ParadiseRoad
Member
...I think most pumps I've seen have tubular magazines...
...Anyone Recognize This Old Pump Gun?...
- Thread starter ParadiseRoad
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ParadiseRoad
Member
...I think it's probably a 22...
That are a Savage 22, I forget model, I had a parts gun and still have some of it left, including action. Bro has a Savage auto loader from same period that takes same magazine. Early 1900s vintage.
Rifle is a Savage 1903 hammerless repeater, take down. Would fire .22 short, long and long rifle from a clip type magazine. Standard model had a 24 inch octagon barrel. There were 4 fancy grades available also. Info is from the book The Rifle in America by Philip B. Shape, pg. 325. I did not see a Model 1906 listed.
There must be a small survival rate on this 03 model or they didn't sell
many in this area. I have not seen many and when I do they are beaters.
The Stevens Visable loader is more common but also scare in good condition. The later Savage, 29 I think is much more common.
many in this area. I have not seen many and when I do they are beaters.
The Stevens Visable loader is more common but also scare in good condition. The later Savage, 29 I think is much more common.
My mistake typo,
The other is not a Model '06
It's a Model '09
Same detachable box mag as the Model '03.
The Baker you can spot real fast as it has kind of a Browning A5 type hump to the back of the recv'r. I think they call that the Baker#2
There was an earlier one sometimes called a Baker#1, but it wasn't a Baker at all though it looks nearly the same as the #2.
Plus it was a semi auto. BUT, it had the pump handle out front which was used to chamber the first round,,then semi auto from there.
The maker was Freibeger (sp?) or something like that.??
(Maybe Baker made a copy for a short time as well, I don't know,
Savage did threaten to sue Baker over the #2 rifle and it's infringement on Savage patents.
I like the Savage pump 22's.
I recently picked up a Model 1914 in pretty nice shape along with a Model 29S marked 'Ranger'. (I think the Ranger(Sears Roebuck catalog) designation was a Model 30S)
(S) is Special for the factory Lyman tang sight and fold down rear bbl 2 leaf sight.
There's a Model 29,,29A,,and a 29B.
The 29 is a Model all in itself and quite different from the slightly later Model 29A and 29B which are much more common and the same rifle except for sights.
The 29A is a smooth top recv'r. no provision for a scope.
The 29B) was D&T for a Weaver N side mount and some later were grooved for the top mount., Other than that they are the same rifle.
Savage cataloged a 29G (Grooved) in place of the (B) when that feature came out but the rifles are still stamped Model 29B on the side.,,at least I've never seen or heard of one marked 29G.
The 29A/B are Hi/Vel ammo rated. The others are standard vel only though some of the later Model29 rifles were 'upgraded' with what Savage called a HighSpeed bolt. Those still get St/Vel ammo from me as the upgrade is only a slightly less deep cut into the bolt face for the carrier clearance.
Parts are slim to none when you go looking for any of these except the 29A & B.
Very accurate rifles.
DWalt
Member
There was another very similar and nearly identical .22 pump gun made by someone else. I have even seen several of them. I've tried but just can't remember its name, even though I came close. Does anyone know?
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It finally hit me. There were actually two. One was called the Batavia and the other was called the Febiger. Both were American made, but I don't remember any other details.
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It finally hit me. There were actually two. One was called the Batavia and the other was called the Febiger. Both were American made, but I don't remember any other details.
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Mossberg made one about the same time, that looks similar. Marlin had one too. The Rem 12 seems to have been most popular one at the time.
Tubbsy
Member
I've had the pleasure to shoot an early 1900s savage pump, i dont think that's a savage. Stock kind of reminds me of a browning....
Nope... . savage, seem to remember the magazine being different, but it's been years.
Nope... . savage, seem to remember the magazine being different, but it's been years.
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I put a few details on the two in post#10.
I couldn't remember the correct name of the Febiger. I think you got it.
The early Mossberg was the Model K. Also a Model M and a Mod S IIRC. Same rifles just different bbls and one a carbine I think.
That was a remake of the Meriden Model 15 which Mossberg bought the patent rights to after Meriden went under in 1918/19.
Mossberg came out with it right after they started in biz in about 1921/22.
The Meriden was designed by Arthur Savage's sons (John and ?/ can't remember the others name right now). At least that's who's names are on the paperwork.
Some believe Arthur was the actual designer along with Meriden's 1912 pump shotgun which also carries a 'Savage patent'.
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Here is some more info on the other brands. 2152hq, that was some helpful info on the 29.Thanks.
How can you find out who made a Batavia 22 automatic rifle and its value - Answers
The Savage 1906 repeating rifle and its .22 magazine with patent
How can you find out who made a Batavia 22 automatic rifle and its value - Answers
The Savage 1906 repeating rifle and its .22 magazine with patent
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DWalt
Member
There is not much information known about either Batavia or Febiger, other than the guns were both essentially identical in all respects to the Savage '09. Batavia guns were apparently made by The Batavia Gun and Forging Company in Batavia NY, while Febiger guns are stamped Febiger Arms Co, New Orleans. Maybe Febiger was a NOLA distributor or retailer who stamped his name on Batavia guns. Who knows? To make the situation even more mysterious, there is apparently one known Batavia semiautomatic pistol in .22 RF which may have been the very first .22 RF autopistol made. For sure, Batavia sold out to Folsom in 1919, and there was some kind of a relationship to Baker.
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I kicked a Savage reciever out of my parts pile. There is no markings on it , I remember all was on the barrel.
I wrote 1906 on it so I wouldn't forget what it was.Also butt plate is steel with Savage logo.
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I wrote 1906 on it so I wouldn't forget what it was.Also butt plate is steel with Savage logo.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
That's probably the Model 1903 Rec'v.
I think the later Model 1903 had a '1906' patent date on the bbl, I don't know what the particular pat was for in the mechanism.
The slight curve to the grip suggests a pistol grip stock which I think was the 1903 Model.
The 1909 was a straight grip.
But the early Savage 22's are confusing for sure and so many small changes and variations come up with these it's hard to pinpoint them sometimes. Even the early catalog info can be confusing.
Original magazines for the 1903 or 1909 are very expensive.. Don't kick those around!
Bakers are quite popular in NYS as Batavia is here in Western NY.
But it's their SxS shotguns and their Single BBl trap guns that grab most all the attention.
Emile Flues (of the 'Flues Model' Ithaca SxS) worked for them for a time. Rudolph Kornbrath did some of their high grade engraving.
Baker hired away workers from Savage and Ithaca at one time and had quite a thriving business.
The neat little .22's seem to be an after thought among collectors and shooters. Once in a while you used to see a table display of them and their near copys, but not much any more.
The Iroquois (NY) Gun Collectors Assn, still around, used to focus on Western NY gun mfg'rs and gunsmiths. Their members had all kinds of info and collector guns from Baker as well as Newton, Burgess, ect.
They all made some impressive stuff.
I think the later Model 1903 had a '1906' patent date on the bbl, I don't know what the particular pat was for in the mechanism.
The slight curve to the grip suggests a pistol grip stock which I think was the 1903 Model.
The 1909 was a straight grip.
But the early Savage 22's are confusing for sure and so many small changes and variations come up with these it's hard to pinpoint them sometimes. Even the early catalog info can be confusing.
Original magazines for the 1903 or 1909 are very expensive.. Don't kick those around!
Bakers are quite popular in NYS as Batavia is here in Western NY.
But it's their SxS shotguns and their Single BBl trap guns that grab most all the attention.
Emile Flues (of the 'Flues Model' Ithaca SxS) worked for them for a time. Rudolph Kornbrath did some of their high grade engraving.
Baker hired away workers from Savage and Ithaca at one time and had quite a thriving business.
The neat little .22's seem to be an after thought among collectors and shooters. Once in a while you used to see a table display of them and their near copys, but not much any more.
The Iroquois (NY) Gun Collectors Assn, still around, used to focus on Western NY gun mfg'rs and gunsmiths. Their members had all kinds of info and collector guns from Baker as well as Newton, Burgess, ect.
They all made some impressive stuff.
I have the butt stock for this rifle and it is a pistol grip. Bro has a Sav auto 22 of same era that takes same magazine and I think he found aftermarket magazines and think $40 but that's been a few years ago.
GypsmJim
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Funny thing about this thread is that I own a Savage 1903 and coincidentally I just had it out on the range a few weeks ago.
No question mine is a 1903 and it DOES have the 1906 patent date. Based on my SN research I'm guessing that mine was made in about 1920.
Not a real good pic, but the gun actually looks better in person. As far as I can tell, its all original. The bore is not rusted or pitted, but it is quite worn. Nervertheless, it shoots pretty well.
No question mine is a 1903 and it DOES have the 1906 patent date. Based on my SN research I'm guessing that mine was made in about 1920.
Not a real good pic, but the gun actually looks better in person. As far as I can tell, its all original. The bore is not rusted or pitted, but it is quite worn. Nervertheless, it shoots pretty well.
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