I've always been fascinated by firearms from the 1920s and 30s, gangster tales, the Motor Bandits, birth of the FBI...

So here are a few from my modest collection of that era...models known to have been used by both the good guys...and the bad.

First the "Heater's "

Colt 1918 Black Army
Colt Model M's (1917 & 1924)
Savage 1917 from 1917

Anyone else want to share their "gats"?

🙂

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And next up are the Roscoe's, all Commercial Models.

S&W 1917 circa 1924
S&W 1905 circa 1920
Colt New Service 45 Colt circa 1923

All of these get shot occasionally, and I LOVE to bring them out for younger shooters.

"Gangster for a Day" (or Junior G-Man) is a lot of fun. 🙂

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Dad was a big fan of the Colt M 1903 in 32 ACP, he had 3 of them and about 12 magazines! The small town he lived in got the bank robbed by The Purple Gang when he was little. It was Still the talk of the town when I visited in 1967!

Ivan

I have a 38 Safety Hammerless first model ca, 1896. A 1902 no change 32-20 ca 1902, a Regulation Police 38 S&W ca, 1921 and a Colt Police Positive Special 32-20 ca. 1919. On the larger side a Winchester 1897 ca. 1904 (sawed off to 18"), and a small mountain of WWI rifles.

Ivan

I would be happy with any Thompson but a 1921 would really excite me! The local Class III dealer has two for sale, they are now marked P.O.R., before that they were $50 grand each!

FWIW: The "Bureau of Investigation" was started in 1908 under Teddy Roosevelt...it later changed its name to the FBI, and Congress authorized them to carry firearms in 1934. So technically the FBI was born in 1908.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

My favorite from this era, an early snubnose M&P, circa 1934 or '35. Whether it was owned by a cop, crook, or citizen remains unknown.

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__________________
SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Outstanding round butt M&P.

Thanks for sharing it.

True but...the Bureau of Investigation was a super cronyism agency that many sought to eliminate due to abuse.

Most credit Hoover (and his press) and his efforts at power and expansion after the death of Frank Nash, 2 FBI Agents, and Police Officers, at the Kansas City Massacre at really birthing the FBI.

That, plus Dillinger and then the Barker Gang and Alvin Karpis cemented the FBI into the national conciousness. Karpis being captured here in New Orleans, really by Gus Winstead (who shot Dillinger) ,but Hoover was given the accolades for his personal arrest in the press. That's according to Karpis' memoir, who lived in Spain until the 1970s (after 34 years in Alcatraz).

What always fascinated me is ALL of this was occurring at the same time, 1933-35.

Machine Gun Kelly, Pretty Boy Floyd, Baby Face Nelson (plus Dillinger, Karpis, et al)..all working at the same moment in history. And all with FBI, state and local officers on the lookout for them.

Not to mention Bonnie and Clyde, even though the FBI refused that manhunt.

Make mine a BAR.

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213th FBINA

Myself, and others, would love to see them.

Pics, Baby, Pics...🙂

Clyde Barrow's weapon of choice.

See: The Infamous Guns of Bonnie and Clyde | MeatEater Hunting

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

It was a great eras for guns and an excellent collection.. Here's my Remington Model 81 and engraved Colt .45 with Boessenecker's Frank Hamer bio. I sent him this picture and the 81 is as close as I could get to Hamer’s Model 8. The Colt is very close to Old Lucky, tho. A most likely factory nickel 1930 Colt New Service .45 Colt with wrong grips. And a 1920 vintage snub 1917 Colt along with a cut down Colt PP .38 with police markings on the butt.

Early colt autos are really some of the most aesthetically pleasing guns out there. Really wish I'd gotten in on them years ago.

I'm not so sure that it's any different today, just different names with people doing the same nasty s***!

Bloods
Crips
MS-13
Sinaloa cartel
Los Zetas
Aryan Brotherhood


Heck, that was off the top of my head. Then I decided to look it up :

This is a fairly current list:

10 Most Dangerous Gangs in The United States - Criminal Data Check - Find Criminal, Arrest, & Court Records Online


© 2019 Criminaldatacheck.com

Names and faces change. Criminal activity continues.

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Come and take it!!

That book is a great read, one of my favorites!

This shortened Colt Police Positive Special is engraved with the name of Lt. Chris Hughes.

Christopher J. Hughes was a Detective Lieutenant with the Chicago Police Dept. From 1915, when the Colt was delivered to Hibbard, Spencer, and Bartlett Co. in Chicago, until he retired in 1944, he was involved in at least five shootings.

He was wounded twice in major gun battles with robbery gangs. Once in 1923 when he and three other officers shot it out with four hi-jackers in a dark alley and again in 1927 in a running gunbattle after the robbery of a Brinks armored car.

He's shown with one of the Thompsons the department bought to even up the arms race with the gangsters.

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My Westernfield 30 is as used by both Clyde Barrow, and purportedly at the St Valentine’s Day massacre.

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Uvidíme se později, aligátore.

Nice grouping. Your "Old Lucky " is especially delightful. I'm equally jealous of the New Service too.

And Boesseneckers book is an outstanding read I agree. I've almost worn the cover off of mine. 🙂

True enough. I recall when I was working alongside a Secret Service agent he boasted that out of the first 50 agents when the Bureau of Investigation was established in 1908, 25 of them came from the ranks of the Secret Service.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

While I will somewhat concede the point...what was different was the introduction of the automobile, and no federal jurisdiction (at least at the beginning).

The country had never seen anything like those "Yeggs".

And the press LOVED it, and told the stories nationwide. There were wholesale callouts of state militias, massive misinformation, journalists and LOTS of local law enforcement on gangsters payrolls, and whole cities (Milwaukee, WI, Cicero, IL, Hot Springs, AR, and others) that functioned as gangster havens. Not to mention that, at least initially, the gangsters had widespread public support due to the unpopularity of banks.

And many of the most famous from time to time collaborated with each other.

So yes, gangs are still with us, but these Motor Bandits were somewhat unique, and during a unique time.

Here's another, not really from Prohibition, (1949 S&W Heavy Duty Transitional) but it fills a spot imo due to the introduction of the 38 Special High Speed, or 38 Special Highway loadings that immediately precede the 357 Magnum. The S&W Heavy Duty, or 38/44 Heavy Duty, was created, in part, to punch through steel auto bodies as the previous 38 Special loads did not.

(Colt went in another direction with the 38 Super, but I haven't nailed a pre war one of those down yet. )

C'mon guys...I KNOW a couple of you have Registered Magnums, Thompsons, and this site is perhaps the best on Earth for pre war revolver collections...nobody else throwing down a Roscoe pic? Pre war LEO guns? Grandpa's Depression Era store protection?

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Thanks all for sharing, some great pics and information a out a very interesting period in our history.

image.jpgHere are some good books that cover a lot of that era

Thanks, that's a couple I haven't read.

Many don't realize how back then, just like smugglers today, the southern border was used to smuggle in booze in violation of the Volstead Act. There were LOTS of smugglers and a lot of booze.

The Texas Rangers, Prohibition Agents, and US Marshals often were in vicious gunfights during this period all along the Rio Grande, primarily with smugglers.

IIRC, this is perhaps when El Paso earned the name "Hell Paso"?

image.jpgAnother one

Where is the Thompson Submachinegun and the Browning Automatic Rifle? :-)

close but no cigar.. 1948ish...
but it's what I have... that sorta fits

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I'd rather have a Colt Monitor. We had one in the vault, but never got to shoot it.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

Okay, I have fired numerous 1921 and 1928 Thompsons, but never video'ed it. Here is a short vid of me right before retirement with a M1A1 version.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

A rather ordinary 6" M&P, circa 1930 or '31. At that time, this wouldn't have been an atypical uniformed peace officer's sidearm, although the condition of this example seems to preclude its having been so employed.

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__________________
SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Impressive control Sir. And it's not that easy to do.

My agency sold off multiple weapons in 1986, one of which was a Thompson 1928. Us SWAT guys got the Chief to let us "familiarize " ourselves with a couple of items, or course the Thompson was top of the list. We had to pay for the ammo ourselves as 45 acp wasn't a budgeted caliber. One of my fondest firearms experiences.

That 1000 round case didn't last long. We should have bought three.

Thanks for sharing the vid.

I have a few that date from the Prohibition era - June 17, 1920 to December 5, 1933.

John

This Colt Police Positive Special in .38 special dates from 1922.


This S&W M&P in .38 special dates from April, 1923.


This S&W .32 Safety Hammerless was shipped in 1921.


An example of "The iron finger" - the very ergonomic Remington - UMC Model 51 from 1924.


This German pocket pistol, a Mauser 1910/14 in .25 ACP, dates from 1921.


This Colt Model 1903, made in 1918, was around during prohibition.


I'm betting that plenty of these little rascals were around during prohibition!


"The gun that made the 20s roar" - this Thompson SMG, a Model of 1928, belongs to a good friend of mine.

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

That is so cool!

You never disappoint Sir.

Thanks for sharing these.

I've had a hankering for a Colt PP Target in 22 of late due to reading about one very ballsy jeweler who engaged Baby Face Nelson with same during the bank robbery that preceded the botched Little Bohemia raid.

Nelson was reliably reported to have been seriously planning on returning to murder the jeweler, but unfortunately for Nelson (and 2 FBI Agents he killed) the FBI found him first.

Lucky jeweler, Nelson was a vicious and vindictive killer who was known to have murdered on a grudge or insult. Dillinger and Karpis grew to be very wary in their dealings with him.

To the OP:
Really like the first shot of the Black Army
in the EPS leather. The “Austin” model was
their nod to the Brill holster of early 1900’s.
Great post!

When you get paid to shoot several thousand rounds a year through Thompsons, every year for twenty years, you do develop some technique.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

See: GUNS Magazine The Guns Of John Dillinger - GUNS Magazine

And also: John Dillinger'''s pistol on display in Dayton

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Great posts here with same great guns.

I have a 1924 .32 RP, 1930 38/44 HD, .32 Colt Pocket Auto from 1915, 2 1917 Colts that have really been around , a 1917 S&W, a Colt Police Positive in .38 S&W, 1913 M&P 32/20, 1909 Colt Néw Service .45 LC.
1906 .38 M&P 6”barrel. Plus 1897 Winchester Brushgun from 1901an 1894 and 1892 Winchester SRC and a 1907 .351 SLR Made in 1909.

These guns were all around in time for the Prohibition era. Unfortunately the only one the has a verifiable story is the 1909 New Service which was carried during the campaign against Pancho Via.

A few of these pieces are in very nice condition but most are just average. Since both bootleggers and lawmen carried stuff like this stuff I often wonder where some of the well worn stuff was during this time.

As Prohibition ended the Great Depression worsened and banks became a target for the Depression era desperados. Guns like this would have gone into action again when the lawmen and the local posse though that Dillinger or Bonnie and might show up.

Thank you.

Here's a couple more.

With some vintage leather for the Colt Model M in 380 too.

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It is very timely that you both mentioned this book. I bought it years ago but just started reading it last weekend. I am about halfway through it. So far, so good.
Larry

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Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

My Remington M51 .380, from c.1919.
Stuff near it was my GGF's.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

A copper's rod used by the Philly PD.

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this was a awesome post

My two from the "era". Hand Ejectors, first a 1913 6" 38spl, the second a 1923 6" 44spl. The 44 was a single order shipped to a store in Indianapolis, right in the midst of the midwest gang territories, so likely went to a businessman or other person of means.

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Heavily armed old man.

Your thoughts about the 44 going to a "person of means" may very well be true.

A number of the Motor Bandits were prolific kidnappers as well.

The Barker/Karpis gang and the Hamm Brewery Case (their 2nd high profile kidnapping) Machine Gun Kelly in Oklahoma...the fledgling FBI was involved in both and both were national stories of the day. The Hamm Brewery job was especially interesting in that the Hamm's had connections with bootleggers and the Roosevelt Administration both. That was compounded by initial non cooperation with the FBI once the ransom was paid ($300,00 IIRC). The FBI, despite some glaring early errors, was doing the best they could, while also rapidly evolving.

When they weren't being thwarted by crooked cops on the inside that is. Especially in Milwaukee and Minneapolis.

LOTS of banks and other businesses started to armor up. A well known jeweler, grocery store owner, etc , many folks were "on the lookout ".

Thanks for sharing your models.

I have a 1911 “Black Army” made by Colt in 1918.

Bonnie and Clyde had 7 of them in their car when they were killed and if you’re a real optimist, this was one of them:

Not as much Minneapolis as St. Paul. Today folks will say you date Minneapolis but marry St Paul. I have my doubts as it’s the heart of “Minnesota Nice” (a nice way of saying “passive aggressive”), but it was certainly the case from 1900 to 1935 if you were a mobster.

From 1900 when Detective John O’Conner became Chief of Police until 1920 when he retired he implemented and ran what was called the “Layover Agreement”. Under that unofficial agreement the St Paul Police department harbored and protected fugitives provided they:
- checked in with the police department on arrival at the Savoy Hotel in downtown St Paul;
- paid fees (i.e. bribes) to the police department and various city officials; and
- committed no serious crimes in St Paul.

It was remarkably corrupt but also remarkably effective at keeping St Paul comparatively crime free. It also made it a haven for prohibition era criminal gangs engaged in boot legging, and in the subsequent bank robbing and kid napping activities post prohibition.

The Layover Agreement continued into the 1930s while bootlegging gave way to bank robberies and kid napping as prohibition came to an end. Tom Brown became St Paul Police Chief in 1930, due to influence peddling by mobster Leon Gleckman. In exchange for the Chief of Police job, Brown agreed to protect Gleckman’s criminal enterprises and associates when in St Paul.

In the early 1930s federal agents started trying to wipe out the gangs in St Paul, without of course the St Paul Police department’s cooperation because they were still honoring the Layover Agreement and making lots of money from it.

It fell apart in 1935 when Brown was given a tip about the whereabouts of the Barker-Karpis gang and, as he was getting bribes from them for protection, sat on it long enough to warn the gang and let them get out of town.

Questions about how the gang was tipped off and escaped (finally) led to an anti corruption movement by St Paul citizens. That resulted in a new anti-corruption city administration and the firing of Brown and most of the officers on the St Paul Police force. That finally ended the Layover Agreement era after 35 years.

See: Al Capone's Personal Guns Up For Auction | An Official Journal Of The NRA

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

These shipped from 1935 to 1939. The bottom two just went to stores. The two in the middle went to the Sheriff of Stillwater County, MT and the Mansfield, OH P.D. The nickel shipped to the owner of a coal mine in eastern Kentucky.

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That's a fabulous group of early M&P snubnoses! I do have a question regarding the one with the walnut stocks - are they numbered to the gun?

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"