Mossberg now makes a .410 Shockwave

bushmaster1313 · Jan 14, 2021

The Mossberg Shockwave and its clones are based on an ingenious concept: a firearm which is for all intents and purposes a sawed-off shotgun with a 14" barrel is not a sawed-off shotgun because, never being in a configuration to be fired from the shoulder it was never a shotgun in the first place. And it is not a handgun because being over 26" in overall length it is an "Any Other Weapon." Apparently, there is a letter sent by BATFE to Mossberg confirming this interpretation.

Living in New Jersey I would not want to rely on a BATFE letter when explaining to a State Trooper, Prosecutor, Judge or Jury why I should not got to jail for a long a time for possessing something that looks just like a sawed-off shotgun.

For those brave enough to rely on the BATFE letter, there is also the additional problem that because it is not a shotgun it does not fall into the exemption that takes shotguns with a bore greater than 0.5" outside the definition of a destructive device.

Enter the .410 Shockwave with a bore less than 0.5". Not a sawed-off shotgun per BATFE interpretation, not a handgun because it cannot be concealed and not a destructive device because it has a bore less than 0.5".

Some pretty clever people at Mossberg!

From the Internet:

ISCS Yoda · Jan 14, 2021

If I am not mistaken, the Shockwave models and the similar Remington guns are labeled right on the box as "firearms". They do not fit any other ATF definition except "firearms".

If those guns are legally sold in NJ then you can bet the cops and prosecutors know what they are. Weird rules = weird results.

bushmaster1313 · Jan 14, 2021

ISCS Yoda said:
If I am not mistaken, the Shockwave models and the similar Remington guns are labeled right on the box as "firearms". They do not fit any other ATF definition except "firearms".

If those guns are legally sold in NJ then you can bet the cops and prosecutors know what they are. Weird rules = weird results.

It might not be a sawed off shotgun. But with a bore greater than .5” how is a non-shotgun 12 gauge shockwave not a destructive device?

ISCS Yoda · Jan 14, 2021

It's not a destructive device because it's a "firearm" under the ATF definitions.

CH4 · Jan 14, 2021

I have the Remington version, Tac 14 - best $279 I’ve spent on a “firearm.” I think a 20 gauge and 410 would be worth consideration. Should be interesting to see what the future holds for them. Seatbelt fastened. Eyes open.

shocker · Jan 14, 2021

First of all, don't run around the internet questioning the legality of something that has been deemed legal by the regulating authority. "let sleeping dogs lie" "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"

The Mossberg-ATF letter is available online. In summary, the shockwave falls in a gap between the GCA68 and the NFA.

s&wchad · Jan 14, 2021

I understand 12 and 20 gauge Shockwaves and TAC’s. A short non-NFA shot-not-gun with some serious defensive presence.

Why bother with a 26+” .410, when pistols are available?

Amazing how things go sideways when they attempt to define common sense...
Shockwave/TAC - OK
Street Sweeper - “No sporting purpose” NFA
Arm brace - OK (for now)
Vertical fore-grip on pistol - “No longer a pistol” NFA

Oldfrt · Jan 14, 2021

I have a couple of Charles Daly Honchos in 410, very easy for non firearms people to manage. Almost no recoil with spring return to chamber a round, and with #6 shot more tan enough power ta take care of an intruder in a small house or apartment.

Muss Muggins · Jan 14, 2021

I've had a Mossberg .410 Shockwave for at least a year . . .

gwpercle · Jan 14, 2021

A shockwave In .410 and along with some of the new self defense ammo developed for .410/45 Colt revolvers ... I have always thought it would be a decent home defense weapon for us older folks . Not near the recoil , muzzle flash and muzzle blast of a 12 or 20 gauge .
Lighter weight would be easier to handle ... I would buy one and keep it next to the night stand... in place of that 12 ga. pump that is there now...
Gary

gwpercle · Jan 14, 2021

Muss Muggins said:
I've had a Mossberg .410 Shockwave for at least a year . . .

Do you like it ... pro's / con's ?
Gary

Muss Muggins · Jan 14, 2021

gwpercle said:
Do you like it ... pro's / con's ?
Gary

I like it. But you have to remember I like the S&W Governor as well, so my gun tastes tend to the obscure and obtuse. I have all three Shockwaves, in 12 and 20 gauge, and the .410.

I carried around one of the old Remington Witness Protection shotguns back in the day, and remember thinking it would be much better in 20 gauge.

A bird's head grip shotgun takes a little talent and practice to fire accurately, and you have to remember that they are hallway/close quarters guns at best. The .410 still has a noticeable recoil, especially with high brass loads, but it's very manageable with a good two hand hold. People forget that a .410 is really an expert's shotgun, since it's oft mistaken for what Junior should get for his first gun. Junior is better served by a 20 gauge, in my not all that humble opinion.

They're great bedroom guns. Mine is loaded with the Winchester PDX rounds that I load in my Governor, and that will handle anything coming down my hallway short of a bear, and it will at least make the bear think he's got something better to do somewhere else . . .

inspcalahan · Jan 14, 2021

Add the Henry Lever Action Axe .410 to this list of "firearms". I kinda want one....
Lever Action Axe .410 | Henry Repeating Arms

bushmaster1313 · Jan 14, 2021

ISCS Yoda said:
It's not a destructive device because it's a "firearm" under the ATF definitions.

Since it is not a handgun or a shotgun it might be an "Any Other Weapon"

Muss Muggins · Jan 14, 2021

It’s legally classified as a “firearm.” Mossberg sold a pistol grip only .410 500 that was classified as a “firearm.” Have to be 21 to buy it.

bushmaster1313 said:
Since it is not a handgun or a shotgun it might be an "Any Other Weapon"

BigBoku · Jan 14, 2021

Here’s a very fresh state ruling in regards to this topic.

NY Judge Says Mossberg Shockwave Not A Firearm Under State Law

Muss Muggins · Jan 14, 2021

BigBoku said:
Here’s a very fresh state ruling in regards to this topic.

NY Judge Says Mossberg Shockwave Not A Firearm Under State Law

The headline is misleading. The ruling is exactly what has been stated earlier about the Shockwave. It’s a “firearm” as defined by ATFE, but the manner in which it was charged in NY was incorrect, and NY gun laws don’t consider it. It’ll get fixed . . .

BigBoku · Jan 14, 2021

Muss Muggins said:
The headline is misleading. The ruling is exactly what has been stated earlier about the Shockwave. It’s a “firearm” as defined by ATFE, but the manner in which it was charged in NY was incorrect, and NY gun laws don’t consider it. It’ll get fixed . . .

Agreed which is why I posted it

Muss Muggins · Jan 14, 2021

Nobody knew your interpretation until now. I would have explained that . . .

BigBoku said:
Agreed which is why I posted it

BigBoku · Jan 14, 2021

Muss Muggins said:
Nobody knew your interpretation until now. I would have explained that . . .

I’ll remember that next time Muss

Mossberg now makes a .410 Shockwave

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