Well, found something else to spend money on. Recently got in on a drop from Buccaneer Knives on some SAP’s made by Fosters. This is my first one but I could see myself picking up one of his small Blackjacks. This one is around 7.5 inches and about 10 ounces of lead. These things pack a wallop! Who else collects these?

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Get off my lawn!

I carried a blackjack for years and it sits in a drawer now w/the other stuff from my career.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Unfortunately, in my state we can open carry a firearm without a permit and conceal carry with a permit, but we'd be guilty of carrying a concealed weapon (no different than if we had an illegally concealed firearm) AND guilt of intent to sell or distribute for carrying a SAP’s, blackjacks, or the like.

According to the explict text of the law, the mere possession of even just one blackjack shall be "prima facie evidence" of the "intent to sell, barter, give, or furnish" a blackjack.

I'm glad that it appears that GA isn't as backwards.

I keep a 1960s era military "billy club" in my bedroom. That's the whole club collection.

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Come and take it!!

Many states allow the ownership/ collecting of them but some don’t allow carry. It’s one of those laws like switchblades that need to be updated.

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Get off my lawn!

I understand blackjacks and saps but what is a carnie? Are you carrying a toothless redneck who's good at guessing peoples weight?

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The best I can with what I got

Basically another name for a Blackjack but carried by the Carnies to handle out of control patrons. There are a lot of different names for them.

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Get off my lawn!

My maternal grandpa was sort of a bouncer/doorman in a questionable legality combination bar and gambling den back in the 1940s-50s. He had a reputation for being a mean and nasty *** you didn't fool with, but I never saw him in action. He always carried a blackjack at all times and knew how to use it. No idea what happened to it after he died. I would have liked to have had it.

Papaw was a Illinois State Police Lt. in the 30's & 40's. He taught me how to use it when I was a kid. I got his blackjack after his death.

He could not emphasize enough NEVER to hit anyone in the head with it as it could easily kill them.

He said to hit the collar bone, shoulder, elbow, wrist, knee, hip to take the fight out of the perp with one or two hits.

He did hit a guy in the jaw/mouth once and I guess the guy got a broken jaw and was missing several teeth.

Unfortunately, the blackjack was lost in a tragic boating accident.

Ive still got the midget that I carried in patrol.It was quite the deterent in many situations and was always there if it was needed.

I think you meant "little person". Let's be politically correct!

I've got a few blackjacks and saps made by Scott Foster. The guy is a real artist.



I also have a few hand-cobbled saps and billy clubs.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

The topic came up in casual conversation the other day. I was talking with a bunch of my peers and said something about a "sap".
Nobody knew what I was talking about, so I had to describe one to them.
None of them had ever seen or even heard of such a thing...

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Some of my stuff....including this pair of "SAP" gloves which I had never seen before I got these!!

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

My maternal grandfather, who died before I was born, walked a beat for the Chicago PD in the 1930s-1950s. I inherited his blackjack. This has definitely got a "broken in" look. You would easily kill somebody with one crack on the head. The head is really heavy lead.

A guy on another forum said he carried a guardrail nut on a loop of 550 cord. As he put it, "It ain't whizzbang tactical, but one shot in the grape and it's coloring books for Christmas."

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The best I can with what I got

I own numerous blackjacks and saps, the majority of which were made by the Foster brothers. Their products are top shelf stuff! I mean TOP shelf. The primary way to purchase their impact devices is via "drops" on their FB page. Scott makes the blackjacks and Todd makes the saps. There are several other makers out there, many of which are very good, but IMHO the Foster brothers are the standard by which all other contemporary makers are measured.

diyj98,not so much in the 70s but you are quite correct because in today's woke society as we know not only would and is the tool abhorred but the company that makes and heaven forbid named it would punished by those more enlightened than us... as Dirty Harry said legends in their own minds.

I carried these over the span of my career as a LEO. I also had a pair of Sap Gloves that were part of my daily uniform:

When I started in 1969 a Sap was part of the uniform. I've still got several, including a rubber night stick with a lead rod in the middle of it. One tap with that one and the fight was usually over.

Scott Foster makes some with a heavy nut attached to a leather strap. Would definitely do the job.

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Get off my lawn!

I’ve read that the police uniforms had a special pocket for the SAP and that pocket only disappeared a few years ago even though most departments got away from the SAPS in the early 80’s.

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Get off my lawn!

One of the favorite prison weapons is "soap in a sock" or "lock in a sock." A bar of soap in a sock can hurt you or break your face pretty good. A lock in a sock can kill you.

My grandfather told me about his sisters using a doorknob in a stocking as a personal protection devise, back in the 1920's.

Ivan

Here’s some of mine. The bottom one is a Smith & Wesson B96M. The black jack on top is a Foster. The carny jack was made for me by Dan Dukicin, featuring a multicolored braided wrist strap. I also have several other convoys, coin purses, cudgels, bludgeons and slungshots.

Vintage saps from bucheimer, S&W and JayPee have become quite collectible and harder to find. Used to be able to buy them off the bay for under $50 all day long. Not anymore.

If you like such things, there is an excellent ebook entitled “Saps, blackjacks and slungshots, a history of forgotten weapons” by author Robert Escobar, a fascinating read about the obscure history of these items.

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Wrap it in masking tape and it is even less identifiable.

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Front sight and squeeze

LOL, I am SO stealing that!

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Ain't This Fun Though?

Brauer Bros. made saps as well. I knew a few that carried them. I carried a night stick as it was much more versatile. Punks knew that you wouldn't shoot them, but they knew that you would engage the night stick. The mere presence of one cooled down some riled up trouble makers on occasion.

Yes they did. I carried my sap or billy in one and a flashlight in the other. They did away with the that pocket when the Cargo/BDU style pants became the trend.

I have posted this story before, can't remember if it was on this forum or not.

The NC State Highway Patrol issued blackjacks (labeled "Convoy") for many years. They had uniform pants specially made with a small pocket on the leg (at hand level) to carry the "convoy."

One of the overall department legal advisers had one mounted on a plaque on her wall. The inscription was "The $186000 Convoy." That's what it cost the state of NC in damages for the improper use of the weapon. That was the end of "convoys" for the NC State Highway Patrol.

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Bill

A friend of mine visited his wife's family in St Louis back in the '80 & saw the trousers with the sap pocket.

A number of the officers that I worked with carried them. I never did, but working night shift for 12 years straight, followed by 9 years on evenings, I had a 4 cell flashlight handy.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Some of the Old Heads in my PD carried saps
or what we called "slappers".
We were not issued nightsticks until around 1977.
Went through a training program..."three from the ring"...
"Seven count kata".(sp)

During our training an old very seasoned copper (WWII vet)
told the Lt. if he had to used that much energy on a suspect
he was justified to just shoot him.

I carried one like the OPs in sap pocket in my uniform pants for 13 years.
Very effective tool.

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Eccentric old coot

I have heard a couple of “D” cell batteries in a sock works pretty well.

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Not in jail.

When my sister went off to law school in Cleveland, my father gave her a sawed off pool cue butt with lead in one end and a lanyard in the other. Not sure where he got it from.

Hmm. I should ask her if she still has it.

No personal experience, but I've always read that a 4 or 5 "D" cell Maglight is just as good for "putting out someones lights" as it is for lighting up dark spaces

Kinda' like a short nightstick with a light on one end.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Mag lite worked too. Threw mine at a car that didn’t slow down going through a wreck scene. It went through the windshield. Another Patrolman stopped the car about 40 miles down the road for reckless driving.
Light still works.

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Eccentric old coot

Back in the early 50's my old man took on two policemen and one of them laid a sap behind his right ear. He faded into the lawn!! Funny!

Here’s a couple I was talking about.

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Get off my lawn!

I have a military police "night stick" and a PR24. Both are packed away. At my age would probably get hurt trying to use one. Side of the thigh as hard as you can will bring down most folks, unless they are on drugs.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Here are a couple from my collection.

And, I will tell you that the Streamlight SL-20 will take the fight right out of a fella when applied liberally.....blind'em-beat'em, check for damage/compliance, repeat as needed

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On the Oak Savannah

My BIl, a deputy sheriff patrolled out in the boonies on the night shift. He had lots of problems with drunks and other belligerent people.

He was told back up was in route. Well both cars arrived and his back up was a old timer getting ready to retire. BIL was rather new and the older deputy went in he was carring a Billy in his left hand. They were outnumbered at the gin mill and one made a attack and grabbed the Billy Club. The old deputy let him have a hit from the little blackjack in his right hand that no one noticed and put him down hard on the floor. All got real quite then!

Took the hit drunk to the station. The old deputy with a smile told my brother in law I have been using this trick for years. They always watch the Billy they never see the sap.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

I have heard of a roll of pennies in a sock being used as an improvised blackjack.

I mentioned my blackjack grandpa story earlier. While he always kept a blackjack on his person, he also kept a similarly weighted cut-off pool cue handy nearby. He said he didn't want to carry a pistol because he would probably end up killing someone and he didn't want to do that.

You read correctly.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

https://smith-wessonforum.com/attach...1&d=1709856848

Hold that little sap in the palm of your hand. Witness would say the officer just slapped the drunk and he fell down.

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Eccentric old coot

1. Convoy Blackjack- 16 oz. 12" in length, steel spring with a round lead head, wrapped in weaved leather. a leather strap belt attached at the bottom and up to the lead head.

2. Attitude Ajustment Tool - a 16" 2" steel cable wrapped in tape with a walking cane rubber tip at both ends

I carried a flat slapper for years. Seldom used, but very useful.

One time we were at a domestic where the husband was an AH First Class. He had battered his wife, but she refused to press charges. At the time, the DA would not prosecute if we had a disinterested prosecutrix.

The wife wanted to leave. Despite two vehicles in the driveway, the husband would not turn over the keys to either one. We had her pack up a few belongings so we could transport her for a medical checkup, then to a battered women's shelter.

We were leaving with her, going down a narrow stairway with concrete sides that led to the driveway. I deliberately was last in line thinking the husband would make a move towards her, which would have to be through me. That battery on a peace officer would make him arrestable, and then we could add on the domestic violence charge, and then maybe the DA would file.

The husband made his move as we were on the staircase. As he started to push me aside, I already had the slapper in my hand. So as I was being moved I came around and gave him 2 or 3 very quick blows to the head.

Fight was over instantly. Took him to the county hospital to get his head stitched up, then to jail. As I was also the command duty officer, I called the on-call judge to get the bail raised to where he would not get out until he want to court. Judges were extremely cooperative on such matters.

As soon as he appeared in court he started to tell the judge what had happened, and here he was, severely injured. But the judge had the report in front of him, so he did not want to hear any of it from the defendant.

Since the husband was in jail, at least until court, the wife got to go back inside her home.

I never got a subpoena for court, so I assume at some point he pled out.

We never got another call at that house.

Mine had that pocket from when I started in 1969 until the early 80's.

Or how about a roll of nickles/quarters being used as a substitute for brass knuckles?

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