Back in the day, before SWAT teams, Law Enforcement used the Remington Model 81 and Winchester 1907 self-loading rifles for "high risk" arrests. These semi auto rifles were beautifully made and finished and chambered in .25, .30, .32, and .35 Remington and .300 Savage.

Here's my Model 81, in .30 Remington...

In the past I had a Remington Model 81 in 35 Remington caliber. Using factory ammo from a rest it would give 1 1/4" groups at 100 yards.

Wow! Gorgeous! What build year is it?

Sure were solid built. Never got to shoot one though. How is the recoil on em? The model 8 and 81 sure must have made a stir when they came out.

Mine shoots about the same. It has a Redfield peep sight which helps out in that department

Thanks. Built in 1950, the last year they were made. One of the last 1000 made, IIRC

Recoil is stout, although I shoot a lot of surplus rifles so I'm kinda used to it.

Boy does that look good! Doesn't look like it was used much.

My 1st deer rifle was a 8 in 35. I have had several 8 & 81s over the years and all were good shooters and most were 35s. I now have a 81 in 300sav
Krieger conversion with detachable mag. & Redfield reciever sight. It will average 1" at 60yds with factory ammo. Have shot it much yet to work up a load.

I have long admired the Remington Model 8 and Model 81, but never have I owned one.

A friend has a collection of Model 8 rifles. I've shot his in .25, .32, and .35. They are accurate, but recoil is way out of proportion to the rounds they fire. All that moving hardware - the barrel and locking receiver parts, comes rushing back to slam into the rear of the frame. The effect is like a jackhammer.

Every now and then I get the urge to own one. My choice would be a .35 or a .300 Savage.

Great guns!

Curl

I believe you are right about not being used much. It really is in great shape.

Would love to see a Kreiger modified M81. That conversion was supposed to be the best.

Years ago I was visiting Peterson's Guns in Albuquerque and saw a Peace Officer Equipment conversion to 15 round magazine Model 81. It was very well done and in great condition. They wanted 2G's for it, which was about 4 times what a standard configuration Model 81 went for. I should have gone for it...those POE 15 round Model 81's go for about 6G's now.

Wow accuracy sounds outstanding for a rifle of that vintage plus being a semi-auto. I have a Remington Model Four in .270 win. which does not group as good as that at 100 yards with factory loads anyway

Beautiful rifle!

I love the idea of owning and using one.

Would love to have one like it as a companion to the Winchester Model 1907 .351 here.

That is a fine looking 1907

Calfed, that's a good looking rifle. I have been hunting one in .35 Rem, but the ones I come across are pretty salty. Love the condition on yours!

I bought the 81 Kreiger conversion thinking I could find a hi cap mag for it. I didn't know what I was doing and didn't know they made no hi cap mags. They used the box mag from the rifle for the conversion. I only wanted hi cap mag to show the AR crowd what a old rifle will do. If a 8 or 81 is kicking badly there is more than likely due for new springs. Some shooters aren't use to the double shuffle of Browning system.IMG_2984.jpgIMG_3013.jpgIMG_3015.jpg


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Can’t find a pic of my 81 in 300 Savage
Here is my Rem Model 8

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I have two M8s (both .30 Rem) and two M81s, a .30 Rem and a .300 Savage. The recoil of the full power .300 Savage is pretty stout, so for the most part I use only 168 grain lead bullets loaded to a MV of about 2000 ft/sec (24 grains of IMR 4227). It functions fine. I have made up several hundred .300 Savage cases from .308 brass, very simple to do, just run a .308 (or 7.62 NATO) case through a .300 Savage full length die and cut back the neck length. There is no significant difference between the .308 and the .300 Savage cases other than the neck length and a slight difference in the shoulder angle.

During and after WWII, the FBI used a special version of the M81, using a more lightly loaded .30 Rem round. Extremely rare and valuable and virtually never seen.

How does the magazine release work on your Remington?

I recently finished an article on the models 8 and 81. An advance look at it can be found here:

John

The Remington Models 8 & 81 semiauto rifles...

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Here is my brother’s 1946 81 Remington in .300 Savage.

The paper plate was shot at 100 yards, the orange dot on the cardboard was shot at 50. This was Hornady ammo.

The second orange dot was shot at 50 yards with reloads, the cases made from .308 brass.

I think the rifle is capable of better accuracy, but my brother’s eyes are not.

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The magazine release is machined into front of trigger guard. It is very hi quality work. You would swear it's factory. I made the mistake of researching after I got it. Seems like the Kreiger is the best of the conversions. Thing is what is the benifit of the detach mag when capacity is same as factory box? I have hunted deer for years and only remember firing more than two shots once. I have a habit of loading 3 rds in hunting rifles. If you haven't hit your deer he is gone by the time you need 4th shot. If you have hit him you got time to load. In Ohio they have 3rd law anyway.

Interesting information about reloading for the .300 Savage. I've heard that the .300 Savage was somewhat of a model for the 7.62 Nato round. Personally, I think they could have necked down the 7.65 Argentine round to .308 and gone on.

I've been in the hunt for an FBI model Remington model 81 and you are right...they are rare and expensive. I've only seen two in my search and both went for big bucks.

Here are pictures of one that sold at auction a few years ago for about $2700...





and then this one, that went a few years ago for $3600...

Remington Model 81 F.B.I. Semi... Auctions Online | Proxibid

I believe the safety lever on AK-47’s were inspired by those of the Remington 8 & 81 models.

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Here is a picture of the FBI gun vault in the 40's...you can see plenty of Remington model 81's and Thompsons

I've been using commercial PCI ammunition in my Model 81. It is fairly accurate. I also have a 100 piece bag of .30 Remington brass that I bought years ago, along with a set of Redding dies, but haven't loaded for the rifle yet.

Got two, great rifles...The .35 Rem in my favorite
.35 Remington

300 Savage

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OGCA Member.

I had my trigger finger pulled out of joint and Doc put a protector over finger and taped it. That night was trying out a #8 with my trigger finger on side of action and using next finger to shoot. One shot, the bolt handle came back and hit the end of the protector and I saw stars. I know the finger was back in joint and seated properly after that.

Sort of like an A-5 with rifling.

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Mine dates from 1936 in .35 Rem. Best of all it was free, a gift from a neighbor! No one in her family was interested in it! It was her father's hunting gun kept in a family cabin in Northern Michigan.

As earlier mentioned, the .300 Savage was indeed the starting point for the .308/7.62 NATO. The U. S. Army thought the .300 Savage was an ideal chambering candidate for post-WWII rifles and MGs then under development, but felt that the ultra-short neck of the .300 case would not adequately hold and support the bullet in full automatic fire. So they just lengthened the .300's case neck a bit.
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I've been using commercial PCI ammunition (.30 Rem) in my Model 81. It is fairly accurate. I also have a 100 piece bag of .30 Remington brass that I bought years ago, along with a set of Redding dies, but haven't loaded for the rifle yet.

Regarding the .30 Remington cartridge, it is essentially just a rimless version of the .30-30 cartridge. It is not difficult to make .30 Rem cases from .30-30 brass if you have access to a lathe (which I do). All it involves is trimming off the rim and cutting a new extractor groove. And the .30 Rem can be loaded using .30-30 dies. I have made and loaded hundreds of .30 Rem cases that way.

One thing I can say about the M8/81 is that it is reliable. Very, very seldom have I experienced a feeding or extraction/ejection malfunction in any of mine.

Do the recoil springs need to be changed routinely?

I really can't say because I was to late in the game to buy a new one. The period these guns came from the average Hunter didn't shoot CF rifles for recreation. Several of the #8s I've owned were ex law enforcement or prison system guns. My 1st 8 a 35 was marked from Indiana prison. I had a couple that the springs were so weak you could almost cock the gun with your finger. One I bought off a old deputies widow that was so full of some kind of grease it turned to leather. You let go of bolt and it creeped shut.
I don't know if springs are affected by age if they aren't under compression. It may just be the nature of the individual spring.
I have one new set of springs for a #8 and I would bet they ate prewar manufacture. No, I don't want to sell them. I replaced all the springs in 2 number 8s. Have never done a 81.

The recoil springs don't generally need to be replaced unless they've been damaged or shortened.
Cutting them shorter was common in attempts to solve functioning problems. But it was the wrong thing to go after.

The springs are caliber specific in the 8 and 81.
There's actually 2 in the that tube surrounding the bbl.
A recoil spring and a buffer spring.

The buffer is the short one.
Different OAL's and diameters for the different calibers.
I think the 25 has it's own,,the 30 has it's own and the 32, 35 and 300 share the same one.

The recoil spring is the long one and one that usually gets clipped in attempts to solve functioning problems.

IIRC the 25 has it's own
The 30 and 32 share the same recoil spring
The 35 and 300 share the same spring.

Just going by depleted memory, so I may be all wrong and a late nite drink helps me along.

Disassembly of the bbl shroud can be tricky. The had a special tool to unscrew the cap and not bugger up the nut on the end. But you can do it w/o it if you are careful. No need for a pliers.

That small hole on the underside of the bbl shroud forward of the forend is NOT an oil hole.
The spring assemblys inside do not need extra lubrication after proper assembly.
That hole is for installation of the factory available front sling swivel. It simply screws into that hole. There is a small plate brazed to the shroud on the inside that is threaded to accept the swivel so it's not just threaded into the sheet metal shroud.
People are forever pumping all sorts of oil and grease into that hole. It just gums up and slows down the recoiling function of the rifle.

Nice rifles. I have a 25, 30 32 & 35 Model 8,,the 25 is a C Grade (fancy wood and sights)
My only Model 81 is a 35.
Fun to shoot.
The 25cal Model 8 is a very gentle rifle to shoot.
I reload for all of them

The disassembly of the M8/M81 barrel assembly is not that difficult, and no special tools are necessary, contrary to some opinions. The bushing that screws onto the barrel can be removed with pliers, using a piece of leather around the bushing to avoid scratching. The bushing which threads inside the tube can be removed by using a thin piece of metal, much like you would use a screwdriver. Procedure is to remove the barrel and tube from the receiver, then pull the barrel rearward several inches under spring force. Use a small hose clamp around the barrel to hold it back. Then partially unscrew the larger bushing from the tube. Do not remove it yet. You will probably be able to find something to use as a bushing screwdriver hiding in your garage. I use a piece of some metal bracket of the right thickness, but for my very first experience I used an old license plate. It worked OK. You may have to use penetrating oil, etc. if the bushing is frozen in tight, but I have never needed to do that. Then ease the barrel forward and remove the bushing which screws onto the barrel using pliers and a leather pad if necessary. You may (or may not) be able to unscrew it with your fingers. Then pull out the barrel from the rear, leaving the springs in the tube. Carefully completely remove the larger bushing from the tube. The springs won't fly away, but be very careful anyway. Reverse the procedure for re-assembly. Disassembling the action for a thorough cleaning is not at all difficult and there are some YouTube videos showing how it is done, so I won't go into that procedure here.

Regarding recoil springs, while I cannot be sure, I believe that there were only two different strengths. One for the .25 and another for the other calibers. The FBI used the .25 spring and buffer in their .30 Rem M81 and a special lower-powered .30 Rem load. Just why that was needed I cannot say. Maybe FBI agents were recoil-shy. Perhaps they went to the full load later on, but I don't know.

Regarding installation of a sling swivel on the barrel tube, you need nothing special. About any forward sling swivel you have laying around will work. You just need a short machine screw with 10-32 threads instead of a wood screw. At least I think it is 10-32, check and see first. It is a standard everyday thread, not metric or some oddball size.

The M8 and M81 are for all intents mechanically identical differing only in woodwork and sights. The .300 Savage was available only in the M81, and if you are a hunter (or just a shooter), the M81 in .300 Savage is the one to have. It can be downloaded significantly by handloading to .30 Rem performance (or even less) and it still functions reliably. That is what I do as the full .300 load has too much recoil for me (I have shoulder problems). Plus, .300 Savage loaded ammo is much more available than the other calibers and reloadable cases can be readily made from .308 brass.

I made a bushing spanner fron a paddle type wood bit. Ground of leed and used dremil cut off wheels to remove center. Filed to fit bushing. Put in a old screwdriver handle. I've had a lot of them apart and have had to follow Bubba channel lock jobs, metal to metal. They really aren't that bad to take apart but not a good one for beginners to start on.