INGRAM M11

CLASSIC12 · Apr 16, 2019

While buying a bunch of ammo from a retired gentleman, he showed me a full auto gun he was selling, an INGRAM M11, with MAC / Cobray / RPB markings, chambered in .380 ACP.

From Wikipedia : The rate of fire of the M-11A1 is one of the biggest complaints on the firearm. Listed as approximately 1,200 rpm the MAC-11 is capable of emptying the entire 32-round magazine in less than two seconds, which many users view as a drawback.

Rate of fire will also vary depending on the weight of bullets used. The gun also has a selector switch that allows it to fire only one round at a time in the semi-automatic mode.

Noting the weapon's poor accuracy, in the 1970s International Association of Police Chiefs weapons researcher David Steele described the MAC series as "fit only for combat in a phone booth."

SuperMan · Apr 16, 2019

I was a Class III dealer in the 1980s and 1990s and sold a bunch of M11s in .380. It would empty a 32 round magazine in 1.5 seconds. With a suppressor on the bullets could be heard impacting the target....

If you bought three at a time I think they were $169.00 each. They now bring $5-8K.... I had three left when I closed up shop in the late 1990s that went to another dealer in Massachusetts.

Really a shame that the 1986 GUN OWNERS PROTECTION ACT did nothing in the way of "protecting" us...we were taken on that deal...

Bob

ps...just noticed that one doesn't have the threaded barrel....all the ones I got in did...

6518John · Apr 16, 2019

What an amazing forum!

Talk about depth and breath of firearms coverage. I doubt, although I have no need to look being a member here, there is another forum out there that addresses such a wide range of firearms.

We have the above and below posted about in the same week. Talk about a contrast!

forindooruseonly · Apr 16, 2019

SuperMan said:
ps...just noticed that one doesn't have the threaded barrel....all the ones I got in did...

I wonder if that is because it was exported? My understanding was that the original downfall of MAC was the restrictions on selling the suppressor overseas, and the Sionics suppressor was the big selling point of the M10 - once that was banned from export, it killed the sales of the gun. So, maybe RPB didn't thread the barrels in order to stay clear of export issues?

I have a Powder Springs M10, which is simple enough, but it strikes me every time I see later manufacturers' versions of the M10 and M11 just how crude they became.

CLASSIC12 · Apr 16, 2019

Received this post on another forum :

That's a MAC Powder Springs M11 with the RPB overstamp. It was originally sold at the MAC bankruptcy auction in 1978, and RPB acquired lots of them. The barrel threads for the suppressor have been milled off, as at that time, the US Secretary of State office would not allow export of Ingrams with the ability to be suppressed.
New mags for the small mag M11 have been available for several years that work actually better than the MAC made ones. Lage Manufacturing and others carry them.
Note also that this model has the added stamp "K" after the 9mm marking, that was added by MAC as an afterthought to avoid confusing this with 9mm para.

ISCS Yoda · Apr 16, 2019

A friend of mine has one. Not a big favorite of mine. Fun to spray a magazine load of bullets down range, as long as he's paying for the bullets.

Question:

... he showed me a full auto gun he was selling, an INGRAM M11, with MAC / Cobray / RPB markings, chambered in .380 ACP.

How does he plan to sell it? It's a felony unless it goes through a Class III FFL dealer. I will presume it was possessed before 1986:

Federal law prohibits the possession of newly manufactured machine guns, but permits the transfer of machine guns lawfully owned prior to May 19, 1986 (if the transfer is approved by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives).

I stole that comment from some anti-gun lawyer's blog so I refuse to acknowledge him on here. I hope the monitors don't mind. It was the first website I could find quickly that had a nice simple statement of the current state of the law. As a lawyer I couldn't come up with a better, pithier way of putting it.

It's quite a project to sell a Class III weapon like that. If he has a buyer then the buyer has to submit paperwork and 200 bucks to the ATF through a Class III dealer, wait for the approval and the tax stamp, and then take possession of the gun through that dealer. I am pretty sure that's the only by-the-book way to do it.

If he doesn't have a buyer then he will have to transfer the gun directly to a dealer/the dealer buys it, and then the seller is done with it and the dealer can find a buyer at his leisure.

CLASSIC12 · Apr 16, 2019

I live in Switzerland, so does the gun. Entirely different laws here.

Sistema1927 · Apr 16, 2019

About as elegant as the M3A1 "Grease Gun" that we had onboard the M60A1/A3 tanks.

SuperMan · Apr 18, 2019

..I'd still take the .380 over the 9mm or .45 anyday.....

Bob

SLT223 · Apr 18, 2019

It blows my mind what people are willing to pay for them here in States. I thought they were expensive junk 20 years ago when they were $1000.

ExRanger714 · Apr 18, 2019

There was a video of a young boy firing one and it rotated on his index finger and he managed to shoot and kill himself. Hang on tight!

Alpo · Apr 19, 2019

ISCS Yoda - you are incorrect on a couple of things.

First, the sale does NOT have to go through a dealer, any more than the sale of a rifle or pistol has to go through a dealer. ONLY IF THE TRANSFER IS CROSSING STATE LINES. My last machinegun purchase was private.

Second, the buyer doesn't send anything to the ATF. The buyer has no status. The SELLER sends in the paperwork. If you wanted to buy my gun, you get all your paperwork filled out, with pictures and prints and all that happy horse kaka. Don't forget, two copies of everything. Give ME all your paperwork, and $200 for the tax, and I'LL send it in.

And don't forget the most important part. Pay for it, completely, in advance. Because if the paperwork comes back approved, it is no longer my gun, it is yours. Me being in possession of it is a Federal felony. I need to hand it over to you toot sweet. And if you have not finished paying for it, and decide you don't wish to pay any more, I can't keep it. All I can do is sue you, later.

CAJUNLAWYER · Apr 19, 2019

I don't make enough money to pay for the bullets

PALADIN85020 · Apr 19, 2019

The last man on earth I would have argued with would have been John Wayne with an M11...

John

KEN L · Apr 19, 2019

PALADIN85020 said:
The last man on earth I would have argued with would have been John Wayne with an M11...

John

Well, he was, that's an M10 9mm he's firing there. Much bigger, slower firing, subgun than the M11. I used to have them all, but now the only one left is the little .380. What a bullet hose!

6518John · Apr 19, 2019

ExRanger714 said:
There was a video of a young boy firing one and it rotated on his index finger and he managed to shoot and kill himself. Hang on tight!

That was an Uzi i believe, if we are talking about the same incident.

ExRanger714 · Apr 19, 2019

John: I think you are right on my Uzi/Ingram mixup.

JD

Jellybean · Apr 20, 2019

They have better magazines? I'll have to look into them, that was the only drawback to the weapon.

And the remark about the gun only being suitable for combat in a phone booth is hilarious. Although I guess it's better those types call themselves "gun experts" than "airline pilots".

The high cyclic rate could result in a bit of muzzle climb, but it was controllable if fired properly and it was easy to fire four round bursts with a little practice. And if distance or configuration made accuracy difficult, it has that little semi-auto switch...

INGRAM M11

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