Does anyone have any live for the KelTec Sub 2000? I’ve been hankering for a 9mm carbine. I found the Ruger to be a little heavy and the Henry Homesteader is not affordable for me at this time. I just picked up a KelTec Sub 2000 Multi Mag on trade. Does anyone else have one? What are your impressions?

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otis

I had one for a number of years, but as a lefty shooter I could never mitigate the hot powder blowing back into my face. I had a somewhat unusual hard chromed S&W 59 mag compatible model. I did have fun getting some aftermarket parts for it, but in the end it just wasn't fun to shoot and sight adjustments were a big PITA.

In the PPC hierarchy, they are above the Hi-Point carbine, but nothing else.

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Psalm 27:2

Since the S&W FPC arrived the price for a new Keltec has fallen by 100-200. The plastic trigger group of the Keltec isn't popular and aftermarket parts to semi-improve it make the price of an improved Keltech close to an FPC.

Considering the price of a FPC and it being a major step-up from the Keltec in several critical ways, Keltec's popularity has seriously declined.

I have a friend that works at a LGS. He loves them and is the SUB 2000 salesman of the year. He gets fair or better carbine accuracy by firing 50-100 rounds a week. Folded in his small pack it goes everywhere.

They are only in 9mm or 40 S&W, I don't do those rounds anymore. So all my lever PCC's are in Cowboy cartridges, 357, 44 Special and 45 Colt. My Simiauto PCC's are in 45 ACP and 30 M-1. Not really a fan little plastic guns.

Ivan

I have a Ruger standard model 9mm carbine, bought for a very reasonable price on sale from Rural King. It's a bit heavy, seems to be very high quality and a little overbuilt for the 9mm round. Stock is very strong synthetic, not cheap plastic. It should last a couple of lifetimes. A best buy among 9mm PCCs in my opinion.

I've owned a Glock-version Sub-2000 Gen 1 for 20 years, and also had a Gen 2 and later sold it. Fired several hundred rounds out of them.

Honestly, it's light-duty. The latch mechanism for the folding action is polymer. It's not rare to see them cracked under varying levels of use/abuse. Never happened to me, but after enough reports, I save the gun for emergency use only.

It's neither easy to operate nor fun to shoot. The "iron" sights are set rather low considering the straight-line stock/recoil spring tube, and acquiring a proper stock weld takes work. And once you do, you get whacked every shot as the steel recoil tube is right on your cheekbone, not under it.

The controls, especially the cocking handle, are difficult to operate and in an inconvenient position. The crossbolt safety works opposite of every other crossbolt safety.

The front sight is light duty and difficult to adjust on the Gen 1; on the Gen 2 it's merely wiggly (un-solid).

Mounting a RDS on this firearm is an aftermarket Rube Goldberg style affair which also defeats the purpose of the carbine as being lightweight, compact and simple. Maintaining zero with any of the RDS mounting options is crop shoot.

Recoil is substantial for a 9mm, since it is straight blowback and a light weight firearm with a nice hard checkered polymer buttstock. Also, do not entertain the thought of ever completely disassembling this firearm. It is a collection of screws and small wound springs and other small miserable components that you will regret trying to re-assemble.

Having said all that, it is reliable. Never had any kind of a malfunction with any 9mm ammo.

I have a PC Carbine - which is not without it's own set of Ruger-level fail - but I shoot that a heck of lot more often, and I think it's the better choice if you don't require lightweight.

The Sub-2000 has it's share of fanboys who mostly are into "cool gadgets" and spend an equivalent sum of the purchase price in various aftermarket accessories, the end result being no more capable than the stock original. It's like buying a Mini-14, and a bunch of aftermarket items, and when you are all said and done, for the same money you could have purchased a more capable AR and a whole lotta ammo.

Checked prices on GB. About $459 for the Keltec and $549 for the Ruger. Buying the Keltec to save $100 as the saying goes would be penny wise and pound foolish. If you bought the Keltec and later wanted to sell it who would give you anything close to your money back?

I like the KelTec for its compact size and lightness, and the folding feature is kinda neato. The "iron" sights on it are virtually unusable, an optic of some kind is nearly mandated. I put a red dot sight on it using a 45 degree side mount so that it will still fold. An alternative would be a quick-detach sight mount, or just leave it unfolded - it's still very compact either way.

I also have the Ruger PCC which by comparison to the KelTec feels heavy and solid, which has its own appeal. Both are set up for Glock mags, but the KelTec can also be had in S&W M&P or Sig flavor, and even in .40 S&W.

I'm left eye dominant so I shoot long guns left handed. As I have it set up with the 45 degree red dot mount, it actually works pretty well left handed. Canting the gun 45 degrees to the right points the ejection port downward, away from my face. It's not at all uncomfortable or unnatural to hold it that way, just different. Bonus for reloaders - the brass falls more at your feet rather than being flung away.

I also have the stock adjusted for maximum length of pull and a Missouri Tactical recoil pad added, which moves the ejection port even further away from my face. The recoil pad is designed specifically for the Sub2000 so it just snaps right on, and is notched at the top so that it doesn't interfere with folding the gun.

I do have to say the trigger is pretty terrible. There are spring kits available but I haven't gotten around to trying one yet.

...the Kel tec and a few that I don't. I am a real CARBINE NUT. It was maybe the first 9mm carbine available that was designed for consumers and and I actually coughed up for new one. I've shot the dickens out of it and it's an extremely fun gun. It's light, compact and handy. Simple in design and shoots well. The folding design is ingenious and makes it ultimately portable to backpack or whatever. When I go to the range I may have a rifle or two in cases but my Kel tec is folded up in my range bag.

Now the bad points. You really have to work to get your head in a position to see well through the sights. If you put an optic that folds out of the way it's really expensive (unless they've come up with something new) The phoney plastic nut keeps coming loose, I've a mind to tack it down with something. I ended up getting a Ruger which has it's own very good points, and I consider the Kel tec to be a 'skeleton gun' in comparison. The last problem is a big one. It pulls my beard hair that catches in some cracks.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I see several NIB Sub2000s on GB with Buy-Now prices under $400. Kel-Tec also has a $100 rebate on the Sub2000 good through March 1, 2024. SUB2000 $100 Rebate Promotion - KelTec That puts the base price for a Sub2000 under $300. Of course if you go through GB, there will be taxes, shipping and FFL fees added for either gun.

The Sub 2000 was always at least $150 overpriced for what it is. In fact, most PCCs are stupid overpriced. The perfect example of this is the price of AR based 9mm carbines. With the exception of the radial delayed blowback guns, I cannot see where the $800+ cost comes from, especially when I am getting emails twice a week showing 5.56 NATO ARs for sale at $349.

I own a Hi Point 995. Low capacity and execrable trigger are features, but mine will shoot 2" groups at 50 yards with a red dot and it cost me less than $200.

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Release the Kraken

If you have to have a folder, it looks to me like the S&W is the way to go. I have shot a few Sub2000's, and was never really impressed, though its compact folding design made it a great pack / stow away gun.

Otherwise I might take a real close look at the Beretta CX4 Storm 9mm carbine. Very lightweight and compact, with an almost semi-bull pup design. Feature rich and reliable. Soft shooting and accurate. And importantly, unlike a lot of 9mm carbines, it is very ergonomic, and just feels great in the hands. I have about a case and a half thru mine so far, with no issues. The kicker is just this week, I have noticed several retailers have them marked down to five hundred and change. A lot of gun for the money.

Larry

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... are very reliable for me and I'll bet that the Beretta Storm PCC would be reliable.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

The best price I've seen with a rebate comes out to a bit over $300. That means dealers get them for less. So what ever a buyer pays if he decides to trade his used one in at a gun shop or show he is probably going to get an offer of about $150 or so.

I despise every ugly thing keltec makes.....

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S&W Accumulator

Here in Central Florida, George Kellgren and Kel-Tec are a firearms institution. Kel-Tec firearms are extremely popular, very reliable, and reasonably priced. My son manages several Florida gun stores, and they sell a bunch of K-T guns and he says that their customer service is outstanding. The attached photo is a Kel-Tec display wall that is under construction at one of my son's gun stores (sponsored by Kel-Tec). Kel-Tec recently acquired a facility in Wyoming to augment their Cocoa design and manufacturing plant. Regarding your Sub2000...read this 2022 excerpt from the BCSO. They obviously feel that the Sub2000 is a dependable PCC. Many of the Deputies that we see at our local schools have one strapped across their chest.

"COCOA, FL, August 12, 2022 – The Brevard County Sheriff’s office has ordered 42 KelTec SUB2000 rifles as part of the new uniform and level of preparedness for School Resource Deputies. These SUB2000 rifles will meet the needs of the new School Resource Deputy uniforms...". Enjoy!

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Don't trade it in. I know I'll never get what I paid for mine when they were new and hard to find.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I'm not criticizing Keltec as I know nothing about them, but based on statements like the above, it seems it would make good sense to just spend more and get a Colt. That way you should have reliability, accuracy, and resale value should you ever want to trade or sell - you'll have something desirable to many rather than just a few.

KelTec. Love 'em or hate 'em. I happen to like them and have several - PMR30 (2), PF9, P11, P40, Sub2000 Gen 2, P3AT, P32. All have been reliable. I do prefer other handguns for EDC.

Made some minor mods to the Sub2000 Glock version. Recoil pad, tube cover, bolt handle wrap, etc. Buying today, I would probably get the Ruger. The Sub2000 meets my needs for a lightweight, foldable, reasonably accurate 9mm PCC.

I've only shot one once. The small size makes it hard to "get down" on the rifle and use the sights properly.

I think they are neat, shot one with the rubber slip on butt pad ("recoil" would be an exaggeration) and stock tube cushion and it works well. Much easier to make accurate shots than with a handgun and the magazine interchangeability with the M & P, Glock, etc. is a plus.

Not a heavy duty gun but I think a bargain at current prices (saw one for $299 after rebate).

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

What about the ugly things that S&W makes?

I love mine. It's a Glock 9mm and fun to shoot. Bought it for fun. Had a guy walk up to me at a gun show who had one. He asked if I knew how to fold it and handed it to me with a magazine in it and the action closed.
After making sure the mag and gun was empty, I showed him a couple of times. I thought, how much does a Glock 9mm cost? Never regretted buying it, but it is not one of my go-to guns. It comes along once or twice a year maybe.

People like ugly these days.

I have had one for a few years and have shot about 500 rounds. No hickups. Very accurate and fun to shoot. I keep it in a backpack in the trunk. I have the multi mag version and use the S&W mags.
I did some of the MCargo upgrades to add metal parts. And a cheek pad and buffer. Spent about $100 bucks, but only paid $300 for it.

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I researched the snot out of the KelTec, Smith and Ruger. I went with the Ruger. Got the one with the magpul Backpacker stock. I did NOT want this gun with anything buy open sights and the RUger OTB fit the bill.

The Keltec was exactly why I expected it to be. I did like it but what put it out of the runnning was the issue of lining up the sights. I had to use an incredibly hard cheek weld to line up the sights to the point of being uncomfortable. Problem could not be solved. Kel Tec out.
As far as the Smith, it was CLOSE between it and the Ruger. for the Smoth to meet my standards, I would have to getn an extension picatinny rail so I could mount the rear sight close enough to be useable and would have to mount another rail for the front sight. The rails and sights would have added an additional $125. But I really liked the pistol grip of the Smoth as well as the magazine interchangeability with my M&P.
I bought the RUger because I had $800 burning a hole in my pocket that I won at a poker game, otherwist I would still be dithering about what to buy. I still like the Smith with the modifications set forth above, and hell, If I win again I just might pull the trigger on the Smith.
As it is now, the Ruger is a remarkable stout little gin and the sights work for me.

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Forum consigliere

My friend had a KelTec Sub 9. It was like the 2000, but all metal.

When the broker came to buy his/her collection, that was one of a few she held on to.

M-carbo makes a mod for that, but in the end...mine was re-homed.
After the both new/old Rugers, and various AR-pattern PCC's...I setteled
on the Extar9. The ONLY thing I feel it needs is a set of bone-stock AR15 fire-control parts. The OEM parts are plastic, and I've seen an example where they'd worn and caused doubling. Not good....

Obviously, we're now in a brace-less environ. So, you have to be willing to settle for a cheekweld on the extension tube. However, the recoil impulse is so light, this is actually workable.

The Kel-Tec is a good gun.

Until it’s not.

I opted for the standard model for $559.00 on sale at Rural King . I also wanted to use iron sights only on this compact carbine and the Ruger comes with quality steel sights mounted on the barrel. Came with an adapter for Glock magazines at no extra charge. I have several Glock mags and any double stack 9mm mags will work including the 10 rd model 26 mag if you like a compact rifle. The Ruger is made to last out of high quality material. Rifle magazine #323, 7-2022, read what Brian Pearce had to say about the Ruger in his review. Convinced me to buy one

Compact , reliable, but not very accurate for a carbine. Mine has not been shot in years. Every time I think of selling it, I know I won't get much out of it and that I will probably regret it so for now she stays.

I have been a longtime Sub 2k owner myself. Echo the many mostly negative comments of others… It is a gun that is a mix of great engineering with lousy performance when used. However, it certainly has sold well.

Two biggest gripes:
(1)The blowback is uncomfortable in the best of times, but come winter time, the cold buffer tube is miserable. Truly a Florida gun.
(2) I have a Glock 17 magazine model with a magazine catch that bumbles magazine lock-in fairly regularly. It takes a hammer strike to the base of the magazine to lock in. While disassembling and fiddling with the mag catch might fix this, I changed my mind when I looked at the exploded diagram of the trigger and grip.

We are blessed to have the great variety of firearms, cars and other options we enjoy in the the USA. My recommendation to scratch the carbine itch is the FM-9 or similar AR pattern carbine, which are nearly as small/svelte, have way better ergonomics and cost only slightly more than the $300 you will likely pour into a Sub2k to make usable.

...but what exactly is an FPC???

Update: Ah, got it. S&Ws model carbine. Does it stand for Full Sized Pistol Carbine?

PS: And you are right, the FTP has a VERY good price compared to the Kel Tec. Kel tec could maybe breath more life into theirs if they made it more rugged.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I tried to like the Sub 2000, and went to buy it but, but when I held it, it exuded cheap and went back on the store rack. As mentioned you can add aftermarket features, but that brings it up to the price of its sturdier out of box competitors. Do yourself a favor and comparison shop. As always, your money your choice. I know some serious shooters and LEO's who have them for portable emergency back up guns, and tell me that a carbine is better than a pistol. Not part of any SWAT or SEAL teams, a J frame does that for me.

FPC: Folding Pistol Carbine

I went the S&W FPC route. Mine has ran 100%. I've got mag interchangeability with my Compact 9mm 2.0 Pistol. And it folds with my optic attached & has 2 extras mags in the stock if I want. It also fits in a nice travel backpack with my lap top.

It makes a great road trip gun (where legal).

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Watch & Pray

Sub 2000 in 40 S&W with M&P magazines... Mine is very accurate and has been 100% reliable. Fun at the range.

With a SIG Romeo5 mounted it still is compact enough to fit folded in a leather briefcase or one of my smaller rectangular (as in AR pistol) cases.

The combination of the longer barrel and my 40 S&W reloads makes for a powerful defensive combination at 25-50 yards or so: anything shorter than that there would have to be multiple threats before I would feel underguned.

Cheers!

P.S. Don't know if the current rebate extends to the 40 S&W models, but for around $300 these in 9mm (I'd go with the GLOCK mag option) are a bargain, IMHO. I have the Ruger (scoped) in 9mm and it is a totally different application for me.

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Sit Reloader Sentiret

I own quality wrenches, pliers, and screwdrivers . . . but I keep a few cheaper ones around because, well, I use them for different things and keep them in different places. I've always thought it a good idea to have what I need when and where I need it.

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Qui plantavit curabit

wow pertinent. My friend from Md called about one yesterday. Asking for my feelings. I just told him got plenty ammo? He said a full kitty litter pail full. Told him they would need it. Talked to him today...He and his wife wore out 300 rounds. He said his wife likes it and that is who he bought it for...for a home protection piece. Not my cuppa tea...not my money either. Probably a fun gun though

Have a 9mm and a 40. Inexpensive, reliable, accurate and fold up small. They are not comfortable to shoot, and would not spend much modifying one into what it isn't.

And they both take Glock mags. Good legal, inexpensive, and compact travel guns that can use same ammo supply as accompanying pistol.

Typical grist for a forum like this where these things are chewed over and spit out just for something to do. Idle chit-chat. Something to talk about. As such, perspective starts to take a beating in these threads, IMO.

Fact is, a lot of folks just like to have a metaphorical dog to kick around for fun.
Not too many firearms out there where no matter how many people like it for whatever reason that it's not hard to find something better, even if it's not a fair comparison.

Good example - the Sten gun the Brits produced en masse as an expedient in WWII - not particularly accurate, prone to jamming (because of hastily pounded out mags for the most part) and its propensity to occasionally keep firing until the mag ran dry whether you wanted it to or not. But it had its' place, filled a need, and could easily be derided since there were obviously more accurate and reliable offerings at the time. But that were not available to all. But not in time. But not at the price.

No disputing there are better options out there than the Sub2000. Depending on what you want from it and what you expect to do with it, there are also likely better options out there than a Registered Magnum . . . but to be fair, the OP did present it as asking for advice, anecdotes, and opinion . . . perspective . . .

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Qui plantavit curabit

I found the Kel-Tec concept intriguing... the execution questionable and the thought of buying Gluck anything abhorrent... so I am PCC free at this point... I have looked at Mech-Tech conversions... for decades, just can't do it...

The front has a Warthog that says "Go Ugly, Go Early". The back has the GAU-8 Avenger with the tag, "Ugly Stick". I suppose that I'm an ugly fan.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

But I got my Kel Tec set up for Glock magazines due to availability. The 33 round job is real kick.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

...but to someone who hasn't had the experience and ask, I'm glad to share mine.

I always ask people what their experiences are with a car before I buy one. It doesn't do any good. The one I get too often runs me into the poorhouse. "Well, they changed it in the middle of the model year....."

(The worst was the Mercury Topaz. It wouldn't stay in line and chewed tires up for breakfast. I had asked at least half a dozen people their opinions before I bought it and it was all positive.)

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I had a 9mm and 40SW. Fun to shoot and went through LOTS of ammo real fast. Cheek weld was horrible, and I eventually sold both to fund other projects.

Before we all turned PC (and got old) ‘Go Ugly Early’ was an often heard and used saying.
Still thinking about a 9mm Carbine, leaning toward the Ruger.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I came close to purchasing a Kel-tec a few years ago. I just wasn't happy with the overall function of the Kel-Tec. I recently purchased a S&W FPC. Extremely reliable and accurate. No failure to feed, and with a suppressor and Remington Suppressor ammunition it is great fun. It is more expensive, but to me it is worth the price.

The KEL-TECH can be made into a good reliable PCC with after-market parts from M-CARBO, but by the time you buy the parts to make it into a good PCC you could just buy an AR PCC from Aero Precision for the same money. If you want a great front sight, get one from Red Lion, their front sight is what KEL-TECH should have put on the gun in the first place. MC

I fired one belonging to my Adult son's friend. I have a long beard and that reciprocating bolt just wants to grab it. The thing ran okay with Glock Magazines but they look and feel less than sturdy or substantial, in fact, the thing is really pretty cheesy. That having been said, it was fun to try it out and at least it runs. Which is more than I can say for my Ruger PCC with Glock factory Magazines. I own a lot of Rugers, I just think this thing is a lemon, it happens. I bought the early one released right after the end of lockdowns.