Anyone here shooting a Sharps or replica Sharps on a regular basis?
I have been considering trying one out, but am still stuck on which makers produce a quality gun, which cartridge suits my needs etc.
Thus far, I am sold on the replica guns as an original Sharps is out of my price range.
Thinking 45-70 would be the simplest cartridge due to supply of components for reloading and more models of guns. However, some of the 40 caliber cartridges seem appealing, but a lot of variation in those is proving a bit confusing.
38/55 has my attention as well but seems less versatile than the 45/70.
Just seeing if I can get some personal insight from forum members.

The 45/70would be the most practicable as you can buy ammo.off the shelf
If you hand load take your pick as to what you want to shoot .Uberti makes a good gun , at a reasonable cost ,Shilo makes an EXCELLENT one at a high cost

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age is just a number

I had one in 45-70 for several years. I sold it in a minute of stupidity. I also have a Winchester 1885 by Uberti that's 405 Winchester but I load it with "imitation" BP and call it a 40-70 Sharps (cartridge dimensions are nearly identical). Also had a 45-90 1886 and a 38-55 Marlin lever.

The 45-70 is the easiest to get ammo for and loading components. My Sharps would consistently hit a steel pig (life size) at 500 yards with a tang sight (7 out of 10) and a steel deer at 700 yards (about 4-5 out of ten). So would by rebuilt 1903A3. The Sharps and my 300 Win Mag were about equal in accuracy.

During the "buffalo hunting craze" after the Civil War, the proliferation of calibers was compounded by cartridges with different dimensions made by different gun makers but called the same.

The 45-90 is an "Express" load of the 45-70. About 1/10th inch longer and uses a lighter bullet at a faster speed. It was designed for smaller animals (Elk, maybe moose, etc).

The 38-55, even within guns of the same make varies a lot. Brass can be made from 30-30. No real benefit over a 35 Remington.

Hope that helps.

To start out .45-70 Gov't. is the way to go for all the reason you posted.

If you're looking a replicas Shiloh is still to number one dog on the block with C. Sharps (on the same block on the other side of the street
) a very close second. Pedersoli is the next big step down and I would looking below them.

These days you can find Shilohs and C. Sharps at a reasonable prices used.

A couple of Shilohs

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Bill Bates

get Mike Venturino's book on shooting Buffalo rifles. a lot of information and a good read if even if you don't shoot that type of rifle

Personally I think the C. Sharps guns are a little closer to true Sharps than the Shiloh, but of course it may be due to the fact I own one

I posted that question on the ASSRA Forum and it was about 50/50.

I believe the C. Sharps guns are basically built on original equipment. Mine is a Heavy Hartford Long Range Target made when they were still using Badger barrels. Now they use Green Mountain barrels.

For the uninformed Winchester calibers (for the most part) are the caliber of the gun and the weight of the charge in black powder (ie 45-70, 45-90, etc.)

Sharps calibers (for the most part) are the caliber of the gun and the length of the cartridge case (?) (ie 45 2-1/10", 45 2-4/10")

Pedersoli's have won a lot of awards so dont look down on them as an option.

Here is my thread on the ASSRA Forum which anyone interested in single shot rifles should join.

ASSRA Forum - C Sharps vs Shiloh??

I have a .45x2-1/10” C Sharps 1875 that I haven’t shot in years. Without digging out of the safe I think it’s a 33” heavy octagon barrel. I made the mistake of taking it out for deer here in Pa. It didn’t feel too heavy in the morning but at 6 PM it felt like I was dragging a phone pole around. I used to reload for it and cast my own. The 500 grainers would really thump you. The 300s were not bad. I used to load cast with 2400 and a 3/4” Dacron filler. Never really tried to develop an accurate target load. I got married and you know the rest. My buddy and I would shoot ours at rocks on the berm at 200yds at the club. It was a hoot watching those long 500 grain bullets in flight through a spotting scope. I think the .45-70 is the best choice running smokeless powder. The .45-90 and up were trying to achieve with black powder what is easily duplicated with smokeless.
FWIW mine fell off my bench onto a hard concrete floor. Dinged the muzzle, front sight hood, and hammer screw. I shipped it back to Sharps and they recrowned it, reblued it, replaced the hood, hammer screw and a couple other parts that I can’t remember and shipped it back for around $80. More than fair for the work done.

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Who are those guys?

I have a Shiloh Sharps 1874 made at Farmington in 1974, before they moved to Montana. Mine is in 45-70. I have Montana Vintage Arms, long range sights on it (about 3.5" tall). The exact bullet depends on the range! Further target/heavier bullet/more recoil. These guns are made for lead bullets, jacketed ammo is safe, but the style of rifling is for lead!

I owned an Italian Sharps 1874, that was imported in 1984 by FIE. That gun shot poor with black or smokeless, with soft or hard lead projectiles of every weight I tried (17 different bullets)!

Not a Sharp's but a good single shot is the Winchester High Wall 1885, I have a 2005 production in 38-55. With a smokeless load at 1250fps under a soft lead 255 LFN, I put 20 consecutive shots in a dime sized group at 100 yards, using Lyman tang sight and Globe front sight with a fine crosshair insert. (from off a bench, definitely not offhand!)

Keep velocities to what Black Powder would do with the same projectile weight and smokeless is fine in modern repos!

Sight Dovetails: Sharps uses a much larger dovetail that Winchester/Browning. Lyman's dovetailed sights only fit Winchester/Browning and modern Remington Rolling Blocks (Old Remingtons us the large size.)

Scopes: Proper scopes for the old single shot rifles are low powered, expensive, and not the greatest quality glass (compared to modern scopes!) Montana Vintage Arms makes 2 period correct scope systems, start by thinking big money and go up from there! Modern Browning 1885's are drilled and tapped from the factory for modern scope bases.

Ivan

I have a Shiloh from the Farmington days. It's the whopper - .50-140. I was interested to have it because I already had a Scottish double rifle chambered in .500 3-1/4", which is almost the same.

Everybody says the big .50 is hell to shoot, but I don't think so. Sure, if you were going to shoot 150 rounds in an afternoon, but that's not going to happen. The rifle has a lot of heft, which absorbs recoil. It's a heck of a fun rifle to shoot, especially with all the smoke and flame of black powder.

I also have a couple of .45-70s - one on a Ballard action, and one on a Sharps-Borchardt action. I like them both. The Ballard is a new arrival, so I really don't know it yet. It will be black powder and lead only.

I have one rifle chambered in .40-70 Sharps bottle neck. It's a light hunting rifle and really a nice one to shoot.

Then I have a couple of .38-55 rifles - one a Ballard, and one a Stevens 44-1/2. They are great rifles, and I like the caliber. The Ballard is a vintage gun that I only shoot black powder and lead bullets in. The Stevens has a newly fit Douglas barrel. It's capable of everything a .38-55 can do with smokeless and jacketed bullets. Two different rifles, really.

I would tend to shy away from a .40-70 SS. Since the demise of Jamison there has been no brass for that one.

If I were going to do a modern Sharps 1874 replica I would do it in .45/70 (2.1"), .45-90 (2.4"), or the big 50 for a hoot (be the envy of all your friends). I wouldn't go as small as a .38-55 in the big 1874 Sharps action.

Plan to shoot black powder and lead bullets. Above all, enjoy yourself!

Curl

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Curly
SWCA #2599; SWHF #626

The fundamental paradox of the Sharps replicas from a modern perspective is that it is relatively heavy and has the reputation and mythology of a “long-range rifle”, but its by far most popular chambering among the replicas, the .45/70, is the very archetype of a close-up slow and heavy brush round.

So you have to figure out what you want to be doing primarily before deciding on the caliber.

I got into replica Sharps back in the 1990s because I really would have liked to hunt with a muzzle-loader, traditional, for the experience, not modern in-line to exploit longer seasons.

But with the usual weather in the coastal mountains of the Pacific Northwest in fall, keeping everything dry was just a tad too “authentic”. So I hit upon the Sharps. I owned a few including a surperbly finished Pedersoli Billy Dixon model, but my favorite and my everyday hunting rifle for several years was an Armi-Sport 1874 Business model whose barrel I had professionally shortened to 26”.

Great gun. Same limitations as a muzzleloader, one shot, lousy iron sights, so limited range, and no tacticool sling and heavy, but when I actually had a shot, it did go bang every time. Never needed a second one either.

I always used commercial 300gr. HP ammo from Winchester, Federal, and Remington; at muzzleloader distances, under 100 yards, they all work. For elk, I bought some 300gr Noslers, but I ended up never getting a shot.

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One thing I forgot to point out, and Absalom's photos reminded me. The crescent butt plate in a high recoil round can be damaging to your shoulder! If ordering new try for a "Shotgun" style (flat) butt plate or if you find an existing gun with a Crescent butt plate, You can buy or make lace on recoil pads. See Absalom's photos above for the detail of filling in the crescent!

Ivan

Then you could skip the cartridge choice confusion entirely and go back to one of the original version replicas using .54 bullets (or round balls, which I use mostly), black powder/Pyrodex, and musket caps. In fact you can roll your your own paper cartridges if you want to go to the trouble. I have one of the Italian replicas, and it is loads of fun to shoot. Also it groups very well at 50 yards.

This is my route for Sharps shooting. I bought a NOS IAB 1863 carbine and scrounged up enough information to manufacture ammunition. I need to nitrate some more paper and make a run of cartridges as I'm getting short of .54 Sharps ammo!

DO NOT FORGET the action they saw defending against indian attacks. Billy Dixon sniped a horsebacked indian from hundreds of yards with his Sharps. They weren't used JUST for buffalo hunting. Mathew Quigley was also a user of a Sharps rifle in his fights down in Australia.

Thanks all for the information.
I have to put this project on hold for a couple more months.
My lust for Browning Superposed 20 gauges took a bite out of my fun fund the other day.
When a Superposed fan runs across a unmolested late 50’s 20 gauge with 28” IC/Mod barrels for a great price thy don’t say no. At least this one doesn’t.
Thanks again to all for your input.

When your piggybank gets fat again you might also consider a replica made by Pedersoli.
When a friend of mine decided he'd go back living at home(England),he offered me his at a real bargain price.I was gathering my pennies for a Shiloh but couldn't pass it up.The wood,while not superb is in the very good class.Wood to metal fit is superb everywhere.I went so far as to order a 38-55 High Wall from Pedersoli again,expecting maybe something a little different...and it was.Wood figure was very very nice with same wood to metal fit.
As for the caliber,go for the 45-70.Many components to play with(I doubt I'll live long enough to try all of them out)and much easier than the 38-55 to get accurate ammo.

I bought a Taylor's replica in 45-70 at an NRA banquet about 20 years ago. I understand they were importing Pedersoli guns at that time. I've been very happy with it using Pyrodex, 777 and smokeless. Mine has the shotgun butt which I much prefer to the crescent on my 1886 Winchester.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

I picked up a Pedersoli 1874 sharps infantry rifle for a grand. Has the barrel mounted ladder sight. Since I already cast my own bullets and have the Lyman 457125 500 grain bullet mold, hopefully will get a chance to shoot it soon.
I had a good friend who had sharps rifles basically from just about all major makers. Farmindale sharps. Pedersoli sharps, C.sharps and Shilo sharps all in 45-70. Since he was into BPCR shooting he compared the various brands over a long period of time. His favorite sharps was Pedersoli. Frank

I bought a Taylor's Arms Quigley Down Under (with double set triggers) about 16 years ago with extra sites for $1K. I think the rifle was built by Armani. Today the ad says Chiappa. I saw a current production rifle at the NRA convention in Atlanta about 3 years ago that is identical to the one I own. The link: 1874 Sharps Sporting Rifle .45-70 32” Octagonal, Case Hardened Frame, Forend has a Hartford-Style, Pewter Forend Tip, with Schnabel Forearm, Walnut Stock, Double-Set Trigger, Model 138A

I bought an 8# jug of Accurate Arms 5744 powder just after getting the rifle. I shoot about 31 grains with a 400 / 420 grain bullet. I think I have about 2# of powder left. You need a cast bullet diameter of at least 0.459" for good accuracy. I bought a box of 350 grain cast bullets at a gun show that couldn't shoot a group at more than 50 yards.

On a good day with silhouette rear sight and globe front sight shooting off a front rest, I have kept all shots in the 10 ring on a 25 yard bullseye target at 100 yards with a Saeco cast gas-checked 420 grain bullet. At 200 yards with a 100 yard rifle target 8 shots scored 78 points (six @ 10, 2 @ 9) It is a fun gun to shoot, at the outdoor range it draws a crowd. It will be the last center-fire rifle I sell.

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S&WHF 366

It really depends how you intend to use it.

I bought an Armi Sport Quigley model sharps way back in the day. I found it was long throated and allowed a lot of FFg black powder to be used when seating the bullet well out of the case.

With the 480 gr Lyman #457658, I got solid 1 MOA accuracy using Goex FFg, a powder drop tube, a powder compression die, a card wad, and SPG lube. Accuracy kept improving the faster I pushed it. I'm tempted to have it reamed to .45-90, but .45-70 brass is easy to find and I have a lot on hand.

I also no longer live in north western SD, so I'm not shooting it at 500-600 yards but rather 250-300 yards here in NC. At those ranges and for informal shooting, I just use 405 gr flat points and Unique with a 1/4" x1" x 1" poly fiber wad (cut from 1/4" quilt batting) to take up the extra space in the case. It's also a solid 1 MOA load. .45-90 would make that load impractical.

A Quigley model Sharps or anything similar (32-34" heavy octagon barrel) is nice off the bench but very heavy to carry. If I had it top dop over again, I'd get a 30" barrel in a lighter octagon profile.

Crescent butt plates were mentioned above as being a poor choice for heavy recoil, but I disagree. Yes, if you seat the butt in your shoulder pocket it'll hurt. But they are not designed to be used that way.

Instead they are designed to be placed out on the upper arm just outside the shoulder. The curved plate fits your upper arm, and there's some "give" when it recoils. You'll also find the length of pull is designed accordingly, and when used properly a curved crescent or carbine buttplate equipped fire arm comes across the chest much more than a firearm with a straight shotgun style buttplate. Again that's by design and provides the "give"to absorb recoil.





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I also have an Uberti deluxe model replica of an 1885 High Wall in .30-30. I bought it because I'd watched it sit on the rack in a local gun shop for a few years and threw them a low ball offer.

Much to my surprise it's one of my favorite rifles. It's also 1 MOA accurate with inexpensive 150 gr plated bullets on top of RL7 and it's very pleasant to shoot. It has a very smooth action and won't beat me up in 20 years when I'm 75.





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I have a rifle pattern Winchester Model 94 in .38-55, and it's an excellent cartridge - if and only if you handload. You can shoot 200-250 grain jacketed bullets at 1700 fps smokeless powder velocities, or shoot 200-280 grain lead bullets at 1100-1200 fps black powder velocities.

Accuracy with the jacketed bullets is excellent at 1700 fps, and accuracy with lead bullets is excellent at 1100-1200 fps - but generally not the other way around.

I'm looking for another deluxe model Uberti 1885 in .38-55 as I suspect it will be the near perfect single shot for mid range black powder era cartridge shooting.

I have a Pedersoli Sharps Model 1874 in .40-65 Winchester. It has a Hoke Vernier tang sight with an MVA #113 Sharps low profile front sight with extra inserts. Right now I have a Unertyl 20 power scope mounted on it.
I use smokeless powder and have shot paper patched bullets, handloads, and some factory, which I used to get brass. The throat is large so I cast bullets and size them to .417" or .418", and get very little leading.

Shiloh Rifle Co.
1874 Sharps Sporter #1 (that's would be my choice )
45-70 after much reading it seems 45-70 is the least finicky to load for .

I would not buy an original to shoot extensively with ...they are just to valuable pieces of history and the steels are old .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

45-70 has my vote too. There are quite a few reproductions available with the Shiloh rifles being at the top end with accordingly high prices. But with a little luck you can get into the game for under $1000 with one of the used Italian clones. I traded into a Pendersoli 1874 Infantry rifle two years ago. It is the sniper rifle version with double set triggers and target sights. Got a good deal because someone bored it out to 45-120. It was a really good deal because it came with reloading dies, a 535 gr RCBS bullet mold, and 80 pieces of 45-120 brass. After the first trip to the range I realized just why it was such a really good deal for me!
Haven't tried it with 45-70 cases but it should work, the only difference being case length... and recoil!

John

Never owned a Sharps rifle, but had a buddy leave 3 of them in my possession for too damn long haha! As others have said, 45-70 is the best cartridge to go with if you like paying less than $200 a shot. Just double check your load data to make sure it's safe with the trap door style and you'll be Quigly-ing it down under in no time. Also, I recommend the carbine version. Much shorter and easier to wield while retaining the history and cool factor.