With the advent of the short barreled pistol grip shotguns that are appearing everywhere, what is the consensus on the "ideal" version for home defense?

.410 Gauge
20 Gauge
12 Gauge

Curious what would be a good compromise for all adult family members without the "tactical, kill them all", "better tried by 12 than carried by six", etc, mentality viewpoint.

I have a 12 gauge pistol grip shotgun and it is a handful to shoot. I also have a 20 gauge with a short grip and its much easier to handle and lighter too. I prefer the 20 gauge. Of course i am old and stupid per my wife so take my opinion with a grain of salt i spose. If i got another 12 gauge i would get a semi-auto as they have less recoil. My ideal would be a 20 gauge semi-auto.

I'd say 20 gauge, due to less recoil.

Pistol-grip shotguns can be hard to shoot. Practice with one so that, if you ever have to use one, you can use it effectively. Shooting from the hip doesn't cut it. You'll miss.



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I have a 12 ga Shockwave and the ergonomics of the grip, in my opinion, reduce the felt recoil over a pistol grip making it easier to control. Pistol grips tend to recoil up and back as opposed to the Shockwave's more direct recoil into the grip, at least for me.

I put a box of 20 gauge target loads ( 2 1/2 dram 7/8 oz #8) through my shockwave yesterday afternoon and my hands were a bit stiff and sore this morning. IOW, the recoil is substantial even with a minimal loading.
For "all adult family members" I would pick the 410. There's plenty of self defense ammo in that gauge.

I would want a pistol-gripped shotgun in somebody else's home.

Pistol grip shotguns are difficult to handle in the best of circumstances . The Shockwave and the other ones like it are a bit better than one of the pistol grip types or the folding stock type but still a challenge. Much better to get a regular stock in either a pump or semi auto.Also nothing wrong with a double barrel coach gun for home defense either.

I bought a V3 Tac 13 semi-auto shotgun, 12 gauge. I am most pleased with it, perfect for home defense. With the versa max gas adjuster, the recoil is quite manageable.

"Youth model" short stock, minimum barrel, Remington 20ga 1100 is 10X more ergonomic and practical than any pistol grip shotgun. Compare to Clyde Barrow's "whip-it" shotgun.
90% of the people that come to the range with their new pistol-grip shotgun struggle to hit a plate at 25 feet, and would be shot dead 3X over by any regular shotgun competitor before getting off a shot, based on my timer.

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Science plus Art

Ideal HD gun will depend on several variables. Is over penetration an issue? Are you going to need a free hand to potentially hold a child? Do you need to leave your room to secure other family members?

If over penetration is a main concern, the ar15 is pretty much ideal.

If you need a hand free to hold a kid, handgun.

If you need to leave your room and navigate hallways, another strong case for handgun.

If none of these are concerns use whatever you shoot best.

A pistol grip only shotgun is never the best choicest.

When I was still professionally gunsmithing, I put together several 20 ga. Rem. M 1100 for customer's that wanted a home defense shotgun that their wife could handle. I liked that combo best with a short standard stock and a 18.5" bbl. I didn't feel that it was necessary to always go with a 20 ga. as my own widowed mother (all 110 lbs of her) handled a Rem. M 1100 in 12 ga. quite well. I taught her to clamp the stock under her arm and aim in at the target. With the shotgun's natural droop at initial positioning, the first shot was at the knee level. The second was slightly higher, etc. The fourth shot was at face level. I told her that was the point that she stopped and reloaded, put the shotgun down and called 911. Thankfully she never had to do any of that, but she said she slept well knowing that she had the shotgun standing muzzle down right beside her bed. I still have that shotgun today, 12 years after her passing. I never look at it without thinking of watching her shoot it while practicing at the range. ......

( Presuming the OP means Pistol Grip Only vs full stock that also has a funny pertrubence ) The best answer is don't use one .

The traditional pistol grip , that mimics the angle of a handgun grip is essentially useless . Difficult to hit anything, but with lousy control , and frequently painful to hand and wrist .

The " witness protection " style grip , such as seen on Shockwave , is comparitively better . But even in best case , is still highly specialized , and requires much practice to have a modicum of shooting effectiveness .

And the gage question isn't clear cut . Due to weight differences of the guns , not much difference between 12ga "Tactical" Buckshot , and standard 20ga Buckshot .

Recently I have become intrigued with the possibilities of .410 gage Buckshot . 3 to 5 pellets of 00B to 000B could be interesting, if they pattern acceptably . Alas my schedule has been too hectic , and haven't done pattern testing yet .

It was implied, but I'll restate - 20ga Buckshot is perfectly viable for SD ( 20ga slugs for that matter also , if inclined in those directions ) . Pellet for Pellet , large buckshot will be as effective whether launched from 12ga or .410 . But with the smaller payload in a .410 , you don't have margin of error , and the limiting factor is the distance to keep ALL the pellets with a vital area sized pattern .( Once I finally get to do my pattern testing , I'll come back to update this thread .

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An O/U in any gauge is more likely to be a 'fun gun' that you'll shoot far more, which is a real plus. There are those that believe you likely need more than a 1-2 punch with a 20 or 16 gauge with high-brass loads of any shot size, but I'm not one of those folks. If I need more shots, I'll break it open, let the empties fly, drop two more in and try once more.

A shotgun that you enjoy shooting is always a good choice.

I bought a Mossberg 500 PGO decades ago, and after a few shots, ordered a full length stock. The newer 14" guns have what is called a "bird's head" grip with a more relaxed angle. Still not pleasant to shoot with full power loads. Personally, a regular stocked 12 or 20 with the appropriate ammo (IMO means #2s through 00 buck) will do the job.

A friend and I patterned a .410 Shockwave with 00 Buck, #4 and 7 1/2 shot. The distances were 5 yards 10 yards and 15 yards. The 00 buck and the #4's both left big holes; 5 yard about 3/4", 10 yard about 3" and 15 yard around 5". The 7 1/2's were 3/4", 3" and about 7" at 15 yards.

My impression of home defense is that the activity is happening around 20' ( ~3 yards) or less. I'm now questioning the advantage of the Shockwave over that of a revolver.

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Mike Maher #283

Hi All,

Low brass bird shot (6's or 8's) or low recoil shells should be the ticket.

NEVER even think about shooting a slug in a pistol grip shotgun!
I was a young & stupid 19 year old. Thought it can't be much more kick, if I really braced myself. I was in serious error!
I still have a dandy scar were the trigger guard caught my trigger finger.

Has anyone tried the MINI shotgun shells that have been on the market a few years?

Good luck,
Broom 96

Uh, if you divide 20 feet by 3 you get 6+ yards.

I prefer the Hurricane Butterfly Typhoon 12 'firearm' the brace makes a huge difference!

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I currently have a pair of Remington 12" 870WP shotguns and a Mossberg 14" 590 Mariner from back in the 80s or 90s.

I have been shooting these types of guns for 25-30 years now.

Back in the olden days, Remington made 1 3/4" shells for the 870WP. Now you had to put a special elevator in there to make them work right. I believe the current 870 has resolved this issue

The Mossberg 590 fed them with no changes.

These days there are 3 or 4 companies making mini 12GA shells. You are not trying to take-down a deer with this little shotguns, you are protecting your homestead. The mini shells provide plenty of power without being magnums. You can also load more shells.

I would much rather use a smaller 12GA load than go to a 20GA gun.

The mini shot shells are available as slugs, buck shot and bird shot

A friend has a Mossberg Shockwave, a Remington Tac14 in wood, a Remington Tac14 mag fed and a Black Aces Pro Series S Semi auto.

$574 No NFA, No AOW Walnut Pro Series S Semi! | black-aces-tactical

I've shot all of them and like the Rem Tac14 in wood and the Black Aces over the other two. I found them well balanced and very controllable. T he Black Aces semi-auto is so fast that you can dump 5 rounds in under a second.

Hip shooting or point shooting is no problem with any of the 4 shorties.

I'm right handed and my buddy is left handed. He prefers the Mossberg Shockwave because he can activate the safety with his left hand. He's ordering a left handed safety from Black Aces soon.

"Uh, if you divide 20 feet by 3 you get 6+ yards." Dang math anyway! Obviously you are correct. My point (ill taken) was that the spread of the various shot sizes still left one hole basically. The Black Aces semi would be the way for me as my right arm is of the handicap style. Any pump is a bit difficult for me.

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Mike Maher #283

20ga. Plenty of good HD ammo choices.

I own the Mossberg 590 Shockwave 12 Gauge and it honestly isn't as punishing nor difficult to shoot as folks assume it is. The Raptor grip really does tame the recoil substantially by redirecting it away from the shooter's palm/wrist, leaving you with a painless yet impressive little jolt backwards when fired.

It's all in the technique, as illustrated perfectly in the following video...


I've shot my Shockwave using a similar method to the first one demonstrated in the video with 2¾" Olin Military Grade 00 Buckshot Shells and it was very controllable.



That being said, I have no doubt that a Shockwave chambered in 20 Gauge or even .410 Bore would make for a capable Home Defense firearm for those who simply cannot handle the recoil or shoot a 12 Gauge with confidence. Regardless of whether it's 9 pellets or 5 pellets of 000 Buck coming out the muzzle, you can be sure that it will stop the threat so long as you do your part.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

The crimson trace side saddle makes the shock wave a better performer, quick Accurate hits. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

Can you use the vertical forearm on the BT12 and have it still remain a "firearm" ? Could you go with a folding brace and still maintain a non NFA status? Still trying to decide on the addition of using a box mag and shorter barrel. I guess I would prefer a Saiga 12, SBS, with a 30 rd drum. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

I am still waiting for Hurricane Butterfly to get back with what their lawyer tell them. The issue isn't the vertical forgrip. The issue is that if the brace doesn't count then it would need to be registered as an AOW.

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I do not understand the near universal affinity of the shotgun (even the compact ones being discussed here) for home defense. It still must be aimed, as there will be almost no shot dispersion at close range, and no, you do not want to be using slugs. Pump shotguns can easily be short-stroked under extreme stress, they are very bulky, very slow to load and reload. These short barreled ones have a ridiculously small magazine capacity. Do you keep it loaded when you are not in direct control of the gun? That would probably be criminal negligence in the event of some accident.

No lever action rifles or single action revolvers either, for many of the same reasons.

My opinion is that a full sized pistol or double action revolver is the best choice. It should go without saying that of course you need to learn how to use it, but you also need to learn what the laws are in your area for using deadly force to defend yourself.

*sigh* Why is it that when certain folks are faced with a different opinion they immediately jump to the conclusion that the vast majority of the folks who hold said opinion are ignorant fools? Oh right, arrogance!

Honestly, nobody who likes firearms enough to post regularly on a webforum about them likely believes that a shotgun doesn't require aiming, yet folks who dislike shotguns always feel the need to insinuate that anybody who chooses a shotgun for Home Defense is such an ignorant individual.

Seriously, cool it with that nonsense, will you? You don't see any folks in this thread blatantly disrespecting folks who choose semiautomatic pistols/rifles/carbines by insinuating that they must be under the impression that unleashing a volley of bullets from those high capacity magazines is a proper substitute for aim, so why do you come here posting such nonsense unless you're deliberately trying to annoy other posters?

Personally, I like shotguns because they're extremely powerful, reliable, and generally less likely to penerate walls.

With buckshot they're just about the closest thing to the fabled "one-shot-stop" you can possibly get short of destructive devices and short stroking a slide is completely reliant upon operator error which is unlikely to occur among practiced shooters. Besides, even if short-stroking is a major concern, they make semiautomatic shotguns which eliminate the risk of short-stroking.

As for short-barrel shotguns, I personally like them because they're extremely easy to maneuver inside of my house, can be safely stored at my bedside, and having actually shot one, they're not difficult to control at all with proper technique.

Bottom Line: People come in all different shapes and sizes, ergo the mentality that there exists a perfect, one-size-fits-all firearm for self-defense is demonstrably false, as is the reasoning that just because YOU do better with a particular firearm means that EVERYONE ELSE will as well. So before you go making anymore ignorant comments in response to this post filled with more erroneous assertions please consider that.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Well, you know what they say about opinions (including mine)!

Just my son and I at my house. He keeps a long tube Mossy 590 riot gun with the mag loaded but not the barrel. I do the same with an Ithaca Mod. 37 riot gun with marine finish. The first thing an intruder will hear is one or two shotguns being jacked, depends on who is home. If he's (they) still stupid enough to keep coming after that he's going to be greeted with a volley of #4 buckshot. I don't anticipate needing a reload but if necessary there's a few high cap M&P's nearby. We actually practice for this using empty shotguns. I've got a short barrel 870 with the proper stamp but I don't shoot it as good so I won't use it for home defense. A couple of loaded AR mags are also nearby. We've had several victims attacked outside their house so I very seldom go out without something, even while operating my zero turn or tractor. Be aware of your surroundings.

Not much for shotguns ..... but


Mine's a Mossburg 510 youth model; easy reach forend,18" barrel. OAL of only 34.75 inches..... 3+1.... +5 more.

Oh that universal sound that every intruder around the world probably understands.

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Shield 45, SW40VE, 586, 1000

AND........That noise folks gives away your position and can get you shot.........That is an OLD OLD wives tale. If you are truly into it it. The only noise made should be sound of a safety button put being pushed off.

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S&W Accumulator

You know, while I don't subscribe to the belief that the sound of chambering a round will scare away any intruder and acknowledge the possibility that said sound may give away my position, I still don't store my Shotgun with a round in the chamber because it doesn't have a firing pin block, (most don't) ergo it isn't drop safe.
So yeah, I'll accept the risk of "giving away my position" in my home that the intruder most likely doesn't know the layout of over the risk of collateral damage in the event in which I may drop my Shotgun while groggy should I receive a rude awakening in the form of my door getting kicked open at 3:00am, and I'll take the fringe benefit of the possibly that the sound of chambering a round might unnerve an invader, even if I'm not counting on it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, folks sure do love splitting hairs in regards to how an attacker is stopped. As for me, I really don't care how I may manage to fend off an attacker so long as I'm successful in doing so, and if the Armchair Commandos who never grew out of playing solider want to accuse me of being foolish for making use of any potential advantage in a fight, then whatever, their total disregard for the inherent value of psychological tactics just shows how little they actually know about warfare.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

BLACKHAWK! KNOXX BreachersGrip is my choice for Pistol Grip on a shotgun.

I does REDUCE FELT Recoil - Same amount of energy, but over a longer time period for the hand.

Bekeart

I've got grandchildren in and out so I ain't gonna leave one in the chamber. If I'm lucky the perp ain't gonna know exactly where I am. In almost 44 years as a LEO and lots of training I think I know how to do it. But, you never know until it happens.

"The bad guy will know exactly where you are at, and kill you" is just as bad a wives tale as them being scared off.

No matter what you shoot/defend yourself with it still stupid to have to load it before you can defend yourself...........Wait a minute mr bad guy....I've got to load my gun........

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S&W Accumulator