Here in the beautiful People's Republik of Illinois, virtually every other location has the 'no guns' sign. Here they do have force of law (misdemeanor),so I've taken to carrying a defensive knife.

Presently, it's a Benchmade Infidel automatic.

I'm contemplating adding a fixed blade, and due to the way I learned, I prefer a double edge. Came up with these candidates and want to know if anyone has any experience with them.

Mercworx Small Shiva:




Randall Combat Companion:



I'm leaning towards the Shiva as it's symmetric.

Blade length on both is about 5"

Thoughts?

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

I think any pig stuck with either of those stickers would stay stuck!

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No school like the old school.

If you are looking for a symmetrical blade shape, have you considered the Randall Model 2?

That was another one I was looking at.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

I am no knife fighter, but if I am going to carry one for primary self defense, I like the thought of a substantial hand guard like on the Randall #2. Its a messy business, and I could see your hand slipping onto the blade when slippery with blood.

Larry

Smatchet.
Cold Steel 14 Inch Smatchet - MacheteSpecialists.com

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Not in jail.

Watch episodes of, Forensic Files, etc., and you'll soon learn that many knife murderers do in fact cut themselves. The blood they leave takes detectives right to them, if not tainted with the victim's blood.

They do remarkable things with DNA these days.

I hope the OP has satisfied himself that his proposed knife will be legal in IL. I doubt that.

Concealed is concealed. . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

It is, surprisingly. A quirk in the way the law is written.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Way. Too. Big.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

That's a valid concern. A roughened handle helps as well. For example I'd never carry a Randall #2 with the handle shown above- too slippery.

Form Follows Function.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

"Tis better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6!"
If I have to defend my life (or someone I care about), I will gladly deal with a nuisance misdemeanor.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

You can lose your FOID privileges for that, so it's more than just a nuisance.

People's Republik, remember?

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

"I'm contemplating adding a fixed blade, and due to the way I learned, I prefer a double edge. Came up with these candidates and want to know if anyone has any experience with them."

When you speak about the way you learned, I am assuming then that you were trained in reverse edge technique?

I carry a knife routinely as a uniformed law enforcement officer as well as someone who has trained in edged weapons. Over the years, I have owned many custom and factory knives in all sorts of blade configurations, including the classic Randall #1 and #2. Ultimately, for a daily carry self-defense weapon, these are both not only much more than is needed in size, but are overly expensive should they be lost and there are many factory knives that are as good or better for everyday carry.

First off, are you 100% positive and without question that you can carry a double edged weapon in your municipality? I ask because double-edged knives are almost always considered to be weapons and nothing else, where conventional configured knives, meaning single edge, are acceptable and are not specifically noted in law. I am not an attorney, I am only familiar with the laws in my state, but I would strongly suggest that you make 100% positive sure about what is legal.

That said, if it is legal, then I would strongly suggest you shy away from the double edged dagger configuration and instead opt for something along the lines of a push dagger.

I have had several female friends who wanted to carry a unobtrusive knife with them and when I showed them the push dagger they instinctively saw how effective it can be.

Push daggers are employed primaly, meaning that most anyone can pick them up and instinctively use them to good effect by punching and slashing. Even though they are shorter blades, these knives are best used against hands and forearms and anything from the neck up. And most importantly, they are unlikely to be dropped and even more unlikely that someone will be able to take it from you.

Cold Steel has made many configurations of this over the years, I believe the current model is called the Safe Maker, but my preference is for one of the original Urban Skinner. Small, unobtrusive and quite effective. One of these small knives carried on the belt in the original sheath is mostly unobtrusive and will not get a second glance from most people who have no idea what it is.

When an individual is carrying a knife for self-defense, that means that under most circumstances they will use the blade during a lethal force encounter, striking quickly and then breaking away and leaving the area.

This means that it is not a duel: it is employing a tool in order to break contact.

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Benefactor Member, NRA

Push dagger handles aren't well adapted to forehand /backhand strokes. Your gripping options are limited. Daggers are legal here, in fact the automatic I'm carrying now would be considered a dagger. So, the legality issue is well in hand.

If I were looking for purely a push weapon there's a bunch of good push daggers out there as you mentioned. But that's not what I am really looking for.
Agreed, it's a tool for rendering ones assailant incapable of a follow-up and breaking contact

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Look at a Bob Dozier New York Special (I think that is the model name, has NY in name). Reasonable size. Great quality. Blade is D2 which is good even if it requires a bit of care not to rust. False upper edge that can be sharpened if you want a double edge.

I like the look and feel of the classic double edge boot knife BUT I've never seen one that was really sharp.

Randall makes a good knife but it isn't that much better today by comparison to other knifes as it was Viet Nam era when it was head and shoulders better than the competition. While it shouldn't be a consideration for your purpose there isn't a sexier looking knife than a Randall No 1. If you decide on that pattern though, Dozier also makes a pattern of it that I think is better quality than a current Randall made knife. Sit down though bc it's approximately $900. That is a handmade by Dozier himself, not one of his shop made knifes.

Cold Steel makes very good knifes for the price. While not a double edge their SRK model is a very good general purpose (including fighting) knife.

Buck still makes a good fixed blade.

Personally I don't like a tanto style knife because I use a knife for a lot of things not just defense. I will say though that for a pure fighter there is a lot to be said for a sharp pry bar pattern knife.

Finally you were asking about big fixed blades. I'd consider a smaller knife for personal defense carry. No a smaller knife won't stab as deeply and you don't have as much reach but carrying a knife is like carrying a gun. A 6 inch barreled 44 hits harder than a 38 Special J frame but which one are you more likely to carry concealed? With a smaller knife you can still stab and you can certainly slash. You can get any number of good quality small knifes that will work for defense which are easier to conceal and carry. If I knew I had to go to a fight w a blade, I'd choose bigger and walk in with it in my hand. That is different than a concealed carry defense situation though. Like with a personal defense handgun you need to choose with your brain and not your ego.

Thanks for your post. I'm looking at nothing over 5 inches. 4 being optimal for my purposes. The big pig stickers are courtesy of the other posters on this thread.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

I think I would carry the MW. Depending on cost. If You use one of these knives it will become evidence and I wouldn't like to loose a Randall.

I used to lust after a few Mercworx knives, but living in Texas at the time, double-edged blades were not legal to carry.

I have many single-edge fixed blades that will suffice.

Like quality handguns, custom knives can be addictive. I should probably consider thinning the herd of a few safe queens.

How do you plan to carry for self defense?

I picked up a knife made by Matt Logan last year, Home, and it is serving me well. First one pictured on his page.

This knife is made from 1/4" thick D2 tool steel. The overall length of the knife is around 8" and the cutting edge is approx 3 5/8". The handle scales are smooth red G10 and has a horizontal carry kydex sheath. Extremely stout knife.

Pricewise, they're similar.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

For one of these, sheath on belt, tucked in pocket
Hence the 4 to 5 inch limitation.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Right On !
Carry something you don't mind not getting back , no matter how righteous the use of self defense is the odds of getting your weapon back is 50-50 at best .

The evidence room "misplaced" my daughter's 44 special S&W revolver she had to use against an armed robber inside her place of business . Appeals drug on for years , civil law suits extended the case to decades... after all was over .... They couldn't find the realy nice model 1926 ...all we got was run the around.
My advice is carry something you can easily replace .
My carry knife is a Kershaw 1935 Fatback with assisted opening.
Cheap , easy to replace and a surprisingly good knife but I wouldn't sweat not getting back .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Interesting side note: California's knife laws originated in the 1840s. Mexicans tended to use and carry knives (couldn't afford guns), so knife laws reflected that. Carrying a concealed dagger was a felony but a concealed pistol could be a misdemeanor OR a felony.

Lol. Wound up getting this one. (Boker) 4.5"

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

I see you have the Boker version of the Applegate-Fairbairn.

Col. Applegate told me that after examining the killings that his OSS and British Commando forces managed, he felt that a six-inch blade was enough for battle conditions. He was, BTW, an excellent raconteur, amused when I told him that I'd initially learned the use of a combat knife when I was 12, reading my father's early edition of Applegate's, Kill or Get Killed. Rex laughed and said "Well, I was certainly thinner in the photos taken back then."

I tried the fixed blade version of his knife like yours, but by a different maker and with about a six-inch blade. It didn't fit my hand quite right and I wanted a more versatile knife in that role. But I have all three sizes of the Gerber rendering of his folder. I think it's an excellent design.

And I bet that Boker of yours will conceal well and prove its worth, if need be. I hope it's legal to carry where you live.

Aside from public lands and the usual prohibited areas like schools, courthouses and the like, it's fine.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Yes. For that reason, I put "rough" grip tape pieces on the handle of my Buck 119. About 8 small pieces, square or round, will do the job. The pieces are nickel-sized. No more slippery handles. Clean the handles with rubbing alcohol before applying grip tape, to ensure a good, lasting stick. They also make "smoother" grip tape as well (less rough).



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I special ordered it with a lugged hilt for a little more protection. And the stacked leather handle will not slip even when wet.

And for something a little easier to conceal, I always have my Randall, model 24 Guardian.

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I can say with certainty that I would rather be shot than carved on with any of the knives in this thread!

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No school like the old school.