Apples and oranges, however...

I have only held a S9 in my hand once a few months back, and I remember thinking the trigger was pretty nice with a long smooth DA pull.

I had an epiphany earlier today that Ruger had essentially copied the P32/P3AT/PF9 with their LCP, and since the S9 and S9 Compact are basically upscaled LCPs, they are therefore basically scaled up Kel-tecs.

As someone who really likes the P32/P3AT/PF9 trigger, the idea of a full size double stack P32/P3AT/PF9 really appeals to me.

Thoughts? Anybody familiar with both?

I have 3 Kel-Tec PF9s and 2 Ruger LC9s. I would call the Rugers shameless copies that had a mag safety and manual safety added. The trigger pulls on all of mine are basically identical and not bad if you like that preloaded DAO.

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I'm with her

Not only did Ruger copy the P3AT, they got sued for it. The P11 was just discontinued, and I hope they come up with a replacement with a better trigger.

Got any info on that lawsuit?

I'd read that Ruger licensed the design so there wasn't actually any lawsuit, but of course you can read anything on the net

I've never owned an American, but did have a PF9 for awhile and it was reliable with the ammo I tried through it. I just got bored with it and traded it off.

My thoughts are that you are employing flawed logic. You're basically asserting something akin to "Chevy makes this car and Ford makes one similar in size but looks different so they must have copied Chevy."

Hold a Kel Tec and you'll be feeling garbage that looks like it was made in a dimly lit Chinese garage.
Hold a Ruger and you'll be feeling a decent gun.

Though the LCP is very similar to the P3AT, the LC9s is not at all like the PF9. I'm no engineer but even someone not mechanically inclined like me can see the obvious difference between the two.

I owned the original LC9 and sold it because I just wasn't carrying it.

I owned a PF9 and sold it because it was the most jammomatic piece of junk I've ever owned. I made the mistake of buying a Kel Tec once and will never make that mistake again. I will also take every opportunity to bash Kel Tec's low production standards every opportunity I get. They may have some interesting designs. But they are poorly executed and even just aesthetically it is obvious of their low quality.

I appreciate your comment, so let me explain my logic a bit more.

As to the Ford vs Chevy comment, I agree that Ruger's manufacturing standards are higher than Kel-tec's. That said, the internals on Ruger's internal hammer guns (LCP, LC380, LC9 (not LC9s which is certainly a different design), Security 9, and Security 9 Compact) are very closely based on the Kel-tec design. It's not Ford vs Chevy as much as Chevy vs GM.

This website, which shows how to detail strip a PF9, LCP, and LC9, shows that they are all essentially the same design.

RTK Triggers
RTK Triggers
RTK Triggers

Also, here's a pic of a design stripped S9:



As for Kel-tec's quality, I've owned 5 Kel-tecs, and I have to agree that they are cheaply made guns. There's no question about that.

My two older guns (P11 and P32) that were made in the early 2000s did have feeding issues and had to be "fluffed and buffed" as well as spring replacements to be reliable. I agree that it is not acceptible for new gun to be unreliable. However, I have also owned a NIB blue-label Glock 26 Gen 3 that was much less reliable than either of those Kel-tecs, so they are still nowhere close to the worst guns I have owned.

In the last year, I've been on a cheap gun kick and bought another P32, P11, and most recently a PF9. The P32 had a couple of FTF until it was broken in, but the PF9 and P11 have been flawless from the beginning no matter what I feed them. Additionally, I absolutlely love the PF9 trigger and would compare it favorably to any DA auto I have held.

Which leads us back to my original post - I love the Kel-tec PF9 trigger, and think a larger version (i.e. Ruger Security 9 or Security 9 Compact) might be a welcome addition to my collection. So I'm curious if anyone owns or is very familiar with both the Kel-tecs and new Rugers and can comment.

Attached Images

ruger s9 detail strip.jpg (131.4 KB, 135 views)

Comparing guns is highly subjective to the person using them. Especially when comparing plastic frame guns.

I have shot both the PF9 and Security 9. Like the Ruger better.

They are both price point guns. Ruger has the edge in fit and finish and out of the box reliability. So I would buy the Ruger.

People think that Glock is ugly. IMO, both Kel Tec and Ruger are uglier than hell. But again, it’s up to the buyer.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Always makes me smile and/or shake my head when someone bought and had bad luck with ONE item of a particular brand. Then EVERY item they make must be junk.

I've owned both. Both served me well. But now I try to lean towards higher quality and more expensive semi-auto's. Nothing wrong with the utilitarian lower end guns like these mentioned ...... I've just branched out some.

I had a Kel_Tec PF9 as my first carry gun. That was back in 2011. I didn't have any feed problems with it but with less than 300 rounds the trigger action completely failed. I sent it back to KT and the notes said they dang near replaced every part of the gun. It did shoot okay when I got it back but I sold it soon afterwards.
Back then the word was that the Ruger LC9 had a better trigger and had less felt recoil. Yes it was a look a like to the PF9 but the internals I believe were different which is why the trigger and recoil difference.
Around 2017 I stopped in an LGS just to check out the new store. They had the LC9s on sale for about $310 OTD so I bought one. It does feel and even looks like better quality than the old PF9 I had. The take down pin is a bit of a pita but I can deal with it.
I did start to have feed jams after I shot for an hour. People asked was I limp wristing it and I thought no. I sent it back to Ruger and they replaced the barrel and ejector. They said they test fired 50 rounds with two different makes of ammo and the gun functioned fine. I was checking it out and the 49th round I had a jam just like before. Before once it jammed it would continue to have jams which got me to thinking maybe I was limp wristing after a lot of shooting. So I made sure I had a death grip on the gun now and what I found out was the gun didn't have another jam. Subsequent shooting I make sure I have a strong hold and the gun has had no failures since. I have no qualms at all about carrying this gun for CC SD. I realized the FTF problem was my tired old hands going weak grip letting me know enough is enough.

I believe the American and the Security 9 are basically replacements for the discontinued Ruger P90 which was made for eons and was known for being a quality pistol. For carry purposes I would rather have the LC9s.

Relating to the above lower end guns I don't think Ruger makes a lower end quality gun. I am pretty much believing higher price doesn't always mean higher quality and quite often higher price is just paying for the name.
When any gun maker states their guns need a 500 round break in period to be dependable I consider that gun poorly engineered. if right out of the box it isn't dependable I am not wanting it. To each their own but I am not paying a premium for a high priced but equivalnet lower end quality production gun.
Kel-Tecs were considered a 50-50 shot and mine was the lower 50. Myself I would choose a Ruger over a Kel-Tec without a second guess. I believe shooting the two the Ruger raises the flag higher.
Any gun can have a problem child that gets out the door but a lot of problem childs calls for a change.

The Security 9 is a scaled up LCP2. The LCP2 has a significantly different trigger than the original LCP. The LCP2/Sercurity9 trigger is an internal hammer yes but it is very different from the PF9. It is a much shorter and lighter trigger pull. It's kind of hard to describe correctly. I often call it a staged double action, by that I mean that the hammer is almost pre cocked as the hammer doesn't come all the way forward when the slide returns to battery.

Very interesting - thanks!

My PF9 is a favorite carry gun...thin, light...goes bang every time.

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C & L

I remember reading a Gun Test magazine review that claimed that Ruger copied Kel Tec on one or more of their guns. They even put the Kel Tec slide on the Ruger and it performed flawlessly. I wish I could remember which models they were. Sorry to bust all you Ruger fan boys that think everything Ruger is all new design. It isn't. Probably just better paid lawyers.