Quick background, owned a 1976 High Standard Citation, bull barrel 5.5 and an amazing target adjustable trigger, target sights and factory target grip.........been missing it!

Looked at new MK IV Ruger in Target bull barrel 5.5 and the Hunter. Trigger will need work, sights are so so, grip has some issues as does the grip angle for me.

Picked up the new Browning Medallion slab side and it was very comfortable, trigger seemed better than the Ruger, not sure how well these shoot, lower price would let me do some mods as needed.

Or, do I just go back and find a nice old High Standard that already has amazing sights grips and trigger but certainly doesn't come cheap but then again by the time I mod up the Ruger or Browning the price equals or may exceed.

Anyone got anything to share on the new Ruger MK IV or the Browning Buckmark series that makes it a great target shooter? I just basically shoot indoors to 50 ft but I do like refined triggers and sights etc

Karl

I’m a big fan of the Mark IV. I have the target model and it’s been very reliable. Since you say they grip angle doesn’t feel comfortable to you they mfg one with the 1911-style grip frame.

__________________
Some Might Say.

Don't play around. If you want accuracy, go for a Model 41.

Though I must say that my Browning Medalist (not Medallion) is a very accurate pistol, too.

__________________
I've still got it made.

Yes I handled that one but only available in plastic frame or aluminum though I liked the feel. Wanting the weight of the steel frame. Thanks, appreciate it.
Karl

Honestly the High Standard would be the choice over the S&W, I wouldn't pay the extra money for the S&W as I think the High Standard is as accurate in the older models. I did look at a new S&W 41 today but if I were to do that I would most likely go to the older one, thanks for the info. I will look up the Medalist Browning
Karl

Find the High standard.....Simple.
If not you already know you are headed for disappointment.

__________________
Paul
S&WCA #2726

All this talk and no pictures..

I vote for a Colt Woodsman Match Target.. was my dads new in '51. I've had it for 30 years myself, and have had many 22lr semi autos(still do), none have been as accurate as this.



Or an earlier Mark II

Attached Images

	20181213_152806.jpg (184.8 KB, 689 views)
	006 (2).jpg (142.3 KB, 681 views)

Have my grandfather's old High Standard from what I think is the late 50's. I don't sell guns anyways, but I would not trade it for any other 22 target pistol on the market today. Feel sorry for anyone who sold one.

Volquartsen trigger kits are a big improvement in the Rugers.

Then go High Standard.

My Medalist.

.

Attached Images

Medalist compressed.jpg (212.9 KB, 101 views)

__________________
I've still got it made.

The old Colts, Brownings and Hi-STDs were hard to beat. Really not a lot of difference in similar models. I tended to like Hi-Std myself. I bought a Browning Medalist new and it was a tack driver and had the best trigger.
The new Brownings and Rugers both need tuned before you start.

Do what I did. Get the target model ruger mark iv, put in a volquartsen trigger, get a good set of target grips. You'll be set. about $700 total.

Get what you know will work - get the High Standard. Otherwise, you’ll never have anything but a patched up Ruger or Browning. Good guns but they’re not what you know you really want.

__________________
Everybody could shoot

If want the best in a .22, follow the pros.
Get a Feinwerkbau AW93, Hämmerli 208, of better yet, a Pardini.

I’ve a Ruger’s Mk IV Standard and it is an absolute dream:



Absolute tack driver, even with the fixed sights the internet seems to think are worthless for target shooting (hint: they’re not). Flawlessly reliable, and still has classic refined good looks. All for well under $400 out the door. Can’t be beat, get a Mk IV. You won’t be sorry.

Of the 3, I'd get an older High Standard. I have a lesser model (Sport King) from the 50's, it's temperamental with magazines. The one that came with it is flawless, the ones I found to supplement are prone to feeding issues (they have to be tuned, I hear) and are pricey. And the guns tend to want Standard Velocity only, no HV.
But as far as accuracy, it beats out a Ruger Mk II I have, and that's no slouch.

The Ruger is more friendly to adding mags that work, and seems to not have an issue with the HV stuff. And it's still plenty accurate.

Heck, if you're ok with a kinda ugly gun, go find a used S&W 22A. Got mine for about $150, you can easily find them under $200. And it's got plenty good accuracy, and has a rail for optics already in place if that's your thing (I don't use one, but I've thought about a red dot).

Have had several High Standards (Victors, HD Military's & Sharpshooters), Colt's (Match Targets), S&W 41's, various Ruger's, Walther (OSP & GSP) and Brownings. Have sold all except a Walther OSP and a Browning Medalist. Will be keeping the Medalist until I take a dirt nap and then pass it on to my Grandson........

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Sounds to me you have answered your own question with the first sentence of your original post. My guess is too that nothing else will satisfy you, and it sounds like getting any other to perform as well as the one you used to have in the long run will cost as much money...

__________________
Randy

I own a MK I 678 Target and a Mk II 512 Target (along with a Model 17-4 and a K-22 Outdoorsman).



I also own a pair of High Standard Victors - a 1971 5.5" catalog number 9217) and a 1975 (catalog number 1911) 5.5".






I added Volquartzen hammers and sears to the Rugers to improve the trigger pulls, and they are nice pistols that will get you into bullseye/NRA precision pistol shooting.

But my scores are about 10 points better on any given day when I shoot a Victor rather than a Ruger.

Price wise I recently paid $575 for the Victor with the scope mount) and $750 for the other Victor, both were local gun shop guns, both are early Hamden marked models and the latter is in near mint condition.

The Victors that have actually sold on GB since June 11, 2019 were as follows:

A 9217 Hamden marked = $695
A 9217 E Hartford marked= $590
A 9216 Hamden marked = $542
A 9217 E Hartford marked = $478
A 9217 E Hartford marked = $879
A 9216 E Hartford marked = $1135
A 9216 Hamden Marked = $706
A 9217 E Hartford marked = $504 (in good rather than excellent condition)
A 9216 Hamden marked = $716
A 9217 Houston marked = $549
A 9217 Hamden Marked = $750
A 9217 E Hartford marked = $625
A 9217 Hamden marked = $599
A 9217 Hamden marked = $555
A 9217 Houston Marked (good condition) = $332
A 9217 Hamden marked (freckling one one side) = $404

In other words, if you shop around a bit, you can find an E Hartford marked, (or if you are lucky a Hamden marked) Victor in excellent condition for about $500-$550.

A new Ruger Mk IV Target will cost you $400-$450. And you'll still need to put a Volquartzen trigger and sear in the Ruger, which will add about $100 to the cost - about the same money in total that you'd pay for a Victor. The Victor will hold its value better and shoot rings around the Ruger.

The only advantage of the Ruger is that it'll handle a regular diet of the high velocity ammo, where you should stick with standard velocity ammo with the Victor. That makes the Ruger a better field pistol if you are into hunting small game with it.

If you are going to go the Ruger route save a bit of money and look for an older Mk I Target or MK II Target. You'll find them for $300-$350 in excellent condition. If you find one with the Volquartzen trigger and sear it won't cost you anything more.

New Rugers, Brownings and S&Ws are not the same kind of guns as the milled steel of yesterday. It's apples and oranges. I can't think of one 22 pistol today that is as good as the older models. Yea you can buy X and then order up a bunch of aftermarket parts to make it shoot decent. Far as I'm concerned they should just sell them it kit form. You can still find 41s in nice shape for $1k, keep it in good shape and still have a $1K gun.

Last summer I had an itch that needed scratching. I have a High Standard Tournament and it shoots way better than I do. I wanted to do a comparison of an array of the more common vintage target 22 pistols. I got a variety pistols like: the Browning Medalist and Challenger, S&W Model 41's, Colt Match Target and Woodman and various levels of High Standard. All shot better than I do, but the High Standard Tournament is the one I usually take to shoot. But that's just me. Thanks! Mick

He has a point. Also the kit guns will never have the feel or the inherent accuracy of the guns that cost $1K and above.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Have a Buckmark for about 25 years. Excellent and reliable. Easy to mount a scope. Didn’t break one part until about 24 years. Added a Volquartsen hammer made trigger better(stock was better than a equivalent Ruger). I know a Smith 41 is a bit more expensive but worth it. Way better trigger and more accurate. I hit clay pigeons at 50yds with mine rested. Tried a new Ruger with the fluted 7” barrel couple years ago. Trigger stunk

I won a couple drawers full of Bulls-eye trophies back years ago with a High Standard like this one ( file photo). Being more traditional, my advice would be to search for an old High Standard, Colt, or Mod.41 in that order.

__________________
John

HS are wonderfully accurate pistols. The issues are basically standard velocity ammo which is minor and finding good magazines which is more of a problem. The big advantage of the Ruger MK series is you don't have to deal with either issue.

For me, particularly since a balance issue due to a brain tumor means I'm never going to be worth a flip as a bullseye shooter, means my old HS went away and I bought a Ruger. The Ruger is considerably more accurate than I'm capable of. Also I don't feel badly about carrying the Ruger around for use as a field gun.

If you have the ability to really shoot well, get a HS or a S&W41. A 41 will cost more but magazines are easier to deal with. Personally I think a good HS is slightly more accurate than the 41 and the HS always felt better in my hands which is highly subjective.

As for the Buckmark, I think they are in the same class as the Ruger. That makes them pretty good pistols for the price. Again highly subjective but the Ruger feels better in my hands.

So if you're really serious about accuracy go w the HS or the 41. Pick whichever feels better to you. If you just want a pretty good 22 semi to have fun with, either the Ruger or the Buckmark will serve you well. Finally for what it's worth, I actually shoot my 6" M617 better than my Ruger. The Ruger is just more convenient for plinking being magazine fed.

It is really tough to beat any of the High Standards. I see the the sport king as an equivalent to the Ruger Mark series. The Victor is an incredibly accurate target gun and a step up from the sport king or Rugers Mark series guns. The Medalist I am sure is on par with the Victors but have never had or shot one myself. I have a Ruger mark II and 4 different High Standards and I am happy and will never need more.

Attached Images

	20181024_213614.jpg (212.3 KB, 39 views)
	20190320_154505.jpg (123.3 KB, 31 views)
	20181024_213721.jpg (213.4 KB, 32 views)
	20190320_154422.jpg (131.1 KB, 28 views)

Just a little anecdote about the Ruger Mark series 1, II, & III.

I was instructing the Personal Protection classes for the Enhanced
Concealed Weapons License for a few years before I retired. Probably
had a few hundred students in that time.

One of the class requirements was for each student to fire 100 rounds
on the range. Paper plates were used for targets, shooting from various
distances. They would record the number of holes in their plate as part
of their class grade.

During that time I only had two students with perfect scores of 100.
The were both using Ruger Marks I, II, or III.

__________________
In Omnia Paratus

Slightly off topic, I apologize, but have you looked at the Smith & Wesson Model 22A or 22S? They are available used. Fun, inexpensive pistols that took almost any ammo right out of the box. Maybe not serious competition pistols for some, but great plinkers for all.

Attached Images

22LR SW 22S.jpg (112.4 KB, 15 views)

Karl,
You had one
You liked it
Why would you try something that is foreign to you that you might have to learn to like?

Get another High Standard

Everybody has or should have one. Mine is a Browning Challenger II, which I really like. Hard to go wrong with any of them we’re talking about, so pick one or two and enjoy . . .

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Accuracy wise the Rugers will still shoot better than anyone other than a truly distinguished shooter. However, even as an average shooter, I still score about 10 more points per match with a High Standard Victor than I do with my Ruger Mk I 678 Target (and I shoot it better than my Mk II 512 Target).

As for the accuracy of the High Standard Victor, these are five shot groups of CCI standard velocity fired at 50' shot with a Victor and a 2x scope with my hand resting on a bag for zeroing purposes. I'm still the limiting factor:




Offhand, single hand I shoot like this:



So while I do a bit better with the better trigger on the Victor, any of the pistols in this thread are probably more accurate than any of the shooters in this thread when it comes to single hand offhand bullseye shooting.

-----

Magazines for the High Standard are harder to find and they'll cost you about $55 when you find them. Inerarmstx.com is your best source. They make quality magazines that fit both the newer and older Victors very well.

I do however recommend you also spend $45 or so on a magazine adjustment tool. Half the old High Standard and newer Interarmstx magazines I have purchased have needed some minor feed lip adjustment to function reliably in both my Hamden marked Victors. The original HS magazines feed a bit smoother but the Interarmstx magazines are well made, reliable and have lips that are thick enough and hard enough to stay in tune over time, as long as you don't drop them on the feed lips.

The feed lip adjustment is critical as the High Standard pistols do not have a feed ramp, so the bullet has to feed from the magazine at the right angle to have the bullet enter the chamber. If the bullet sits to high in the magazine, it'll impact the barrel above the chamber. Too low and it'll either impact the barrel below the feed ramp, or in a less severe too low condition, shave some lead off the bullet on the way in the chamber. I've noted the bullet needs to sit slightly higher in the magazinze with the Interarmstx magazines than in the original HS magazines to feed reliably.

-----

Ruger magazines are about half as expensive and the factory Ruger magazines hold up well. But I've also had older magazines come out of tune as well.

----

FWIW, the Kimber 1911 .22 LR and CZ Kadet magazines are the best .22 LR magazines I have found. They are durable and relentlessly reliable.

With respect to the Ruger MKIV.... does anyone do a trigger job or just drop in a replacement?
Thx

***I really want to thank everyone for their input***

There are many good points made here. I took the liberty yesterday to put several models of the Ruger in my hands, they just aren't a natural for me. More thought was given to the investment into the gun to make it what I know I want and all of this has guided me back to looking for just the right High Standard
I also handled a few of the Browning Buckmarks, they had a more natural fit to me than the Rugers. I appreciate the reinforcements given, I need to pursue another High Standard to make me happy...........So the search begins
It is a little hard for me to buy the older guns off Gunbroker not really knowing the real story and function of them. My local gun shows rarely have something like this show up, I will keep and eye on my local Armslist so that I can handle it before I buy it, so I guess Citation or Victor is on my radar............Many thanks to everyone!
Karl

Enjoy the pursuit!

__________________
I've still got it made.

^^^THAT^^^

Wet

I don´t have a Browning or a Ruger, never even held any of them. Imported firearms are somewhat hard to come by down here. You get what you can and better be happy with what you have, but I think I´m fortunate enough to own a 1956 3rd gen Colt Mt, a mint 1947 Hi-Standard HD Military and a pristine S&W model 17 no dash.
They suffice and I´m both happy and proud to be their caretaker for the time being. They are also a good reminders of a time that won´t come back.

Regards, Ray

I'm with you Karl. I bought both of mine from "local" gun shops (one was a state away but I dropped in while visiting family and had it shipped home).

With the High Standard pistols if they've been shot a LOT with high velocity ammo they can develop a crack in the frame on the right side where the frame is thinner to accommodate the slide release. I always like to inspect them in person before buying.

the cost of a trigger job is about what the Volquartsen kit is. Lower 2 pound range is very common for the VQ kit.

Sarona Gun Works should be able to do a trigger job. The bonus is that the upper is the registered part. You could just mail the lower in a Priority Mail box.

Dennis does rework factory triggers, hammers and sears for Ruger Mark/22-45 pistols.

You people are horrible enablers!

I once owned a High Standard Supermatic Citation Model 104, but I let it go back in 1995. Now this thread has me wishing to replace it.

I think if I should get another HS I will try the Military model for the 1911 grip. Any advice?

Curl

__________________
Curly
SWCA #2599; SWHF #626

I've owned several S&W 41's over the years. They're great guns with fantastic triggers, but the Rugers with a little trigger work seem to shoot just about as well for me. They also won't get beat up with high velocity ammo the way a 41 can. The 41 is great, but I've never been impressed with the cheaper S&W 22's.

I've owned a couple High Standards over the years and they were o.k, but for some reason they just weren't for mel. I still have an original Browning Challenger that has a great trigger and is super accurate. But if buying a gun for anything short of serious competition, it would be a Ruger Mk IV. My current Mk IV with a Volquartsen trigger is great.

I second this and sugest the HD Military. The rear sight isn´t great but the gun fits my hand like a glove and it´s very accurate.
Regards, Ray

I've shot in a lot of local sportsman club matches in the past. I won a lot because I was shooting full blown match pistols against guys shooting mostly guns like Rugers and lesser stuff like H&Rs. They were more social events than matches. The 1st big time NRA match I was in was not planned. Was going to a range with my boss on a Sunday morning just to plink some targets. Match was going on and the only pistol I had with me was HI-Std HD Military 4". Much to my surprise I won the 22 events against the guys with 41s and other match guns. Had no CF to finish match and a State Trooper lent me a Python / Wadcutters so I could finish.
I didn't get any firsts with Python but place high enough I won the match on the aggrate score. I've owned a bunch of HI-STDs and we're all excellent shooters but no pistol I have ever owned has a trigger like that HD. It's been shot thousands of rounds and I've owned it for over 50yrs.
Other than replacing springs it is still original.

First thing you need to understand is that High Standards are in a class all their own. You just can't compare them to anything else. Sounds like you should be looking for another one.
If you're looking for a formal target gun. Try an older S&W Model 41.
For informal target shooting and general plinking, my choice is the Browning Buckmark. I have two. Excellent shooters as is. No need for aftermarket add ons unless you just want to.

The first thing is your statement is debatable. You pick up a High Standard, but a Browning Medalist you put on like a glove. Or at least that is the way it feels. The grips are like nothing else I have ever shot. The pistol is pure elegance and its accuracy is second to none. A Browning Medalist is truly in a class of it's own. A Medalist in excellent condition usually runs twice what a High Standard does in the same condition. Have had 7-10 High Standards and they are all gone, still have my Medalist.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Has anybody tried the Triple-K magazines for High Standard?

Curl

__________________
Curly
SWCA #2599; SWHF #626

The work, some better than others. Have had to adjust/tweak the lips of the mags sometimes to get them to work properly. But have had to do the same to original mags too.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Well, I've experimented with most of them over the years. I have:

Ruger Mark I 6 7/8"
Ruger Mark I 5.5" Bull Barrel
Ruger Mark II Target 5.5" Bull Barrel
Ruger Mark II Gov't Model 6 7/8" Bull Barrel
Ruger Mark III Target 5.5" Bull Barrel
Ruger Mark IV Target 5.5" Bull Barrel
Colt Match Target Woodsman, (second series - 1953) 6"
S&W Model 41 7 3/8" with compensator
High Standard Supermatic Citation 8" with compensator
High Standard Supermatic Citation 6 7/8" with compensator

From a rest, the Ruger Mark II Government Model prints the tightest groups. It's unfailingly reliable with any ammo.

However, the H-S 6 7/8" is right on its heels with tight groups and reliability. It's my choice overall not only for its accuracy, but for its feel, ease of adjustment, great trigger and sight picture. The compensator makes for very rapid recovery in timed and rapid fire. The barrel weight can be adjusted to preference with optional add-on weights. The 6 7/8" barreled gun actually has a longer sight radius than my 8", and although the rear sight is mounted on the slide, there is absolutely no slop in that arrangement. In fact, it was the choice of many really good bullseye target shooters back in its day. I prefer the slant-grip "space guns," as they point more naturally for me.

And so, for me, the winner is:



John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Well, you enablers did it again. Here's the Supermatic Citation I took possession of just yesterday.







I carefully inspected and cleaned it. At the range it performed flawlessly. Happy camper!

Curl

__________________
Curly
SWCA #2599; SWHF #626

And you will thank us all after you shoot it and fall in love! That looks pristine, remember standard velocity ammo on this one not high velocity. Gosh I'm drooling that is a beauty, my congrats
Karl

I’m a huge fan of the Ruger Mk Series and have/had several fully built pistols. The simple method is just order the VQ Accurazing kit.



This was before the MkIV at the top got the kit and trigger, but otherwise all of mine run the kit. The MKIV has it installed now. All of them have a trigger pull between 1.5-1.75 pounds when using the Accurazing kit and the TandemKross flat trigger.