The "Grease gun" - a retrospective...

[DWalt]

Back for a moment to the "Swedish K". The K means Kpist, an abbreviation for kulsprutepistol, meaning submachinegun or machine pistol. The Carl Gustav M/45 was popularly known as the Kpist M/45. So "Swedish K" simply means Swedish submachinegun.

I remember back in the late 1950s, for a brief time someone was selling a legal Kpist M/45 in the USA that fired only blanks. I remember reading about it, but no other details. Maybe someone knows more.

I have heard Kpist pronounced as Kaw-Peest. Correct or not, I can't say, as I know nothing about Swedish pronunciation.

 

[Ed Fowler]

If you want to be a writer, don't worry about the grammar and spelling too much, that is the editors job. I consider my editor my partner in every article I write. Any editor who jumps on you for something minor in an article is one you don't want to work for.

I feel we desperately need writers who have something worthwhile to say.

 

[Donn]

Never fired a Riesing, have handled them. Gun wasn't junk, just
not a good combat design. Not a throw in mud gun. There were
a lot of M3s in RVN, not to hard to come up with if you wanted
one. Thompsons were a different story, very scarce. Guys that
had them had to sleep with them. Most got passed to a buddy
when owner DEROSed. A lot of guys had chopped m2 carbines.

Interesting. I had a Thompson in-country, it was no big thing. Just used it for picture taking or impressing new guys and REMF's. Never took it outside the wire. The old sarge had an M3, it was strictly a picture taker too. Accumulated a couple M2 carbines also. We could carry anything we wanted, but were required to take our M-16 and basic load any time we left the wire. Given the stifling heat and everything else we had to hump, I didn't take anything more than I had to. Wound up giving all that swag away or turning it in to the armorer. Had I known how easily I would slide thru Customs on the way back to the world, I would've brought something with me. Oh well.

 

[Drm50]

When I got to SETAC, we were all lined up outside the customs
area. Word came back the line they were searching everything.
We all started throwing contraband in a dumpster. No one wanted
any hassles at this stage. We got in building and they hardly
looked at anything. I would liked to have had the job of cleaning
out that dumpster. I wouldn't doubt that happened to every
plane load. I know more than one 1911 went into it.

 

[Telecaster]

The Germans experimented with curved barrels for their MP 38s and MP 40s, and also for the StG 44 assault rifle. Our Ordnance Corps developed a similar barrel for the M3/M3A1. The idea was to allow soldiers inside a vehicle such as a tank to poke the gun from a hatch or other opening and "sweep" the outside of the vehicle from enemy soldiers.

An alternate usage was to shoot around corners - this was an inexact science, although some efforts were made to craft a crude periscope-like optical sight for such use. These barrels wore out very quickly; the whole scheme was never a sterling idea.

John

Yikes!

 

[BigBill]

Steve McQueen used one and he's the king of Kool.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wsfiB-X6J7c[/ame]

 

[JayCeeNC]

Another good "Grease Gun" movie is the Australian flick from 1982 "Attack Force Z." An then-unknown Mel Gibson stars, and his little special ops group uses suppressed M3s.
The US Army SFOD-D (Delta Force) used M3s in their formative years, 1979-early 80s, as they were pretty much restricted to what was in the supply chain.
The April, 1980 "Desert One" aborted Delta Force Iranian hostage rescue mission resulted in a plane/helicopter crash in the Iranian desert. Some of the pictures of the aftermath show burnt M3s in the aircraft wreckage.

 

[jag312]

One of my friends had a dewat M3 in college that he paid $25 mail order. The good old days. When he heard about the Amnesty, he was going to reactivate the M3 and register it. The M3 was lightly dewatted by welding the chamber and one small weld to keep the barrel from being unscrewed from the receiver and could easily be cut with a hacksaw. He even bought a new barrel. Then the M3 disappeared. He is still convinced that his college roommate stole it and registered it for himself. My friend still has the new barrel for the M3.

 

[old tanker]

Fondly remembered

As another retired tanker, I have more than a passing familiarity with the grease gun. In 20 plus years, all of the guns I saw in the Army, except two, were produced by Guide Lamp. I did see one Ithaca produced M3A1 in a Wisconsin National Guard arms room in the Eighties and another on a Form 4 for sale by a vendor at Knob Creek 20 some years ago.

It is my understanding that the Army surplussed some M3's, with the cocking handle, to PD's and such during the Fifties. Those guns are, relatively speaking, the version most commonly available. Very few transferable M3A1's are out there. The Ithaca I saw was an "amnesty gun" that got papered in 1968.

The "grease gun" was part of the vehicle equipment, AKA "BII" (basic issue items) on tanks, recovery, and armored engineer vehicles. When As a First Sergeant in the 1st AD, I carried one in the field (in addition to my 1911) because my Arms Room had a couple to spare and the Armorer worked for me.

During the first Gulf war, many Armor units had the good fortune to still be armed with the M1911A1 as the infantry had the priority for the M9.

In RVN, the MPs on Long Bihn unsuccessfully tried to "confiscate" grease guns from my tank crew as "unauthorized." As was mentioned earlier, the Thompson was much coveted, and I passed mine on to another tank commander when I DEROSed. The tank made it much easier to carry such useful additions outside the wire, although it did work well for the obligatory "hero" shot to show the grandkids.

 

[old tanker]

I always thought that there had to be loaders for these weapons ??

There was a separate loader for the M3. Among other improvements, the M3A1 had a magazine loader made as part of the stock. On both guns the stock also doubled as a cleaning rod. The barrel nut on the M3A1 included "flats" so the stock could be used as a wrench to loosen it. The oiler was also different, clipped to the side of the M3 and integral to the pistol grip on the M3A1.

 

[Drm50]

I was in 1/44th in MR-1, they struck their colors and deactivated.
I guy gave me his Thompson we were getting transferred to
other units and he didn't want to drag a unauthorized weapon
with him. I took stock off and had it packed in center of duffle
bag. Got sent to Central Highlands MR-2, Pleiku. When got off
plane, MPs were checking orders and duffle for contraband. They
took my Thompson. I wasnt happy
they said it had to be turned in.
2 days later was at air field to hop a flite to my new assignment.
MP was leaning up against a beam with my Thompson beside
him. The stinking MPs wanted it for themselves.

 

[PALADIN85020]

If you want to be a writer, don't worry about the grammar and spelling too much, that is the editors job. I consider my editor my partner in every article I write. Any editor who jumps on you for something minor in an article is one you don't want to work for.

I feel we desperately need writers who have something worthwhile to say.

Filed in my memory of arcane trivia is the fact that Elmer Keith was horrible with spelling and grammar. However his writings shared so much knowledge not in general circulation that his editors worked overtime to get his stuff into print.

On the other hand, the guy I consider to be THE guru, Jeff Cooper, was a master of the English language and his vocabulary was immense. If there wasn't a word for something, he would coin it himself, and it often stuck, witness hoplophobe.

As for pure enjoyment, I don't think anyone will ever match Skeeter Skelton. His characters, such as "Dobe Grant," were priceless.

Technically, Dean Grennell was superb for reloading knowledge, as was George Nonte.

And of course, Bill Jordan and Charlie Askins Jr. had seen the elephant, been there and done that. I'd sit at their feet to learn anytime.

I loved reading them all, and very few can come close to matching these icons of gun writing.

John

 

[Ed Fowler]

Along with those you mentioned, Harvey Donaldson was another favorite of mine, most of his writing was from his own knowledge and he shared without reserve.

Ken Waters was another great that I doubt will ever be equaled.

I have to add Gill Hebard.

 

[Drm50]

There will not be any writers to equal the "Old Guard". They lived
what they wrote. There may be new guys come up, that have the technical knowledge, but the chance for the life experiences
the old writers had is long gone. There is not much romance
coming off a range, a lot different than coming in off the Range.

 

[DWalt]

Back in the days when I was involved in USAF small arms (over 10 years ago), the USAF was taking over convoy duty in the sandbox. There was a lot of talk about pulling M3A1s out of storage for use by convoy personnel as they were small, handy, and effective, and it seemed like a natural fit for that duty instead of an M16 or M4. But to the best of my knowledge, it never happened. There were lots of M3A1s in storage at Anniston Army Depot at the time. Probably they've by now all been fed to Captain Crunch.

 

[chud333]

Yikes!

From "Life" magazine years ago......


Curved Barrel Machine Gun, 1953
Curved Barrel Machine Gun, 1953 The 20th century saw many astounding technological innovations. The automobile revolutionized the way people live and work, the internet changed the way people think about information, and the U.S. of A put a man on the moon. But some technological advances that came in the earlier part of the 20th centry weren't exactly meant for the history books. Because they were stupid. Take, for example, this M3 sub-machine gun with a curved barrel for shooting around corners. It's the perfect gun for the "shoot first, look where you're shooting later" kind of guy. Photo: Keystone/Getty Images Jan 12, 1952


Chuck

 

[Skeetr57]

I was on Army active duty from 1966 to 1986, in VN 1969- 1970 and I never saw a real Thompson in use, nor did I see US issued M1 or M1A1s. The South Vietnamese had M1/M1A1 sub machine guns though. My unit picked up an M1A1 off a dead VC that had a bad barrel. I got a new barrel from a friend assigned to the South Vietnamese Ordnance School and re-barreled it, then used it for a while as a vehicle gun. I also had an M3 for a while, but never fired it. The M1A1 was accurate and because of its slow rate of fire could be kept on target pretty well. We also had a Swedish K around for a while that I shot a good bit, and it was also accurate. Someone drug in a brand new Chicom pps43 that we also shot. It was the loudest gun I have ever fired! We had a number of M2 carbines that were picked up from Vietnamese who were medevaced, but I never found one that would fire a full magazine of 30 rounds without jamming.
A problem with the M3's was that they would often fire if they were dropped with a loaded magazine installed. That heavy bolt would go back far enough to strip off a round when it hit the ground, but not far enough to engage the sear.

 

[2152hq]

My Dad was a Tanker (Sherman driver) 20th Armored Div/7th Tank Group in Europe WW2. They were issued the M3 after having trained with the TSMG.
He liked the Tsmg as a weapon OK but inside the Sherman it was too big and heavy to exit the small drivers hatch with in a hurry.
The M3 was liked much better by the crews and kept close at hand, sometimes right in your lap, unlike the Thompson that usually ended up hanging on a hook somewhere just out of reach inside the turret.
He did say the rate of fire was a bit slow for his liking but it was reliable.

The ability to self fire when thrown onto a hard surface wasn't welcomed. One night when changing guard watch a soldier coming in dropped his M3 onto a wooden table in a farm house in Holland they had chosen to
catch a little rest.
The grease gun went on it's own & emptied part of the magazine as it jumped around on the table.No one was hit. The soldier had to find another place to sleep for the rest of the night.

Not very accurate he said, but if you had to clear some structure or rooms, it did what you needed it to do.
Always taped 2 magazines together.

 

[wlewisiii]

Regular Army on M-60 series tanks (19E) and served as unit armorer. You can count me as one of those who despised those Expletives. My 1911 could shoot faster, more accurately and far more reliably than the M-3/M-3A1 (we had some of both in Germany). No trouble with the cocking handle but the magazines were hideous. Painful to load and we never got through a full one without multiple failures to feed. I once got to turn in about half our magazines for ones still in late 40s brown paper and they were even worse. I always planned on grabbing the M240 coax if I had to bail out of my tank and leaving my grease gun behind for some unlucky Soviet soldier to find.

 

[Texas Star]

Filed in my memory of arcane trivia is the fact that Elmer Keith was horrible with spelling and grammar. However his writings shared so much knowledge not in general circulation that his editors worked overtime to get his stuff into print.

On the other hand, the guy I consider to be THE guru, Jeff Cooper, was a master of the English language and his vocabulary was immense. If there wasn't a word for something, he would coin it himself, and it often stuck, witness hoplophobe.

As for pure enjoyment, I don't think anyone will ever match Skeeter Skelton. His characters, such as "Dobe Grant," were priceless.

Technically, Dean Grennell was superb for reloading knowledge, as was George Nonte.

And of course, Bill Jordan and Charlie Askins Jr. had seen the elephant, been there and done that. I'd sit at their feet to learn anytime.

I loved reading them all, and very few can come close to matching these icons of gun writing.

John

Back in the early 1960's, I wrote to Field & Stream' s Warren Page about a statement that Jeff Cooper had made about Colt or Remngton .44 revolvers being better weapons than Springfield .58 rifles.

Page, having no idea that he was writing back to a kid, said, "Who is Jeff Cooper? We had a gink who used to write camera stuff for us. He is now doing an interesting job of copying both information and misinformation about a variety of topics and selling articles elsewhere." He went on to point out the many thousands of casualties caused by those .58 Springfields and .577 Enfields.

I assume that before long, he realized that Jeff Cooper wasn't anything like the gink that he knew. In fact, Cooper was probably more famous than Page. Few today comment on Page.

Both were real wordsmiths, though. I think Warren had been a schoolmaster at a private prep school and had a master's degree in English. Cooper was also a very talented writer. I saved a few of his letters.

Jack O'Connor was also a former college professor, who created the Journalism program at the Univ. of AZ. He is the sole gun writer who received nice obituaries in major newspapers.

John H. Wootters, Jr. was also a splendid writer, and he was a very talented photographer. He wrote a book on outdoor photography. And of course, books like, "Hunting Trophy Deer."

It's true that Elmer had serious language difficulties. I think his ongoing quarrel with O'Connor was in part due to Elmer feeling socially inferior to O'Connor. Both had a lot of field experience, but Jack cared relatively little for handguns, and Elmer was much the more knowledgeable man there.

Elmer Keith was probably unique in having so much original knowledge and so many fans that he got away with editorial shortcomings that wouldn't have been tolerated from anyone else. He was also the only guy who I ever saw pour Scotch in his tea at breakfast. Said he picked up the habit from his white hunter on safari. I like tea and I like some Scotches, but I never cared for that idea. I guess it warmed Elmer's old body and lifted his spirits. Try it, if you like and tell us how you like it. BTW, he really could shoot like he said he could. I saw him fire a .44 Magnum off of a bench at 200 yards when he was, I think, 78. He complained about his fading vision, but you wouldn't have wanted to be his target, even at that range!

I think Brian Pearce is the closest that we now have to Elmer Keith, with the added advantage of being a good writer.