Hello all,

Not looking to build anything first and foremost.

What are some factory options around 1500 or under?

For the wife.

Thanks!

Under 6 lbs was the target weight for the XM177 with a 20 round loaded magazine. 40+ years of product improvement and mission creep have pretty much made that a unicorn. Sticking with a barrel length that doesn't get you into NFA territory is gonna be tough to make weight.

John Farnam (defense-trainingdotcom) has a signature piece with a pencil (light weight) barrel that would probably come close. Don't recall who builds it. I expect there's other factory sources but I'd shy away from custom builders (Bubbas Outboard Haven and AR Shoppe). You might also want to visit the Rock River website. They do do quality.

Colt 6420 weighs 5 lbs 10 ounces. Light weight pencil barrel, two position aluminum collapsible stock, A1 sights.



Made from 1985 to 1987 or so, not plentiful but they are out there. The 6520 is similar in weight but has A2 sights, many more 6520's out there. Either can be found for less than $1500 is you look hard enough, a used one with some finish wear. Safe queens are bringing more money....

Good luck with your search.
Bought this one just yesterday....NIB.
Bushmaster XM 15.
Has the removable carry handle/Sight.
Might switch it out for some optics of some kind.
Not sure of the exact weight but can't be
much more than 6lbs.

I'm not much of an AR shooter and gave away 2 to
family last summer.
With the current state of affairs thought it might be good
to add one back into the safe.

Del Ton DT Sport Mod. 2 comes in at 5.8 lbs. empty. Much less than $1500. MSRP is just under $700, so it would sell for less if you can find one. I have the old Del Ton Sport Lite which is similar. It's been a very reliable AR.

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Or something like that . . .

Thanks everyone.

I have an XM-15 already but modified it by replacing the barrel and handguard for a free-floating setup. I did it so I could grab out further for more stability.

My father also has one, but for some reason it feels heavier than my current one that was modified. I believe it has to do with the HBAR setup, but can not be sure.

Thanks again everyone for your input.

Looks like you are set and you're not looking to build, but it's a good way to get a rifle that does what you want it to do.

This one has a slick side upper, a 16" pencil barrel. With either a short entry stock or a plastic telestock its as light as it gets with a 16" barrel and aluminum upper and lower.



An XM177E2 clone is also an option that'll keep you just under 6 pounds, although I used a slightly heavier 12" barrel on this one.

The BCM RECCE-16 LW weighs in at 5.8 lbs.

BCM(R) RECCE-16 MCMR-LW Carbine AR15

IMHO, a little heavier is easier to shoot well.

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Foster Positivity.

Another vote for the Colt 6520 or 6720 if you want the flat top version. I’ve got both and they are really handy little carbines.

An AR pistol with a brace would make weight easier.

This won't really be any help to you, but I just had to throw it in.

This past December, I was at the Crossroads of the West/Small Arms Review show in Phoenix. I remember seeing an extremely skeletonized AR (rifle, not handgun) on display. I read the sign that was next to it. It listed a bunch of specs, but all I remember is that it weighed 3 lbs. & change, and was around $4K! Would love to have a sub-4 lb. AR, but I wasn't quite interested at *that* cost!

I don't remember the exact model number, but Bushmaster used to offer an AR-15 with a carbon fiber receiver. Never owned one, but did shoot one. Seemed to work as it should, and it was very lightweight. No idea about the durability, but they were offered for a number of years.

Larry

Yes. They were called "Carbon-15s". If I recall correctly, I believe that Bushmaster had bought out the company that originally manufactured them...Professional Ordnance. I own one of their (Professional Ordnance) AR-15 pistols. I don't know what material Bushmaster may have used in theirs, but the Professional Ordnance guns had polymer receivers.

I'm fairly certain that the ultra-lightweight AR that I had mentioned earlier...was not constructed using polymer. It may have had various materials and alloys...carbon fiber, aluminum, titanium, unobtainium, and Lordonlyknowswhatelseanium.

This would fit what your looking for. The government will charge you an extra $200 for it thou.

Build it on a pistol lower, use a brace instead of an actual buttstock, and no $200 needed.

You may have to build rather than buy off the shelf. With carbon fiber components and pencil barrels it is doable.

You have to be careful with Pencil barrels though and who makes them. Some of them, after a bit of heat, shoot like wet noodles in a hurricane. I exaggerate, but the accuracy loss can be significant

Agreed. I have two 16" M16A1 style uppers that I purchased surplus from a police department when they upgraded to M4 uppers. One was off a Colt SP1 and the other off an M16A1. Both shoot 5 shot 1.5 MOA groups with M193, which is average accuracy with 55 gr FMJ in a quality 1-12 twist barrel. Both will also maintain that accuracy as the barrel warms up.

If a pencil barrel is not properly stress relieved it'll start walking rounds all over the target as it warms up.

Thanks all.

I forgot to mention that I wrote another post regarding AR Pistols and many people said to shy away from that, which I can understand their POV's on that subject. I was initially going to go that route for her, but with the extra loud muzzle blast and concussion, it is kind of a turn off. Also, the brace does not weld as well as a stock.

Keep em' coming!

AR-15 pistols in .223/5.56 are popular, but that doesn't make them a great idea.

Consider for a minute that the 5.56mm, 10.5" barrel Colt XM177E1 and the 11.5" XM177E2 carbines had a moderator installed that reduced the sound level to something comparable to the 20" M16 rifle.

Now imagine shooting the 55,000 psi 5.56x45 cartridge in a 10.5", 8" or even 7" barrel. It's muffs plus plugs loud, and the muzzle flash is impressive.

It also gets a bit more complicated as those short barrels also end up with different gas systems, with both higher port pressures, and less time between the bullet passing the port and exiting the muzzle. Unless it's properly engineered, and well matched to the load it ends up being either unreliable or way over gassed, which beats up the buffer and spring.

The US Army added that extra inch of barrel very intentionally, and going shorter than 11.5" starts to have more downside in terms of loss of ballistics performance, increased noise and decreased reliability.

I'm not a big fan.

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I do however like 9mm AR pistols. In 9mm an AR is normally blowback operated so it's dirt simple and very reliable - once you get the buffer and bolt weight right.

That's more challenging that it sounds however as the recoil velocity of a 9mm AR depends on not just the weight of the buffer and bolt, but also the weight of the barrel. So if you shorten the barrel, and reduce the weight, it impacts the buffer weight needed for optimum performance.

The 9mm bolt is heavier than a .223/5.56 bolt as is the buffer. It's not uncommon to have a buffer weight in the 8-11 oz range compared to 3 oz for a standard rifle buffer and 3.8 oz to 5.4 oz for the heavier carbine buffers.

That extra weight tends make them noticeably heavier than a .223 AR in a similar configuration.

The blow back operation also means the recoil of a 9mm AR-15 isn't any lighter than an AR-15 in .223/5.56mm. It's a bit slower (and more of a push than a slap) than the AR-15, but it's a lot more than you get in a gas operated 9mm SMG.

The upside however is the noise level is significantly lower.

A 8" to AR-15 pistol in .223/5.56 will produce 165 dB of sound.

At 11.5" it's down to 164 dB.

At 16" it's down to 163 dB.

At 20" it's down to 162 dB.

That doesn't sound like a lot until you realize that the sound intensity doubles every 3 dB.

In comparison my 16" 9mm AR-15 carbines produce 117 dB and my 8.3" 9mm AR-15 pistol produces 120 dB, measured at the shooter's ear.

I get just under 1525 fps with 115 gr XTPs or HAPs in the 16" barrel and 1350 fps in an 8.3" barrel and 1 MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yards in all three. The reticle in the Burris AR-332 also works great with a 100 yard zero, letting me shoot effectively out to 200 yards. All with the same loads I use and practice with in my self defense pistol.

Not a real good picture but.....LW 16" barrel on a CavArms polymer lower. Metal backup sights and Micro Aimpoint. As pictured unloaded, 6lb 4oz.









I agree with the above poster about a 9mm AR pistol. This one is 5lb 10oz unloaded.

I "2nd" the BCM RECCE-16. I was lucky enough to find one used at LGS and snapped it up. It is very lightweight, the BCG is top notch and smooth, The BCM Gunfighter stock is tight, the free float handguard is easy to grasp, the BCM pistol grip is a great angle and the Mod 0 Compensator practically eliminates what little muzzle rise there is making followup shots super smooth. It has everything 'out of the box' that everyone upgrades their AR too. I love shooting mine and
it's my go-to AR. You won't be disappointed! Here's a great review by Hickock45:

Here's another one to consider: For a little less $ than the BCM RECCE-16 but with some of the same features and even several BCM components, you might also consider a Springfield Armory Saint Victor 5.56 model. Friend bought one and got to shoot it; it is very nice! I know some people would NEVER buy anything from them, but that's your choice. It is a good product regardless. Here's a spec sheet: SAINT(R) Victor 5.56 AR-15 Rifle - Springfield Armory and a TTAG review: Gun Review: Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15 Rifle - The Truth About Guns

firefighterjohn,

Thanks for the suggestion regarding Springfield. I saw the rifle on the website and it is listed at 6.9 lbs, so I will have to defer from that.

However, the suggestion from Rio Laxas and yourself for the RECCE rifle is where it is going to be at. I have put notifications on AIM SURPLUS and BCM (for the ELW upper receiver group) to be alerted when they are back in stock.

I will also contact the local fun shop and see if I can order it through them tomorrow.

All the best

Crh1943,

You're welcome. It's the complete package; so smooth shooting, especially with double taps and followup shots. I just checked Primary Arms and it shows they have the BCM RECCE 16's in stock: https://www.primaryarms.com/bravo-co....56-nato-rifle . They have carried BCM products for a long time. My next BCM will be a RECCE 11 pistol.
Tim of Military Arms Channel has done an Endurance Test series of videos on the RECCE 16. The latest begs the question can it make it to 7K rounds:

And ^^^THIS^^^ says it all...

What is the purpose of the rifle? Personal defense? Fun shooter? Does it have to be an AR?

An M1 Carbine is ~ 5lbs, easy to shoot (low recoil and muzzle blast), and pretty effective with the right ammo. A very nice one can be had for your budget, though ammo is not as readily available as 5.56.

Yankee Hill Machine might be a good source. They're a small shop with a catalog of quality lightweight lowers and uppers, all made in-house. Good people to deal with, too.

I like lightweight barrel ARs, the way Eugene intended them to be built. Here is my thoughts:

1) Have a Colt 6720 - not being distributed presently but they are the old school standard to measure against. Not always pretty to look at, but the older style carbine length gas system has wonderful balance close to the mag well.
2) Have a custom BCM Lightweight Barrel Upper - BCM has a great reputation and I have been nothing but satisfied.
3) Brownells has a neat What Would Stoner Do?, WWSD, project coming out shortly that will be super lightweight, using the Cav Arms-type polymer lower wwsd2020 | Top Rated Supplier of Firearm Reloading Equipment, Supplies, and Tools - Colt
4) Numerous boutique makers of PDW-type ARs that are out there, which is what Springfield Arsenal is cloning; Matrix Arms has a model close to your price range - Firearms Archives - Maxim Defense