expensive.
I just bought 2 boxes of Hornady 90gr XTPs they are labeled 30cal but are .309" Dia. They are pistol bullets. When I get time
I'm going to try them out and see how fast I can run them if they
will group. I've done a lot of fooling around with light bullets in
30cal rifles but never shot .309" bullets. General opinions are that .001" will not make any difference as far as over pressure.
If they will group a 90gr XTP at 2500 to 3000 fps will be like a bomb. Will only be good for Varmits. I think Sierra makes a spire
point around 86gr for single shot pistols, that is another one I want to try.
I just bought 2 boxes of Hornady 90gr XTPs they are labeled 30cal but are .309" Dia. They are pistol bullets. When I get time
I'm going to try them out and see how fast I can run them if they
will group. I've done a lot of fooling around with light bullets in
30cal rifles but never shot .309" bullets. General opinions are that .001" will not make any difference as far as over pressure.
If they will group a 90gr XTP at 2500 to 3000 fps will be like a bomb. Will only be good for Varmits. I think Sierra makes a spire
point around 86gr for single shot pistols, that is another one I want to try.
For $0.10 to $0.12 each, depending on quantity you can buy .308 diameter sabots for .22 caliber projectiles. With a 55 gr bullet and a 20" barrel you can exceed .223 velocity and still be well under the 43,000 psi pressure limit.
Powder type - IMR-4198
Load Density Charge Weight Velocity Pressure
% GR FPS PSI
75 30.2 3300 35500
80 32.2 3500 40300
It's on my list of things to try when I get time and or retire. I also have a 14" Contender in .30-30 and I'm wondering how well they'd work in that as well.
I've seen hotter loads, but you need to read your sabots and back off if you start seeing the petals getting blown off due to excessive velocity, or not separating at all.
I have shot 110 gr FMJ M1 Carbine bullets through one of my .30-30s as well as Hornady 100 grain half jacket bullets. I've gotten the former up to just over 2700 fps using H335 and the latter to just under 2900 fps using H335. Accuracy wasn't stellar and the BCs are low so it's still a short range load.
My preferred load in the .30-30 is BLC-2 under a 150 gr Hornady RNSP.
I have went the sabot route. You may get the velocity but I have
yet to find a rifle that will shoot them accurately. I have tried
30/30. 308 & 30/06. I also tried the Rem saboted ammo when
it came out. It all prooved to be so inacurate that it wasn't interesting. I have herd all kind of outstanding results with this
stuff but everyone I know has nothing good to say about it. I
think sabots would work better in large bore LV calibres. I only
say that because they seem to do ok in Muzzel loaders.
I have went the sabot route. You may get the velocity but I have
yet to find a rifle that will shoot them accurately. I have tried
30/30. 308 & 30/06. I also tried the Rem saboted ammo when
it came out. It all prooved to be so inacurate that it wasn't interesting. I have herd all kind of outstanding results with this
stuff but everyone I know has nothing good to say about it. I
think sabots would work better in large bore LV calibres. I only
say that because they seem to do ok in Muzzel loaders.
I wonder if I could 3D print .458 caliber sabots to launch .224 caliber bullets from my .45-70 Sharps? It would be my Buffalo/Varmint rifle.
Edit: Yes, I know a .22 Hornet insert might be more feasible, but what fun would that be?
I've heard it said all my life that the .30-30 has taken far more deer than any other caliber. I can believe it.
I foolishly sold a Marlin 336 before I had a chance to take a deer with it, but it was one sweet rifle, very accurate. I sold it to buy a Remington 700 ADL in .243, which I loved for varmints and deer, but I wish I had kept the Marlin.
In the late " 70's " a guy stopped by where I was working wanting to sell me his " like new " marlin 336 for $75 . He had just got a divorce and needed gas money to get to texas . I grabbed my wallet , paid the man and have kept it all these yrs . I cast bullets for it , the Lyman 173 gas checked design . I load them " on top " of a nice charge of IMR 3031. Works for me and my sister , who has a stainless version of same gun . Regards, Paul
Growing up in upstate NY the Win 94 30-30 was rifle of choice for deer (or black bear...same season..only one or the other allowed on your tag).
So.........for 4 legged game Model 94 in 30-30. Proven for more than 100 years.
For 2 legged "game" during conflict time? The M1-Garand of course....also "proven" countless times over the last 80 years.
I agree with other posters, better equipment definitely available, calibers, optics...sniper quality stuff that will reach out probably to 1000 yards.........but...for me at least I strongly believe the oldies will still get the job done when needed.
Sorry all............this is what comes from posting while on my work computer......The pic of the KING Vertical Turret Lathe certainly does not belong with classic rifles.......
On the other hand I've (well....the company has) got this 1952 machine up for sale...in excellent shape....so if you really want to "make your own" "10 pounders" from raw stock, or ??? let me know.
Sorry all............this is what comes from posting while on my work computer......The pic of the KING Vertical Turret Lathe certainly does not belong with classic rifles.......
On the other hand I've (well....the company has) got this 1952 machine up for sale...in excellent shape....so if you really want to "make your own" "10 pounders" from raw stock, or ??? let me know.
And I thought you were rechambering to 300-300.
With those machines how about a lever gun in 460?
The 30-30 has been getting the job done for a loooooooooong time. When I was in college in the early-2000s, my roommate hunted with an old Marlin 336 and he regularly killed big deer. Open sights, with 150-gr Remington Core-Lokt ammo, only thing he added was an old M1907-style sling. IIRC his longest kill was 230 yards.
Last two deer I got was with my old Model 94. And if I went out into the deer woods tomorrow, that’s just what I’d grab.
As far as deer rifles go, the higher velocity rifles are only good to extend
range. Also because of flatter ballistics allows greater success for hunters that do little shooting other than a few check shots.
"I have shot 110 gr FMJ M1 Carbine bullets through one of my .30-30s as well as Hornady 100 grain half jacket bullets. I've gotten the former up to just over 2700 fps using H335 and the latter to just under 2900 fps using H335. Accuracy wasn't stellar and the BCs are low so it's still a short range load."
Some years back, I came into about 5000 pulled GI 30 Carbine FMJ bullets (around 107 grains) very cheaply. I have fired them in about every .30 rifle I have - .30 Carbine, .30-30, .30 Remington, .30-'06. .308, .300 Savage, .303 Savage, and 7.5 Swiss. I have even used them for 7.62 Russian. For the most part I have always used faster powders such as Unique, Herco, 2400, and IMR 4227 and I can say that the .30 Carbine bullets shoot well in all of them with all powders. Cheap shooting.
At one time I had two Savage Model 340 bolt action rifles - one in .222 Remington and one in .30-30. The 340 has an ungainly appearance, but it shoots very well. One big advantage of the 340 is that, being a bolt action, you can use any .30 bullet weight and style you want when loading for a .30-30. I still occasionally see 340s at gun shows and they are usually relatively inexpensive.
Nice shooting OP, I'll bet that rifle could tell a few tails...
Don't let anyone tell you the 30-30 is not an inherently accurate cartridge. Back when I lived in CT, I had a shooting buddy who had a Remington 788 bolt action rifle in 30-30. I believe he had a 4x12 scope on it. He handloaded for it, using Sierra match bullets. Our range at the time went out to 200 meters. If I told you the groups he was getting at 200m from the bench, you might call me a liar. He was giving me good competition with my HB .308 model 700.
Me, I like this cartridge in its natural home, the model 94.
The Hornady 100gr 1/2 Jacket I have never tried to run HV. My best HV
Varmit load for 30/30 ( 336 Marlin ) is the Speer Varmiter 110hp. I had
some Win 110gr Spire Points several years ago and would shot well out
of 30/30s. When I was in the Army down in Texas, I bought a used 340
Sav 30/30 and a Lee Loader. All I bought were primers. I broke down uncle sam's 7.62 down and used the powder and bullet. A Lifer gun nut
gave me a 7.62 case cut off for a charge measure that he had figured out
long before I came along.
Well, this is one of those threads, that you love the 30-30 or not. 50 years ago, I had a beautiful Model 94 in 32 Win Spl. More or less the same bullet as a 30-30. it was a beauty, fun to shoot, and hunting accuracy was more than acceptable, but IMHO it had its' limitations depending on where you were hunting. I am not a belted magnum shooter, but i believe there are better choices than the 30-30. I wish I had kept my M94 for its' fun to shoot and beauty, but i have no regrets swapping the 30-30 cal out for a 308.
Oh, and I'm not sure the 30-30 has taken more deer than any other rifle. My guess might be the 22lr
If you are hunting thick cover where shots are usually under 100 yds a rifle in 30/30, 32sp or 35R is no disadvantage. If you only own one rifle
and hunt different covers then there are better choices.
Winchester 94 out past 100 yards
Dont'cha hate being right all the time. 
THAT WOULD AMAZE ME TOO.
30-30's are so cheap & readily available & 375's are (or were) scarce and expensive.
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