LC Smith A1 16 ga
- Thread starter us2
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444 Magnum
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L.C. Smith's sell from $300 to the sky. The book is a vague guide only. If you're talking decent money, you need to know your subject matter before you get hosed. Grade, model, condition, and gauge all play a factor.
Ivan the Butcher
Member
The pricing on American Antique double shotguns has been in free fall since the 2008 recession, but field grade were down before that. People paid big money for the fin hunting machines, but it is a small niche that is buying them now!
LC Smiths are side3lock guns and basically all side locks are very weak at the wrist. They dry out and crack in unseen areas then break "all the sudden"! I don't know where you even find a stock guy to final fit the 95% Boyd stocks!
Ivan
LC Smiths are side3lock guns and basically all side locks are very weak at the wrist. They dry out and crack in unseen areas then break "all the sudden"! I don't know where you even find a stock guy to final fit the 95% Boyd stocks!
Ivan
bigmoose
Member
^^^^^what Ivan The Butcher said. I have repaired a couple of Elsies that were badly cracked at the wrist. If you intend on shooting it, inspect it thoroughly and use light loads if possible.
They only made a total of around 750 grade A1 LC Smiths. That's not very many for a total production.
10 were made in 16ga.
These are pre-1913 LC Smiths. The A1 was only available for about 10 yrs IIRC ,,1890/91 to around 1901.
It should have damascus bbls and ejectors.
The engraving is not at all extensive though some of them have a bit more coverage and different style scroll than others.
Just different engravers doing their work.
Usually a dog on either side plate and a game bird on the trigger guard bow (a Woodcock very often the subject.)
The side plate engraving can leave the dog standing very alone with a few scroll enhancements on the plate. Or quite a bit of extra work to form a 'scene' around the dog will have been added.
The guns were avail w/ straight grip,,half pistol grip,,and full pistol grip stocks.
Checkered grip and forend, Nice figured wood was used, European Walnut.
Value depends on condition of course.
All original with some existing factory finish generally beats a refinished gun no matter who did the work.
Some redone work is Ok if it is 'restoration' and not upgrading just for the sake of trying to make a buck.
Damaged wood or metal repaired and brought back to the level of finish to match the original finish still on the gun would be real restoration.
Repair of things like the ejectors is good if done with the care it deserves.
No ham handed repairs or alterations. They just beat the value into the ground.
The 12ga A1 Grade depending on the condition of course was a $4000+ range collectors gun.
The rare 16ga A1 usually priced at about double from what I've seen.
But that was before the vintage SxS market took a dive.
SxS vintage guns are a bit of a drag on the market of late. So you can likely cut those values by 1/3 for todays reality market.
These are collector/investment gun(s),,not shooters (though they will do fine for that too)
...and right now buying vintage SxS's as an investment isn't a real good path to follow IMO unless they are really priced at the bottom.
Check some recent auctions and sales for the same A1 16ga model (or 12ga for comparison) sold prices.
A blue book won't give you a real time value.
Also be aware that there are many fake LCS A1 grade shotguns out.
Just like PArker, Fox and some others, taking a lower grade starter gun and adding the necessary embellishments to 'make it an A1' or some other Grade is a business with some people.
Even changing serial#'s and other markings to match factory records.
Nothing is beyond their reach as long as a handfull of cash is the reward.
Examine everything carefully and with upmost scrutiny.
Knowing the gun and it's history can put a lot of that nonsense to bed in a hurry. But a high grade gun just placed out for sale,,you should always be wary of.
10 were made in 16ga.
These are pre-1913 LC Smiths. The A1 was only available for about 10 yrs IIRC ,,1890/91 to around 1901.
It should have damascus bbls and ejectors.
The engraving is not at all extensive though some of them have a bit more coverage and different style scroll than others.
Just different engravers doing their work.
Usually a dog on either side plate and a game bird on the trigger guard bow (a Woodcock very often the subject.)
The side plate engraving can leave the dog standing very alone with a few scroll enhancements on the plate. Or quite a bit of extra work to form a 'scene' around the dog will have been added.
The guns were avail w/ straight grip,,half pistol grip,,and full pistol grip stocks.
Checkered grip and forend, Nice figured wood was used, European Walnut.
Value depends on condition of course.
All original with some existing factory finish generally beats a refinished gun no matter who did the work.
Some redone work is Ok if it is 'restoration' and not upgrading just for the sake of trying to make a buck.
Damaged wood or metal repaired and brought back to the level of finish to match the original finish still on the gun would be real restoration.
Repair of things like the ejectors is good if done with the care it deserves.
No ham handed repairs or alterations. They just beat the value into the ground.
The 12ga A1 Grade depending on the condition of course was a $4000+ range collectors gun.
The rare 16ga A1 usually priced at about double from what I've seen.
But that was before the vintage SxS market took a dive.
SxS vintage guns are a bit of a drag on the market of late. So you can likely cut those values by 1/3 for todays reality market.
These are collector/investment gun(s),,not shooters (though they will do fine for that too)
...and right now buying vintage SxS's as an investment isn't a real good path to follow IMO unless they are really priced at the bottom.
Check some recent auctions and sales for the same A1 16ga model (or 12ga for comparison) sold prices.
A blue book won't give you a real time value.
Also be aware that there are many fake LCS A1 grade shotguns out.
Just like PArker, Fox and some others, taking a lower grade starter gun and adding the necessary embellishments to 'make it an A1' or some other Grade is a business with some people.
Even changing serial#'s and other markings to match factory records.
Nothing is beyond their reach as long as a handfull of cash is the reward.
Examine everything carefully and with upmost scrutiny.
Knowing the gun and it's history can put a lot of that nonsense to bed in a hurry. But a high grade gun just placed out for sale,,you should always be wary of.
Thanks for all the input. Many of your comments I suspected but hearing from others is helpful. I am a shooter not a collector I probably don't need that gun. If I had it I would only use it at an annual bird hunt with fa ily and friends. Then I would have to find a new purpose for my sweet sixteen. That little Elsie sure has a sweet swing though !!
I’m a fan of L.C. Smith shotguns and have a couple of field grade feather weights; a 12 gauge and single trigger 20.
You didn’t mention the asking price, so it’s hard to recommend if you should buy it. Condition is everything. A 16 gauge A1 in nice shape sold at Morphy’s about 6 years ago for over $8K.
EXCEPTIONALLY RARE 16 GAUGE L. C. SMITH GRADE A1.
Personally, I wouldn’t hunt with a gun that has Damascus barrels and I’m sure they have short chambers (2-1/2” or 2-9/16”).
You didn’t mention the asking price, so it’s hard to recommend if you should buy it. Condition is everything. A 16 gauge A1 in nice shape sold at Morphy’s about 6 years ago for over $8K.
EXCEPTIONALLY RARE 16 GAUGE L. C. SMITH GRADE A1.
Personally, I wouldn’t hunt with a gun that has Damascus barrels and I’m sure they have short chambers (2-1/2” or 2-9/16”).
Jack Flash
SWCA Member
I'm glad you mentioned that. I was surprised that anyone would even consider shooting a hundred + year old shotgun with Damascus barrels.
A lot of “experts” shoot damascus barrels, but I don’t. Barry Fain wrote the first 3 Blue Book of Gun Values. Steven Fjestad took over, after Barry blow the side of his face off shooting a damascus barreled double.
I would not shoot any damascus shotgun. They could have internal rust not visible to the naked eye and give you one hell of a catastrophic surprise even with light loads. They make wonderful wall hangers though.
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