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Old 11-23-2019, 11:49 AM
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Default The Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot rifle

This is a draft preview of a future article - as always, comments welcome!

John

The Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot rifle


An original 1885 low wall. (click for larger view)


An original 1885 high wall with the action open. (click for larger view)

Can you imagine a 23-year-old man, just a few years out of his teens, designing and patenting an epochal rifle and then selling it for manufacture to a major firearms company? And can you believe that over 130 years later, that rifle is still in demand and still being made? Sure, it’s hard to believe, but that man was incredibly exceptional. His name was John Moses Browning, and it was his very first design, the forerunner of many more to come. It was a single-shot falling block underlever rifle – strong, smooth-acting, quick to operate and versatile enough that was eventually chambered in over 91 calibers!

Browning designed the gun in 1878, and in the age of notable single shot rifles such as made by Remington, Sharps, Stevens, Maynard and others, it was a standout. In those days, competitive rifle target shooting was very popular, and some of Browning’s single shots, hand-made in his shop in Ogden, Utah, began to appear on the firing lines. They proved to be a hit with competitive shooters. The gun had some noteworthy features. The hammer retracted downwards so as to be out of the way as the action was opened, allowing quick and easy loading and unloading. The falling breech block was robust and locked up like a bank vault, enhancing accuracy and allowing heavily-loaded cartridges to be fired safely. The trigger was crisp. The receiver was made of premium steel, with two sizes of sidewalls available. The self-cocking hammer was of the traditional three-position type (down, half-cock, and full cock). Either open sights or tang-mounted vernier aperture types could be used.

The Browning shop, operated by John and his brothers, was hard-pressed to keep up with demand for this rifle, as they were only geared for laborious one-at-a-time manufacturing. Fortuitously, Thomas G. Bennett, then V.P. and general manager of Winchester Repeating Arms Company in New Haven, Connecticut, became aware of the Browning single shot. At that time, Winchester did not have a single shot rifle in its lineup, and needed one badly that could be more than viable for competition in that category. Accordingly, in 1883, Bennett traveled to Utah to meet with John Browning. While there, he negotiated the purchase of the single shot patent, and also acquired the prototype of what was to become the Winchester Model 1886 lever action rifle. John Browning’s falling block design became a production item at Winchester in 1885, and became known as the Model 1885 single shot rifle. Browning and Winchester continued to enjoy a mutually beneficial relationship for a 19-year period, with a number of other notable and popular long arms coming to fruition.

There were two main types that evolved for the Model 1885. The “low wall” version showed a mostly-exposed hammer, and was designed for less powerful cartridges. The “high wall” style was more appropriate for higher powered rounds. Its frame covered most of the hammer when viewed from the side. It should be noted that some high walls were occasionally chambered for .22 rimfire and pistol-type centerfire cartridges. Both were Browning innovations, and both were designated and marketed by Winchester as the “Single Shot Rifle.” Both low and high wall were available with two frame profiles: thick side and thin side. The thick side frame has flat sides that do not widen out to match the stock. The thick side is found more commonly on low wall rifles and it’s somewhat rare on high walls. The thin side frame has milled sides that widen to match the stock.

The new Winchester took the competitive shooting market by storm. Major Ned Roberts, a noted “gun guy” of that era (and the originator of the .257 Roberts round), described the Model 1885 as “the most reliable, strongest, and altogether the best single shot rifle ever produced.” Many today would argue that it still is. The Model 1885 has been replicated (notably by Uberti), and the Single Shot is still being manufactured for Winchester in Japan.

From 1885 to 1920, Winchester manufactured almost 140,000 single shots. The action proved to be so tough that Winchester used it even after production ceased to test fire new rifle cartridges loaded to very high pressures. It was a versatile platform, and was made in more calibers than any other Winchester rifle. Numerous single shots in .22 caliber were made and shipped to the U.S. Army for marksmanship training. These “Winder muskets” were distinguished by nearly full-length stocks. They were informally named for Col. C. B. Winder, who liked the idea of using rifles about the same size as service guns, but chambered for .22 rimfire. The Winder musket had a 26" barrel, a Lyman receiver sight and was chambered in either .22 Short or .22 Long Rifle

Over its years of production, several styles of the rifle were offered. These included Plain Sporting Rifle, Special Sporting Rifle, Special Single Shot (competition) Rifle, Shuetzen Rifle, Musket, Carbine, and (20 gauge) Shotgun. In actuality, Winchester could provide about anything a customer could desire. Barrels as short as 14” (trapper style) and as long as 38”could be ordered. The barrels could be round, octagonal, or half-round (most often seen on Schuetzens). Color casehardened frames were available until August, 1901. Other options were fancy wood, set triggers, special sights, takedown styles, and cartridges as small as .22 CB to as large as .577 Eley. Both rimmed and rimless cartridges could be accommodated, and were. Telescopes, nickel, silver and gold plating, checkered and carved stocks and custom engraving could all be provided by the factory. The versatility of this gun allowed virtually any combination of features, and the factory was very busy with special orders.

Winchester’s modern line of 1885 rifles, made by Miroku in Japan and initiated in 2005, was dubbed the “Limited Series.” These fire present-day smokeless rounds, including .17 Remington, .243 Winchester, and .30-06 Springfield. The newer guns are equipped with rubber recoil pads and straight butts as standard equipment. The “Traditional Hunter” group is reminiscent of 19th Century styles with crescent butt plates and folding tang peep sights. They are made in .38-55, .405 Winchester (Teddy Roosevelt’s favorite African chambering), .45-70, and .45-90. The Low Wall can be chambered in .22 Hornet, .222 Rem., .223 Rem., .22-250 Rem., .243 Win., .204 Ruger and 6.5x55 Swede. A Low Wall Hunter is offered in .22 LR, .22 WMR, .17 HMR, as well as .17 WSM.

The rifle is operated as follows: Swing the lever down and fully forward to lower the breech block and the hammer. If a fired case or loaded round is present in the chamber, it will be backed out or ejected. Manually insert a cartridge into the chamber. It should be fully inserted to prevent interference with the breech block when it closes. The top front surface of the breech block is channeled to help load a cartridge that protrudes a bit from the chamber, but it’s best to be sure to push the round all the way in. Then close the lever. This locks the action and leaves the hammer at full cock. The gun is then ready to fire. If shooting is not imminent, the correct position of the hammer should be at half cock; it only takes a moment to cock the hammer to make it ready to fire again. If several shots are anticipated, many users will hold a few cartridges between the fingers of the support hand for quick grasping and insertion by the firing hand.

The rifle requires little or no disassembly for cleaning or lubricating purposes, as the action virtually exposes itself when the lever is moved down and forward. For low wall versions in .22 rimfire, the firing pin channel in the breechblock may require cleaning after maybe 10,000 or so rounds are fired. In the top of the breechblock there is a firing pin retaining screw offset a bit to the left. With an appropriately fitted screw driver, it can be unscrewed and removed carefully, while intercepting the spring-loaded firing pin with a finger. Once the firing pin and its spring are removed, the channel can be cleaned with a pipe cleaner and solvent and lightly lubed. The firing pin and spring can then be replaced, pushed forward with an appropriate probe, and the retaining screw re-inserted and tightened.

Amazingly, John Browning’s first invention is still with us today in modern versions. For the collector, originals will bring multiple thousands of dollars when found in any decent shape. Prices vary widely depending on the options present on the gun and condition. Modern Winchesters can be found and purchased for less than two thousand dollars each, while overseas reproductions are a bit more affordable. This rifle is a prized classic collectible for many, and fun to shoot.

(c) 2019 JLM
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Last edited by PALADIN85020; 11-24-2019 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:05 PM
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John, you need to edit your title as it's a model 1885, not 1855.
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:06 PM
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Great write up. I have a Browning 1885 from '74 i believe. It is a 22-250 and an absolutely beautiful rifle. One of my favorites.
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:09 PM
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John, you need to edit your title as it's a model 1885, not 1855.
Thanks - that was a slip of my befuddled fingers...

John
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:34 PM
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You may be right on the 2005 date for the "Limited Series", but it might be worth a double check. I'm no high wall reproduction expert, but the Traditional Hunter (and maybe others) were available almost ten years earlier. Small point that really matters very little.
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Old 11-23-2019, 01:38 PM
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About three years ago, returning from a fishing trip in VA, we stopped at a Cabela's in Greenville. I was looking at the rifles they had on display. One was a low-wall in .22 Centerfire, a BP cartridge and the parent of the .22 Hornet. I couldn't look down the bore, since it was chained to the rack, but have always regretted not spending another half-hour. If the bore was bad, I could have gotten it relined. And chambered for the Hornet. Missed opportunity? Maybe.
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Old 11-23-2019, 07:05 PM
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I never could decide myself between the Sharps and the High Wall.I broke my piggybank and bought both(reproductions).They both are beautiful examples of 19th century ingienosity and craftmanship.
Oh no!I am now starting to like the rolling block a lot!Guess I'll have to break my wife's piggybank!
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Old 11-23-2019, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qc Pistolero View Post
I never could decide myself between the Sharps and the High Wall.I broke my piggybank and bought both(reproductions).They both are beautiful examples of 19th century ingienosity and craftmanship.
Oh no!I am now starting to like the rolling block a lot!Guess I'll have to break my wife's piggybank!
I've had a reproduction rolling block in .45-70 and a custom .219 Zipper built on an original rolling block action. I just never could bring myself to like the simple but seemingly crude action with the incredibly long hammer fall.

Both my guns did, however, shoot well. My Shiloh Sharps may have just as long a hammer fall, or maybe it's even greater than the rolling block, but it just seems more refined. I guess none of these compare with a high wall Winchester, but tastes vary.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:18 PM
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Nice article on a great rifle. I've owned a couple of the mid '90s Brownings for quite a while now. Simple, tough, and accurate......
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tt66 View Post
Great write up. I have a Browning 1885 from '74 i believe. It is a 22-250 and an absolutely beautiful rifle. One of my favorites.

I would have guessed your rifle is a Browning B78. Browning made them with either a round barrel or an octagon barrel
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:59 PM
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Browning brought out the B-78 in 1978, and the 1885 in 1985. The Browning 1885 was the platform for their Black Powder Cartridge Rifle series also.

I have a 1885 Winchester from circa 2005 in 38-55. These have pre-drilled tangs for sight mounting, the front dovetail is the same size as a #17 Lyman Globe sight. I used the Medium height to see over the mid barrel sight. When removing the sights from the dovetails, They are designed to come out easy on one side and difficult the other(tapered dovetail). It has been awhile but I believe they exit and enter from the right as you would shoot it. Also the barrel and receiver ring are drilled and tapped for 2 piece scope bases.

The accuracy on my gun has been absolutely fantastic. I use handloads of 20:1 lead/tin alloy bullets (sized .377 and lubed with SPG) and Black Powder or smokeless at BP velocities (1150-1350 fps). I have used both the lever action 255 grain FN and the Pope style 330 grain Long Range bullets with equal accuracy at 100 to 200 yards.

Ivan
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:36 PM
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Dove tails are designed so that the sight is tapped in from right to left, and tapped out from left to right.

----

I have an Uberti 1885 High Wall in .30-30. It's a great rifle, nice looking, fun to shoot, and the recoil is minimal. There are also few firearms that are as smooth and classy to operate than a well made falling block single shot.

Since it is a single shot, you can obviously use spire point and that anb the 30" barrel gives exceptional performance for a .30-30. It's also quite accurate. With a Marbles Tang sight and a Lyman 17AHB front sight, I get 1 MOA 10 shot groups with it.





I also have a Browning 1885 Low Wall in .22 Hornet. It's a 1 MOA. Not quite as accurate as my mini mauser Hornets, but more fun to shoot.



The modern Browning 1885s have a much better arrangement for the forend, utilizing a much heavier hanger to support the handguard and free float the barrel than the Ruger No 1.
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:38 AM
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My favorite single shot rifle. Have a low wall that was chambered for te 25-20 single shot cartridge. barrel looks like 100 miles of bad road. Will be sending it out to get the barrel relined to the 32-20 cartridge. Great article about two great single shot rifles. Thanks for sharing. Frank
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:55 AM
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Good, interesting, well written article.

I flagged a bit on the use of “genre.” Maybe “class?” But perhaps that's just me. Also, I’d put the name of the Japanese manufacturer, Miroku, I presume, into the article.

Good stuff!
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Old 11-24-2019, 06:44 AM
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I have a Browning 1885 octagon barrel in 7mm Rem Mag, serial number dates to first year of introduction. Handles and shoots fantastic. Nice, classy gun.

John, I always look forward to your articles in the BLUE PRESS. Always well researched and written, I appreciate your effort.
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:43 AM
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I have a nice 1885 low wall that dates to 1888 in .22short................. nice wall hanger in the office!
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
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I would have guessed your rifle is a Browning B78. Browning made them with either a round barrel or an octagon barrel
You are correct. It is a B78 with a round barrel.
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:56 AM
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Great article on a great gun. I have five, and am partial to the .22 muskets. One addition:
"The barrels could be either round or octagonal."
Half rounds are scarce on other than schuetzens, but they are out there.

Bob
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Old 01-04-2025, 04:40 PM
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Hi, I have a very old Winchester Model 1885 that was originally chambered in 22 short. I recently had a gunsmith re-line the barrel and re-chamber it for 22 Mag. He said he test fired it and I could see a small amount of powder ash in the barrel, so I believe he in fact did fire it successfully. However, when I got home it would not fire. I tried both Remington and Fiocchi ammo. I've taken it apart to examine the firing pin and based on it's condition, I would like to try replacing it. However, a couple of pins fell our in the process of taking it apart and now I feel like I need a diagram to get it back together...LOL. I've googled for one but to no avail. All I found was a newer style center fire versions. I need the very old rim fire version. If someone could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it...Thanks In Advance.
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Old 01-04-2025, 06:06 PM
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Well done!
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Old 01-04-2025, 08:19 PM
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Default A very good write up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
This is a draft preview of a future article - as always, comments welcome!

John

The Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot rifle


An original 1885 low wall. (click for larger view)


An original 1885 high wall with the action open. (click for larger view)

Can you imagine a 23-year-old man, just a few years out of his teens, designing and patenting an epochal rifle and then selling it for manufacture to a major firearms company? And can you believe that over 130 years later, that rifle is still in demand and still being made? Sure, it’s hard to believe, but that man was incredibly exceptional. His name was John Moses Browning, and it was his very first design, the forerunner of many more to come. It was a single-shot falling block underlever rifle – strong, smooth-acting, quick to operate and versatile enough that was eventually chambered in over 91 calibers!

Browning designed the gun in 1878, and in the age of notable single shot rifles such as made by Remington, Sharps, Stevens, Maynard and others, it was a standout. In those days, competitive rifle target shooting was very popular, and some of Browning’s single shots, hand-made in his shop in Ogden, Utah, began to appear on the firing lines. They proved to be a hit with competitive shooters. The gun had some noteworthy features. The hammer retracted downwards so as to be out of the way as the action was opened, allowing quick and easy loading and unloading. The falling breech block was robust and locked up like a bank vault, enhancing accuracy and allowing heavily-loaded cartridges to be fired safely. The trigger was crisp. The receiver was made of premium steel, with two sizes of sidewalls available. The self-cocking hammer was of the traditional three-position type (down, half-cock, and full cock). Either open sights or tang-mounted vernier aperture types could be used.

The Browning shop, operated by John and his brothers, was hard-pressed to keep up with demand for this rifle, as they were only geared for laborious one-at-a-time manufacturing. Fortuitously, Thomas G. Bennett, then V.P. and general manager of Winchester Repeating Arms Company in New Haven, Connecticut, became aware of the Browning single shot. At that time, Winchester did not have a single shot rifle in its lineup, and needed one badly that could be more than viable for competition in that category. Accordingly, in 1883, Bennett traveled to Utah to meet with John Browning. While there, he negotiated the purchase of the single shot patent, and also acquired the prototype of what was to become the Winchester Model 1886 lever action rifle. John Browning’s falling block design became a production item at Winchester in 1885, and became known as the Model 1885 single shot rifle. Browning and Winchester continued to enjoy a mutually beneficial relationship for a 19-year period, with a number of other notable and popular long arms coming to fruition.

There were two main types that evolved for the Model 1885. The “low wall” version showed a mostly-exposed hammer, and was designed for less powerful cartridges. The “high wall” style was more appropriate for higher powered rounds. Its frame covered most of the hammer when viewed from the side. It should be noted that some high walls were occasionally chambered for .22 rimfire and pistol-type centerfire cartridges. Both were Browning innovations, and both were designated and marketed by Winchester as the “Single Shot Rifle.” Both low and high wall were available with two frame profiles: thick side and thin side. The thick side frame has flat sides that do not widen out to match the stock. The thick side is found more commonly on low wall rifles and it’s somewhat rare on high walls. The thin side frame has milled sides that widen to match the stock.

The new Winchester took the competitive shooting market by storm. Major Ned Roberts, a noted “gun guy” of that era (and the originator of the .257 Roberts round), described the Model 1885 as “the most reliable, strongest, and altogether the best single shot rifle ever produced.” Many today would argue that it still is. The Model 1885 has been replicated (notably by Uberti), and the Single Shot is still being manufactured for Winchester in Japan.

From 1885 to 1920, Winchester manufactured almost 140,000 single shots. The action proved to be so tough that Winchester used it even after production ceased to test fire new rifle cartridges loaded to very high pressures. It was a versatile platform, and was made in more calibers than any other Winchester rifle. Numerous single shots in .22 caliber were made and shipped to the U.S. Army for marksmanship training. These “Winder muskets” were distinguished by nearly full-length stocks. They were informally named for Col. C. B. Winder, who liked the idea of using rifles about the same size as service guns, but chambered for .22 rimfire. The Winder musket had a 26" barrel, a Lyman receiver sight and was chambered in either .22 Short or .22 Long Rifle

Over its years of production, several styles of the rifle were offered. These included Plain Sporting Rifle, Special Sporting Rifle, Special Single Shot (competition) Rifle, Shuetzen Rifle, Musket, Carbine, and (20 gauge) Shotgun. In actuality, Winchester could provide about anything a customer could desire. Barrels as short as 14” (trapper style) and as long as 38”could be ordered. The barrels could be round, octagonal, or half-round (most often seen on Schuetzens). Color casehardened frames were available until August, 1901. Other options were fancy wood, set triggers, special sights, takedown styles, and cartridges as small as .22 CB to as large as .577 Eley. Both rimmed and rimless cartridges could be accommodated, and were. Telescopes, nickel, silver and gold plating, checkered and carved stocks and custom engraving could all be provided by the factory. The versatility of this gun allowed virtually any combination of features, and the factory was very busy with special orders.

Winchester’s modern line of 1885 rifles, made by Miroku in Japan and initiated in 2005, was dubbed the “Limited Series.” These fire present-day smokeless rounds, including .17 Remington, .243 Winchester, and .30-06 Springfield. The newer guns are equipped with rubber recoil pads and straight butts as standard equipment. The “Traditional Hunter” group is reminiscent of 19th Century styles with crescent butt plates and folding tang peep sights. They are made in .38-55, .405 Winchester (Teddy Roosevelt’s favorite African chambering), .45-70, and .45-90. The Low Wall can be chambered in .22 Hornet, .222 Rem., .223 Rem., .22-250 Rem., .243 Win., .204 Ruger and 6.5x55 Swede. A Low Wall Hunter is offered in .22 LR, .22 WMR, .17 HMR, as well as .17 WSM.

The rifle is operated as follows: Swing the lever down and fully forward to lower the breech block and the hammer. If a fired case or loaded round is present in the chamber, it will be backed out or ejected. Manually insert a cartridge into the chamber. It should be fully inserted to prevent interference with the breech block when it closes. The top front surface of the breech block is channeled to help load a cartridge that protrudes a bit from the chamber, but it’s best to be sure to push the round all the way in. Then close the lever. This locks the action and leaves the hammer at full cock. The gun is then ready to fire. If shooting is not imminent, the correct position of the hammer should be at half cock; it only takes a moment to cock the hammer to make it ready to fire again. If several shots are anticipated, many users will hold a few cartridges between the fingers of the support hand for quick grasping and insertion by the firing hand.

The rifle requires little or no disassembly for cleaning or lubricating purposes, as the action virtually exposes itself when the lever is moved down and forward. For low wall versions in .22 rimfire, the firing pin channel in the breechblock may require cleaning after maybe 10,000 or so rounds are fired. In the top of the breechblock there is a firing pin retaining screw offset a bit to the left. With an appropriately fitted screw driver, it can be unscrewed and removed carefully, while intercepting the spring-loaded firing pin with a finger. Once the firing pin and its spring are removed, the channel can be cleaned with a pipe cleaner and solvent and lightly lubed. The firing pin and spring can then be replaced, pushed forward with an appropriate probe, and the retaining screw re-inserted and tightened.

Amazingly, John Browning’s first invention is still with us today in modern versions. For the collector, originals will bring multiple thousands of dollars when found in any decent shape. Prices vary widely depending on the options present on the gun and condition. Modern Winchesters can be found and purchased for less than two thousand dollars each, while overseas reproductions are a bit more affordable. This rifle is a prized classic collectible for many, and fun to shoot.

(c) 2019 JLM
The one exception being that you neglected to mention the original reason for TG Bennet's reason for going out to Utah in the first place. Apparently, there was a disagreement concerning a loading tool patent infringement that they were attempting to work out.
With that said I have been a big fan of these rifles for a very long time.
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Old 01-04-2025, 08:38 PM
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A paragraph on the BPCR would be a nice addition.
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Old 01-04-2025, 08:53 PM
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I have a Miroku build Winchester 45-70. IIRC they made a 250 limited run for Davidsons in 2016. She's a beaut!

Pics from their website. Mine would not do it justice. Hard to capture that deep blue.

The Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot rifle-img_2728-jpg


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Old 01-04-2025, 09:00 PM
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I have the same


Quote:
Originally Posted by WardenRoss View Post
I have a Miroku build Winchester 45-70. IIRC they made a 200 limited run for Davidsons in 2013. She's a beaut!

Pics from their website. Mine would not do it justice. Hard to capture that deep blue.

The Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot rifle-img_2728-jpg


The Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot rifle-img_2727-jpg


The Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot rifle-img_2726-jpg
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Old 01-04-2025, 09:05 PM
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I have the same
Hey! I looked it up and edited the date for 2016 and 250 units built.

I sure remember it as 2013, but apparently I was mistaken. Duh!


,
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Old 01-04-2025, 09:09 PM
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Default Lever is also a safety

A feature of the Browning B-76 and 1885 is total hammer control without touching it. I don't know if the original Winchester 1885's had this feature, but I think so. It is extremely handy if a scope occludes the loading trough. If the trigger is pulled with the lever halfway up the hammer can be let completely down without touching it. The lever can also function as a big safety lever by partially depressing it. I used mine in deer stands to keep the gun on "safe" with the lever halfway down. Raising the lever without touching the trigger allowed the hammer to cock normally. Of course you wouldn't want to drop the gun with the lever halfway opened on a loaded round, but responsibly used this little known lever safety ploy makes for a great visible hammer weapon without thumbing the hammer spur. Like any external hammer firearm the condition of the cocking mechanism is always visually known. I like it!
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Old 01-04-2025, 09:20 PM
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Hey! I looked it up and edited the date for 2016 and 250 units built.

I sure remember it as 2013, but apparently I was mistaken. Duh!


,
Mine's a 40-65; love it!
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Old 01-04-2025, 09:48 PM
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A Browning B78 for good measure
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Old 01-04-2025, 10:08 PM
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I still find these to be one of the best looking single shot rifles. Thanks for the write up.
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Old 01-04-2025, 10:25 PM
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I have the same
Surprised they are showing the Marbles and the midbarrel sight in the factory picture, as the latter interferes with the former.
I put the tang sight on mine, which lets old guys shoot irons. But I blanked the midbarrel sight.
BTW, my Mirochester is in .357(unless I missed it, an unmentioned caliber), and is a real sweetheart.
Moon
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Old 01-04-2025, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
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Surprised they are showing the Marbles and the midbarrel sight in the factory picture, as the latter interferes with the former.
I put the tang sight on mine, which lets old guys shoot irons. But I blanked the midbarrel sight.
BTW, my Mirochester is in .357(unless I missed it, an unmentioned caliber), and is a real sweetheart.
Moon
I have two Winchester Mirokus with the iron sight and tang sight - a .32-40 and a 38-55. For many years I had an original low wall .32-20 with iron sight and tang sight. I seldom used the barrel sights but did have them zeroed for use. I never had any interference when using the tang sight.

Could a portion of your barrel sight have been blocking your line of sight sight after zeroing the windage of the tang sight? Not a criticism, just trying to picture how this could happen.
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Old 01-05-2025, 09:52 AM
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I have two original 1885s. A low wall .22 long made in 1888 and a high wall from 1891. I've had the low wall relined due to barrel wear. It has a folding leaf rear barrel sight which does not interfere with the tang sight. The high wall has a half octagon barrel but is otherwise a standard rifle profile. It was originally chambered in 32-40 but was re-bored to 45-70 before it came to me. Both show their age but are nice and tight mechanically and accurate.
I've always wondered why Winchester didn't have a different model designation for the low wall version as it it different enough to warrant it, but it is what it is.

John
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