.25 not big enough

True local .25 story from 50 years back. Fellow comes home drunk and late, sees a car parked in front of his house. Suspects hanky-panky by wife, slips in back door. Just as he gets to the front of the house, the wife's visitor bolts out the front door, off the porch, and jumps in to his car. Drunk husband exits front door, fires one shot from his pocket .25. Bullet goes straight through the car's windshield and straight in to the guy's heart. Dead right there.

Proves nothing, but having a .25 beats having nothing, and more often than not is all you'll need.
 
My friend Chauncey was shot in the head, twice, with a .32acp.
He was then driven around “dead” in the trunk of his car for a while, the dumped in the swamp in Suffolk, VA.
The bad guys drove away, he got up, walked to the nearest house, knocked on the door.
Lady came out, he said “some dudes shot me and stole my car”.
She said “Oh my God! You’ve been shot!!!”
He said, “I dont think you heard me. Some dudes stole my car”
In his defense, its a sweet 1967 Catalina. Still has it.
 
The first homicide I responded to involved a .25. One shot through the center of the bridge of the nose penetrating into the brain. Victim staggered a few feet and fell down. He was taking his last breaths as I walked up to him. Any round can and will kill. As we frequently say, shot placement, shot placement and shot placement. It becomes more critical as you go down in performance.

I won't carry less than a .38 Special/9mm but I don't want to be shot by even a pellet gun.
 
Not that I think either are effective defense rounds, but I think I'd rather have a palm sized gun in .22LR loaded with CCI Stingers than a .25 ACP. I mean, what was the all knowing and wise gun guru JMB thinking when he came up with the .25 automatic?
 
Back in the early 1970's I had to stop at Pittsburgh's #2 police station to pick up a copy of a report. There was a "big mama working girl" being questioned in the beating death of a well known, very elegant pimp. True to his style, he had been found lying alongside an empty gold plated, engraved Baby Browning with ivory stocks and all the empty shell casings. They'd been seen arguing.

When asked why she did it, she grabbed the low neckline of her dress, pulled it down to reveal bloody 44 or 46 Ds and stated: "Honey the mother plucker done shot me!". There was an E.F. Hutton moment of reverent silence long before the commercials, before someone noted the blood and decided they'd better get her to the hospital.

I was told the next day none of the .25's made it to the rib cage. Nol Prossed.

Recalled late: for a couple months afterward, slightly used .25s previously carried as backups could be had for under $20. Sometimes as low as $5.
 
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Puller said:
Not that I think either are effective defense rounds, but I think I'd rather have a palm sized gun in .22LR loaded with CCI Stingers than a .25 ACP. I mean, what was the all knowing and wise gun guru JMB thinking when he came up with the .25 automatic?
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Well, he was trying to make the smallest round that would fit a small pistol primer and have the same sectional density as .22LR.
The Colt 1908 was built around the round, based on his design.
I have a couple of .25 pistols, a Beretta 950 and a Colt junior.
They are cool, but they are not serious defensive pistols.
 
Old cop said:
In 1968 my first shooting was at a grocery store. The victim was standing outside holding a towel to her head and really angry at her boyfriend for shooting her w/a twenty-five. When we got her to the ER the doc said the bullet traveled around the outside of her skull, never penetrating & exiting out the back. He sewed up two small holes, told her to go home and take aspirin for the headache.
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Had an attempted stupicide with a .380 that had a similar path except up and over: right temple to behind left ear. Playing Russian roulette, he racked the slide 3 times and pulled the trigger.
 
The story in the newspaper said the pizza shop owner went after the guy and while trying to wrestle the gun away is when he got shot. So, it sounds as if none of the shots from the .25 were direct hits; probably (just an assumption) being shot while wrestling for a gun the perp just pulled the trigger and none of the hits were, luckily, direct kill shots. I'm just glad they caught this idiot so quickly. He probably got the gun for pocket lint. I had one of those Raven Arms .25 autos years ago. I think I paid $30 for it. It did not shoot as good as a $30 pistol should be expected to shoot! (That was the NEW price, early '80s.)
This does prove, as we all know, no matter how wealthy and quiet a town may be, criminals are everywhere. This criminal is from a very popular neighborhood known for its criminal element. I hope nobody else gets shot by some other junkie or gang-banger wannabe.
Anybody that knows what's going on here in Pittsburgh besides bridges collapsing knows that nothing good is going to come from the strangulation of policing the residents' safety. (Enough said on this Forum.)
 
elpac3 said:
"Back in the day" was on an attempted suicide. Guy shot himself in the the side of the head with a Ruger 10-22 seven times. Gave up after seven rounds and call an ambulance.

Rounds entered the scalp and traveled along the skull exiting at the top of the head. Rounds never penetrated bone. Had some nasty looking holes and powder burns and a splitting headache.

Have had other cases of a .22 entering the skull and running around the inside of the skull three or four laps which resulted in brain injuries and ultimate death.

Shot placement is pretty important
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Seven .22 shots along side his head. The only thing he killed was his hearing on that side.
 
I happen to be quite fond of "Mouse Guns" and own several. While I don't recommend one as a primary carry, they do have their place. This is a gun for those times when you can't carry a gun. ;)

I prefer the .25acp to the .22LR simply because its a centerfire cartridge. We all know rimfires can be finicky about ignition. Even more so with the lower quality ammo that's been put out in the last few years. The .25 is just more reliable.

You also have to change tactics with a .25. Forget center mass. These guns are meant to be used at bad breath distances. Stick the gun right into the BGs face and pull the trigger several times. With a little luck the bullet may go through an eye socket or nasal cavity and straight into the brain. If not, take advantage of the BG being distracted by the blood and pain and run like hell! Remember, the objective here is to survive. It doesn't matter what happens to the BG.
 
I prefer the 4.25 Liliput.

The Menz Liliput is one of the smallest functional firearms ever put into mass production. It was offered in 4.25mm (.17 caliber) in addition to the more popular .25ACP and .32ACP. The 4.25mm cartridge is used generated about 17 foot pounds of muzzle energy – trivial by most pistol standards, but still several times that of the even tinier 2.7mm Kolibri. These pistols were made in the 1920s – some sources say from 1920 to 1927, but what I have found seems to point towards a commercial introduction in 1925.
 
Goldstar225 said:
I won't carry less than a .38 Special/9mm but I don't want to be shot by even a pellet gun.
Click to expand...

You sure don't. I have a Daisy CO2 - 200 BB pistol that I acquired decades ago. I used to shoot it at about 15 feet. I can remember BBs penetrating one side of a tin can at around that range. I remember Pop telling me that BB pistol was potentially lethal and I took Pop's words to heart.
 
I knew two cops killed 23 hours apart, each by a single .25 ACP round.

Joey Thomas took a round just above his vest during a SWAT entry. He and his pals killed the guy, and Joey died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

Detective Joseph C. Thomas, New Orleans Police Department, Louisiana

I didn’t know Chris McCormick until he was dead and I was doing his Public Safety Officers Benefits Fund package. Nice family. The city didn’t supply vests and he was saving up to buy one, but he had kids and bills to pay.

Police Officer Chris D. McCormick, Sr., New Orleans Police Department, Louisiana

I always think of these guys when I hear that dumb “if you shoot anyone with a .25 and they find out about it” line.
 
I grew up with a Crossman BB/pellet gun. Dad bought this for me (meaning us!) when they first came out. It even had the wooden stock, etc. I killed a lot of bears & bad guys with that "shootin' iron"! Anyhow, you pump that thing up to 10 or 15 pumps and you have a very potent non-powder shooting tool! Anything you shoot someone with is gonna give them a bad day, plus give you a chance to get away.. As Golddollar says, (or his pop I should say) every cap gun, BB/pellet gun, .17 caliber, everything shaped like a gun is a potential lethal weapon. Don't point it at anything or anyone.
Still, these junkies need educated. Perhaps their 1st class may be their last, but I really don't care that much. People who steal are huge dregs of society. No respect for any of them. Pizza guy deserves a medal of honor, whatever medals citizens get. Customers could've been hurt, employees, or even just passers by.
 
Rustyt1953 said:
Noisy Cricket.
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Use snake shot, especially if you're shooting .22..Just the right caliber for such unpleasant and annoying things at 1:25 in the morning.

For me...I tell my self I'm going on a safari until I get that *** and can go back to sleep...:D:cool:....I find the lit'l so and so's are usually behind one of the curtains..

Also, I've found that their chirps have nothing to do with humidity.:rolleyes:

WuzzFuzz
 
Hot .25ACP cartdridges are at about 25% bullet mass and muzzle energy of a 9mm, which is clearly way too little to have any kind of significant impact on the outcome of most gunfights. Sure, you might get that super rare lucky shot, but these will be few and far between, and you probably won't get one when it counts.

.25ACP is for that very last line of defense, for the tiny backup gun of your backup gun.
 
Basically, stopping power is a myth. As often said, a handgun is a tool to get you to your rifle. Anyway, back in 80's when I was Training in NY, one case stands out in my memory. Seems in the mid 70's an attractive young State's Attorney was leaving her office on a cold winter night.. Once in the parking lot, she was attacked by a twice convicted rapist. Having a NY pistol permit she drew her Beretta .25 ACP and fired one round left-center chest. The attacker dropped to his knees, holding his chest and crying. No cell phones so the attorney drove to nearest pay phone and reported the incident to the local PD. When the units arrived at the scene, said gentlemen was still on his knees crying for his mommy and repeating "I don' want to die". Upon examination it was noted that the single .25 round had cleared the perps leather jacket and was stopped by a leather biker wallet in is inside pocket. No penetration. no broken ribs. No bleeding. Just a bruise that was treated by the EMTs and taken directly to prison. When the perp heard the shot and felt a impact on his chest, he went into "fugue state"; disoriented and believing he was going to die. Moral of the story is what really works on the street is the eternal question of the Defensive Firearms crowd. I never carry anything smaller than 9 mm, .45 or .357 Mag.
 
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