So my buddy asks me to be on the lookout for a Marlin .444 lever action. He is dead set on getting one so I’m curious

What is the allure of this model? This caliber?

He wants it for deer hunting and maybe black bear in the northeast.

Anyone own one? Anything to be concerned about? What to look for if I find a used one to avoid any headaches. Is it hard to reload for?

I told him you picked a lousy time to look for a new gun especially one in a non standard cartridge.

Thanks in advance

They ARE a thumper!!

Randy

The attraction of a .444 Marlin is really about the big bore rifle.
The .444 can get impressive speeds for a big bore, to say the least. IMR 4198, and H4198 are the bread and butter powders for most of the bullet weights up to 400 grs.
You can use .429 cal bullets, but the 240 gr 44 mag bullets almost rip apart when they hit something substantial. 265 gr and up are meant more for .444 velocities.
With the .444, you can hunt anything from mice to moose with it, as my friend says.
They are delightfully accurate.
Now, the older ones, usually have the 1 in 38 inch twist, with micro groove barrels. These are, usually meant to be shot with 240 - 270 gr bullets. Most of the time, they won't stabilize the heavy bullets, 300 grs and up.
The newer ones have the Ballard rifling, and 1 in 20 inch, and they can handle all bullet weights up to 400 to 405 grs.
The older ones are a little pricey, because they were made by the actual Marlin company. Newer ones are made by the Remington owned Marlin Firearms Corp, and aren't as nice looking as the old ones, but still function as well as the old ones.
The only drawback I know of is lack of factory ammo made for it nowadays.
Marlin, a year and a half ago, just started production up again of the .444. Right now, it's probably hard to even find a new one with Remington going bankrupt, again, in 2 years time.
I hope this helps.


Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

In the late 1960’s, a friend got a job with an Alaskan outfitter and bought one to take to Alaska.

He shot some game with it in Alaska but found it lacked penetration on anything larger than deer and the bullets were quite fragile. He ended up trading it for a 30-06, which was much more effective for big game.

I think the early ammo for the 444 was loaded with the same projectiles as the 44 mag. At 444 velocities, these things didn’t hold together.

I’d be much more interested in a 45-70 than a 444 if I was looking for a big bore lever action.

The Hornady Superformance 265 grain load is excellent, but I heard they aren't being made now. I just checked the Hornady website and they still have them listed. My rifle was made in 1968 and is of the first variant. It is very accurate and hits hard out 200-250 yards. I haven't shot game with it, yet.

I'm a big Marlin fan. I own several and a 444 is on my list to own one of these days when I find the right one. Good luck in your search.

J3

The failings of the 444 were due more to the bullet than the cartridge. But whether old or new rifling, it is a rifle/cartridge combo that will shine will good hand loads. For years, the lack of a good jacketed bullet made the 444 a poor second to the 45-70. It's still harder to find good rifle quality bullet for the former than it is for the latter.

John

I am a fan of Marlins and own a few. I stick to those that were made by Marlin and most of mine are pre safety the safety started about 1984. I owned a 45/70 but not a 444. I sold it as I built a 450 Bushmaster and didn't need either much less both here in Florida. I would try and find one built before 2008. If you go with a new one you better check it over good before buying it.

My 444 Marlin is from 1970, and the 265 gr bullet is awesome on deer. Overkill really. The first deer I shot with it was a small 6 pointer, at about 80 yards. The little buck was walking towards my left when I fired, and when I got across the creek to it, it had spun it it the other direction.

It was down before the rifle's scope came back on target, so it didn't just turn to leave and fall over. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot it over 200 yards yet, but it out performed the two 45-70's I'd owned previously.

Mine's going with me to the "Happy Hunting Grounds" beyond.

I have a early model , with the 24 inch barrel and the Monte Carlo stock. I'm not really sure why the 240 grain was ever used. It never fit the qualifications for this rifle but in the early '70's it was what Remington loaded for it. I have never used that round and have always reloaded for my 444. The Hornady 265 was designed for the 444 and it is what I have always used. There is really no need to go bigger.
I have shot deer at 300 yards and had them drop.

I have also shot black bear {several} and the largest was 575 lbs. It has a much better trajectory than a 45-70 and delivers a ton and a half of energy .

It will be with me and is my go to gun for deer and black bear.

The 240 grain has the wrong expansion for velocity rating. the 265 Hornady is , perfect.

I have one made in 1975. It is an instant killer, plain and simple. Recoil is brisk, but not unmanageable. While much more accurate than one would expect, the .444 Marlins really shine for their power, reliability, and handling qualities. Sort of like a howitzer that swings like a good bird gun.

I bought one of the first new ones that was built a year ago.
It's a beauty, to say the least.
I bought Bear Tooth 300 gr WFLN gas checks to load in Starline brass.
I wish I could have found some of the 265 grs, but they weren't available back then. But I can 300 gr Bear Tooth bullets all day long, and even lighter ones that are hard lead. If you have hand loaded pistol brass, this isn't too much different.
They are right that the .444 does shoot flatter than the .45-70, and equal the power.
There was an article that came out last year that stated a man was out deer hunting bin Grizzly territory, and the bear had charged unexpectedly. The gentleman with the .444 Marlin had the Hornady 265gr flat nose bullets loaded, and stopped that bear at 50 yds. He shot the bear twice, but the first shot stopped it instantly. It acted like it was going to get up, and the second shot was for insurance, probably didn't need it, but what the heck.
So, if you want a big bore with fairly flat trajectory, and power, you should go with a .444 Marlin. Not saying a .45-70 wouldn't be as good, but the .444 is no slouch.
I put a Burris Fullfield II 1.75-5x20mm to go well with the round.

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

I was really close to pulling the trigger on a new marlin 444 about 8 months ago and I let it go for something else. Now that anything new from Marlin is hard to find I’m regretting it

__________________
-Matt

I was shopping hard for a good price on a used 444 before the pandemic. I ended up finding a Supergrade Winchester 70 in .458 Win Mag for only a little more than folks were asking for 444s, so I went for it.

That said, if I find a 444 for the right price I'm sure I'll try to scrounge the money together for it.

If you can, get one!
They're well worth it.
Even the newer ones.


Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

A .444 is on my wish list, too. If the folks at Henry Rifles knew how many of us would buy one, maybe they would introduce it to their line. They already have the frame size for producing the .45-70.

With past ammo buying frenzies, ofter the non-standard guns and ammo are easier to find.

Around 1996 I bought a Winchester big bore in 444. It was JUNK. It spontianiously disassembled itself with the amount of shooting I was doing. It went down the road after Win. supposidly fixed it. In 1998 or 99 Marlin came out with the 444P Outfitter. Straight stock. Ported 18" barrel. I bought one and shot the heck out of it and it never failed. Bought a second one for a spare and its never been needed. I once shot a buck quartering toward me with my hand loaded 310 grain cast bullet. He was dead before he dropped. Found the bullet under the hide behind the left ham. Measured from entry hole to bullet. 37 inches of penetration!. On side shots forget it. That big bullet blows a hole going in and coming out....Causes LOTS of leakage. mine has by now a couple of thousand rounds through it since then and it's still good as new and takes deer every season. The spare? It just there awaiting it's turn one day.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

Fantastic cartridge. Never thought I’d have a use for a triple 4 until I shot one owned by my brother.

Often they are compared to 45-70’s. I own Marlins in both and while their effective use can overlap, they are also different. 444’s are at their best when loaded to near max velocities with 265-300 grain bullets. (This is for the older MG barrels). They definitely shoot flatter than 45-70’s with similar weight bullets. The 45-70 surpasses a 444 when bullet weights get over 350 grains and work well when real heavy weights are desired. Also loading 45-70’s down to around 1300 fps is easy on the shoulder and they’ll still be quite accurate. A 400 grain bullet at that speed is still very effective on big animals.

If i could only keep one, it would be the 444. It’s just that good.

Dan

I hope that you have a sturdy shoulder. Back quite a few years ago a friend had a .458 that he took to Africa. He shot a elephant and I don't remember what else. He insisted that I shoot it. I did, twice, and for a long time when I moved the shoulder, you could feel the calcium deposits that it loosened just grinding away.
I was a lot more recoil sensitive than him. His idea of target practice was to shoot a Model 29 with heavy loads.

__________________
Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!

My buddy would wholeheartedly agree with you!
He has said his .444 has done more bang-flops than anything else he owns.
His is an older one, 1 in 38 twist, microgroove barrel. It isn't supposed to stabilize 300 gr bullets, but it does.
He likes the 265 gr flat nose jacketed Hornady bullets, because they are just that good. He's taken deer, elk, and moose with his. The last elk he got when hunting with it was a bang-flop. He said it hit so hard that the dust it kicked up made it so he couldn't see it. He thought it ran off, and was worried he would have to track it. Well, he didn't have to worry when he got up to it. DRT!
He talked me into getting mine. I have yet to shoot it, but I'm going to test it on wild hogs down here first. Then it'll be ready for anything else.


Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

I bought the .458 knowing that it is a absolute beast, and my intent has always been to load it to 45-70 levels and then work up from there to see how much abuse I want to take.

The sad part is the pandemic shut down our range for months - before I could get there with my M70! It reopened a little while back, so I need to load up some rounds and start testing/playing. I and my wife are both high risk, and the pandemic has been bad enough down here that we are still trying to stay at home as much as possible.

Sorry for the thread derail. The fact is that I love lever guns and would have been just as happy with a 444 if I had found one for a good price. Lever guns have always appealed to me (too many cowboy movies), and I would love to have a couple more of them. My Rossi 92 in 44 Mag needs a big brother...

I sold my Win big bore, still have 5 boxes of factory ammo if your friend needs ammo
240gr bullets

This thread was eye-opening. I always thought the "allure" (if there was any) of the 444 Marlin was because Mack Bolan, The Executioner, used one in his war against the Mafia.

__________________
I always take precautions

I hunted all over the Rockies with Marlin .45/70s but never was excited about the .444. Kind of like why buy a .41 mag when you could get a .44 Mag, and have a lot more choices in loaded ammo and bullets, and greater diameter and bullet weight ?
Fans of the .444 ( and .41 Mag.) will tell you they are so much flatter shooting than the .45/70 ( or .44 Mag), well, slightly, but the appeal of such rounds is diameter and bullet weight, not velocity or a laser like trajectory.

I guided hunters, hunted the dark timber and wilderness camped in Grizzly country around Yellowstone and carried my Marlin with 400 grain Barnes soft points loaded to 1750, that just made more sense to me than the "souped up .44 Magnum" .444 with faster 265 or 300 grain bullets did.

Now there are more choices for heavier, tougher bullets for the .444, but back in the day the Hornady 265 was all there was.
Any stories of the .444 lacking penetration or ruining meat was because guys were using the 240 grain factory loads.

__________________
U. S. Army Veteran

With Marlin rifles the 444 came FiRST. It was later they produced the 45/70. I have both and prefer the 444 for hunting.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

Actually, Marlin was the first company to bring out a .45/70 repeater, in 1881, quite a bit earlier than the 1964 introduction of the .444.
I see you are in South Carolina, so I can see where you find the .444 preferable.

Get out to Montana, Alaska or Wyoming and you might wish you had a .45/70.
Pic of an 1881 Marlin in .45/70:

Attached Images

Marlin-Model-1881-40-60_100849747_344_C6E1DE7DF91616D9.jpg (69.2 KB, 15 views)

__________________
U. S. Army Veteran

So you were only off by 83 years.
When Marlin came out with the 1881, they produced a rugged .45/70 lever repeater 5 years before Winchester came out with the 1886.

I fired a first year production 1881 with double set triggers that an old neighbor had. it was in pristine shape, looked like it was made last year.

__________________
U. S. Army Veteran

Is he a handloader or are you going to load for it? If so, I would look for a newer one with the Ballard rifling in case he wanted to shoot cast bullets to hunt or plink with. Micro Groove barrels will work with cast but it takes a good bit of tweeking the size and alloy to get it to work. Ballard is very forgiving and just as accurate or more so. For jacketed loads the 265 Hornady is a good one but the 270 gr Speer is good as well. There is a brand new one on Gunbroker right now for $749+$35 shipping and no credit card fee. It looks like that is about as good as you are going to do in the gun starved climate we are in now, unfortunately, good luck. Murf

My (ex)brother and I handload. I had the 45-70, he had the 444. The 45-70 beat it at all things. He shot one wild pig (small) with it and I shot a large pig with mine. After guiding on wild pigs for several years in Central Cali, I saw several pigs of all sizes shot with both. My opinion based on experience: The 444 is good for smaller animals (blactail deer, smaller pigs) but the 45-70 can be just as good with handloads. The 45-70 beats it on bigger, tougher game.

I did not read all the comments, but find an older one, and you will be dazzled at what you can do handloading this caliber I think there was just one on the for sale forum of this website. Might still be there. I would buy nothing after Remington took them over

__________________
Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

I was refering to the modern introduction in the 90's..........You knew that.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

What bullet weights was he using?
If he was using 240 gr bullets, then I can see why he would have problems.
They don't penetrate, and pretty much explode on impact when they hit something substantial.
The Hornady 265 gr Jacketed Flat Nose was a sturdy made bullet specifically made for the .444, and the Speer 270 gr Hot Core are both designed for the .444! Anything heavier in bullet weight will work as well as a .45-70.
I have 300 gr Bear Tooth Wide Flat Nose Hard Cast Gas Check bullets that will work as well as the .45-70 does.
My buddy uses Bear Tooth bullets as well, and has never had a problem with taking the largest game in Wyoming, mainly elk, and moose.
Moose soak up ft.-lbs of energy like a heavy weight champ getting hit with body blows. They just stand there, and meander a little bit before expiring.
I can get 300 gr bullets going at 2100 fps or a little more.
But to say the .45-70 is better I think is subjective to what bullets your brother was using.
You made no mention of that.
Just saying.



Hawk

Sent from my REVVLRY+ using Tapatalk

444 vs 45-70
44 mag vs 41 mag
45 Colt vs 44 mag
30-06 vs 270
30-30 vs 35 Rem

All make interesting reading and passionate opinions.

All i can add is..... I’ve never owned a 270. ��

Dan

Yeah, I figured that you meant the reintroduction, but it was 1972, not the 90's.

__________________
U. S. Army Veteran