I've always liked the Scout rifle concept, but technology and the market have long passed it by. You have to remember that the concept had its genesis at a time when semi-auto battle rifles were very heavy and cumbersome, and the AR platform was only available in 5.56.

The scout concept worked great if you wanted a handy carbine for intermediate ranges in a larger caliber. Today, you can build a small frame AR in an intermediate caliber (or even .308) with modern optics that will meet the 'scout' requirements, and be far more capable.

I had a Ruger GSR, and wasn't that impressed with it, and eventually built a nice little 7.62x39 CZ scout rifle. It was a very nice little 5.5lb, 200 yard rifle, but honestly didn't do anything an AR platform wouldn't do better these days. But that wasn't the case when Cooper proposed the concept.

I really wished the 307 and 356 Winchester rounds would have hung on. A Marlin or Winchester carbine in those calibers would have all the necessary power and "handiness" required for a scout rifle...and cost less. They can be configured to accommodate any realistic situation. Didn't Cooper himself espouse the value of a 30-30 carbine?

I tried and have never really cared for the pistol scope forward on a rifle.

I think the best medium gun for a scout rifle is a 18"-20" Enfield with the factory receiver sights. The gun is proven in the mad minute drills, 100 rds @200 yards on an 18" target in 60 seconds. It also gives a quick access to target.

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Front sight and squeeze

I tried the Savage version and wasn't really impressed. I settled with the SCAR 17 and ACOG. Ironic, since it seems even more people hate the SCAR than the Scout rifle concept.

I had an early Savage Scout rifle in .308. While I like Savage rifles they tend to have one big flaw...poor designed and executed stocks to save money. The stock on that Scout was light...but it sure transmitted recoil! A well designed stock won't do that to the same degree.

I read his articles too. The following photo made me realize he was full of hooey! There no way he carried that Mulie down a mountain like that. He probably had 3 guys help hoist it onto his shoulders, they snapped the photo, then he went to the doctor and got his hernia repaired.

Even if you were strong enough to do that, it seems like a good way to get shot!

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"I also cook."

I bought the "Timber scout" in 2006 mainly because it was one of the last model 94's made at the Winchester factory. It shoots like a varmint rifle with the Hornady Lever evolution 30-30 rounds.

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I keep blowin down the road

In 1961, Jim Land (b. 1935) of the USMC, started the first Marine Scout Sniper program. In the process, he was instrumental in the development of modern sniper rifles.
They went from using the old Springfield M1D and modified 1903s, to adopting target rifles built on the Winchester m70 and Remington m700.
Of course, Jim Land didn't work alone. Others did their own work, especially as the results and effectiveness of the program became apparent.
Ultimately, this would lead to the M40 sniper rifle and other developments that are still in use today.

What effect did Cooper's push for his "scout rifle" concept have?
Did any branch of the various military services, in any country, adopt his ideas?
I don't think so.

So, was it just a gimmick to sell rifles, or simply an answer to a question nobody asked?

Yeah, Cooper had some interesting hunting stories.
My "favorite" was his claim to have acquired a museum permit so he could hunt gorillas with a .44 Magnum.
He said something to the effect of "It takes a real man to stand his ground and flatten a 600 lb charging gorilla."
But, there was scant evidence that he ever did this.
(Probably just as well!)

What I'm reading here is a lot of people don't know what a Scout rifle is. They think they know, but they are wrong. Then they judge all "Scout rifles" together.

If it is not light and handy enough to be the first rifle you want to carry along (if not using a .22), its not a Scout.

If it does not have the power and range to take game up to 400-450 pounds at ethical distance, its not a Scout rifle.

If it uses a cartridge you can't buy at any shop that sells ammo, it's not a Scout rifle.

And once more, a forward mounted scope does not by itself make a rifle a Scout rifle.

Over the years, many people have found it fashionable to put words in Cooper’s mouth, so to speak. His writing was always clear enough. One only needed to read it - not interpret it.

Incidentally, I don’t recall that he ever mentioned a Scout needing a battle rifle size magazine. In fact, I believe he leaned exactly the opposite, since huge magazines are contrary to several aspects of the Scout concept.

The forward mounted scope was to make loading a little easier, but mainly it was believed you could acquire targets more quickly than a conventional scope. I had one of the first Savage Scouts in .308, a Ruger American in .308 that had been Scouted, a Styer Scout in .223 and a Christensen Ridgeline Scout in .308.

Detachable magazines made reloading quicker and easier. LPVO conventional mounted scopes acquire targets just as quick as forward mounted scopes (at least for me). Forward mounted scopes are not as effective in low light, such as sunrise/sunset as a conventional mounted one because of the excessive ambient light.

I still have the Styer .223 with a 1 1/2 X 4 Leupold and the Christensen Scout .308 with a 3X9 Leupold. Both scopes are conventionally mounted. The .223 ammo is cheaper and a lot softer shooting. The .308 handles any hunting I might ever do. I’ve been to Gunsite’s 270 Basic Rifle class and I am planning on attending again this fall. I think the “Scout Rifle” is continually evolving and a more accurate name might be “Practical Rifle”.

I built a pseudo-Scout from an Ishapore Enfield about 20 years ago. Chopped the barrel, put a synthetic stock on it, and an LER scope. The barrel mount put the scope too high to be used without a cheek riser. It was fun, but in no way representative of the Colonel's ideal.

It got traded off, a couple of years later I acquired a Ruger GSR in .308. Low mount Leupold 2.5x LER. A completely different animal than the Ishapore that I cobbled together. It would make weight if I traded out for the synthetic stock, but there is something about the laminate that makes it special. It is a "grab and go" carbine that often goes along for the ride even if I don't know what I will be pursuing or be pursued by.

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Only a cold warrior

Perfectly describes the man I met one time years back. He was perhaps the biggest Alpha Hotel I ever had the displeasure of meeting. I was a guest at the home in which I met him, so I remained polite but could not wait to leave. I started reading about him, witnessed the remarkable similarity between his Gunsite emblems to Nazi memorabilia as well as his cultish admiration to many things Aryan and came to the conclusion that he was a total ****** fruitcake.

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Forum consigliere

I was never a fan of the forward mounted scope on a rifle.
Call it a 'Scout' or what ever you want to. It doesn't do much at all for a shooter in my estimation.
Some shooters say they can get on target quicker and things like that.
Then go for it. I just never experienced that.
Open sights will do that for me.

What the fad had done over the years has saved a lot of fine Military and some classic sporter rifles from being D&T'ed for scope bases. Sometimes none too professionally done.
The 'Scout Scope Mount bases offered from a few companys to take the place of existing rear sight assemblys and lock into the orig bases w/o any alterations gave the 'I gotst'a have a scope' generation their optic sight but w/o damaging the rifles originality.
Maybe a lost rear sight assembly at times when the scope was later removed, but at least the receiver was saved from the Black&Decker monster.

I can't ever remember reading a full article written by the Col.
Just didn't find the stuff interesting.

So is this a “scout rifle”?
Rossi R-95 .30-30 with full RPP treatment and 2x prism optic. It’s lightweight, quite fast both to sight in and cycle, and a hoot to shoot.



Note: no Marlins were harmed creating this image! I confess that I did this partly to horrify the more closed-minded members of the MarlinOwners forum.

As a milsurp guy, this is the key for me.

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Release the Kraken

I always wondered about the emblem, too.

Not being a general reader of the gun mags until recently I was never "into" the scout rifle fad. Then again, I had my Grandfathers Marlin 336A to shoot and carry all over the western Washington mountains.

And later when I was hunting in Colorado, I longed for a short, light weight rifle with a scope. Pity I never got one. Recently (the last 5 years or so) I happened on a Remington M600, and it has turned out to be the rifle I wanted in the years I hunted Colorado.

Again recently, (last 15 years I was given a Mossburg bolt action .22LR. The barrel for the first 6 inches from the muzzle back to the chamber was in a deep state of corrosion. How bad? The barrel was completely blocked with orange rust. I cut the barrel back 8 inches, and the magazine tube, crowned the new muzzle, bead blasted the action, barrel, mag tube, sanded and oiled the stock, mounted a fine Simmons scope, and made myself a fair representation of a scout rifle in .22lr caliber. And it's a treat to carry and shoot here in these northern Illinois woods, just as the Remington M600 would be in the hills and valleys of Colorado.

Anybody who has been forced to carry a 9-11 pound or heavier rifle in the mountains of Colorado will surely appreciate a "scout rifle".

Remember that most game for the table, regardless of where it is taken, is taken in less than 200 yards. Yes, maybe in your area it is further, but the reality is, that is not the norm. In western Washington most game is taken within 75 feet not yards.

In my view a "scout rifle" is just a step up from a camp gun. That one gun that is handy, reasonably light to carry, that anybody can grab and hunt with if needed, but which is also that gun you might want to have with you in the truck or on the 4wheeler for that opportune time when you haven't filled your tag but, lo and behold, a fine table specimen of venison ambled up from the draw, outside the reach of your sidearm and your lever-gun in the rack behind the seat. In such a case you don't have to guess the correct amount of elevation to hold over, you just sight and poke that .308 round in the boiler, and then go collect your dinner, because you sighted that scout rifle for two or three hundred yards, and you are confident of your abilities.

The Scout Rifle moved aside when the
Stout Revolver arrived.
A fast 5 is possible.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

At a loss for words.........All I can say is GEEZ......

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S&W Accumulator

I've always favored the basic scout rifle premise; a general-purpose rifle, lightweight, quick-handling, suitable for most situations it's owner might encounter. Essentially, as has been pointed out here, that rifle you'd grab if you weren't sure what you needed it for.

What I've never bought into, is Col. Cooper's overly specific guidelines for the scout rifle's configuration. Now, in all fairness, as far as I know he did coin the term "scout rifle", so I guess it was his prerogative to define it any way he pleased.

So, that said, I'll just call mine an "Out Rifle", for those times when I might find myself Out At The Edge. For my purposes, I chose the AR15 platform in .300 Blackout. I selected the components for quality and light weight. With the Wilson Combat SS fluted barrel, the slick-side upper, Doublestar ACE Ultralight stock, and Leupold 2.5x20 Ultralight scope in an Aero 1-piece mount, this handy carbine comes in at 6.5 lbs with an empty 10 rd magazine. It's death on whitetails, so I imagine it would suffice for about anything else that might need shooting here in Wisconsin.
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Ain't This Fun Though?

I built my take on the "scout rifle" from a Swedish Mauser with excellent bore and used that slick front sight replacement scope mount, put a long eye relief scope on and everyone that has shot it loves it. I have it sighted in dead on at 150yds and it as accurate as is necessary.

Savage Scout 7.62x39...Burris 2-7 Scout Scope...Lapua ammo...400 yards.

Ruger Frontier .358 Winchester same scope...

Both are shooters...Bob

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Scout scope is IER. Intermediate eye relief.
Pistol scope is EER. Extended eye relief.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

Col. Jeff Cooper offered mostly good advise but the scout scope is not one of those for me . I spent to many years hunting with a 2.5-10x40mm scope on a rem 788 in 308 before the scout rifle came to be and was comfortable in thick creek bottoms or hard wood swamps or making a heart shot at 350 yards in the field .

I have tried a steyr scout rifle back around '99 or 2000 a dealer local had as his own rifle . It had the luppy 2 power scout scope but it was not an opinion I would use even if free and even the owner over the rifle ended up replacing that scope for a normal variable power rifle scope .

A variable power standard rifle scope can give you a chance at a quality shot with a larger field of view and have a better light gathering ability when that is needed .

Cooper also loved his steel 5" 1911 in 45 But when the siggly P225 came along he preferred it for daily carry !? Glad we have choices to buy a use what we like .

Cooper said, "If you can't hold it there for 60 seconds, then your rifle is too heavy."But I say, "If you can't hold it there for 60 seconds, then you are too weak!" There is a photo.

In the chapter entitled, "The Instrument" are four pages including two photos, containing by far the LEAST important information in the whole book. He says, "The forward mounted Scoutscope permits strip loading in conjunction with a Mauser type action." This is the other photo.

At the time of the Cooper's Commentaries, 1993-2006, there was a lot of talk about the scout rifle among people who never developed any of the skills which would make the concept meaningful. But you know this is what we do. We talk about equipment and buy the next thing because that is easy and allows us to maintain our self-illusions. But if you try to actually shoot like he says you must, it will require humility and long determination.

Go do it. I really believe God will be proud of you.
BrianD

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696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411

Frankly, a historical "scout rifle" was simply a Winchester 94 in .30-30 with a 1950's-70's quality Japanese optic in 4x32.

This scout rifle trend may have been an ephemeral Guns and Ammo concept/thing at some point in the past, but I never saw or heard of this concept until Mosins and Mausers starting becoming cheap in the late 1990's.

The “Scout Rifle” never had a hey day. Its a fantasy, which is fine. You’re sitting at your desk, filing TPS reports but thinking about grabbing the perfect rifle to head out into the hills, bills and bosses left behind.

Cooper lost me me when he said our troops would be better armed with 1860 Colt Armies and Winchester 94s than Beretta M9s and M16s. C’mon.

I respect his service but that’s about it.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Cooper’s wife was of Scandinavian ancestry. The Raven has been a Norse symbol for centuries, as a protector or guardian. Or, one might say, self-defense.

Nazi memorabilia? Good Lord.

He what? Are we just making things up at random now?

Read G&A along with Shooting Times, etc. when I was a student. Enjoyed the articles. Closest I ever came to a Scout rifle was to think about a Remington Model 7 chambered in 7mm-08. Never could afford it, so forgot about it. Later, graduated, could afford surplus rifles. Decided that a plain Jane Springfield 03-A3 was about all I needed for hunting or whatever. Occasionally borrowed rifles from my brother, but kept coming back to the Springfield. Few years ago, finally had to accept I could no longer ethically hunt deer w/ iron sights. Found a 03-A3 w/ bent bolt. Had it D/T. Keeps five shots at MOA or under. Not heavy. Still can carry it anywhere all day. Never have to wonder if it will work. If I'd been thinking, I'd have found an action and set it up for in military form w/ a commercial barrel and a forward mounted scope. That would have allowed clip loading, etc. Oh well. If I again get to go deer hunting, I will just make due with that faux 03-A4. But, then again, if I ever see a Rem. Model 7 ... well, I can dream. Sincerely. bruce.

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<><

I have an original Steyr Scout in 308, traditionally mounted Khales 1.1 X 4.5 X 20mm, 30mm tube. It is light enough to carry and heavy enough to absorb recoil. It is an ideal rifle for hunting out of a box blind. (as I enter my 80th year the box blind is more and more my style of hunting). It shoots smaller groups than I am capable of. I zeroed the rifle years ago with 168 Grain Hornady ammo and have never had turret caps off since.The trigger out of the box is light and crisp. I have no need for magazines that will accommodate a full box of shells. As a general purpose weapon it has no short comings. If elk or bear or plains game is on the menu, I have more suitable calibers but in a pinch the Scout will serve.

As an aside, why is it that nobody can spell Steyr?

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Release the Kraken

Yes, I feel the scout rifle has outlived its heyday. Especially the “scout” scope concept. It does nothing well with serious limitations in several scenarios (sun into or behind you, precise shots at distance). And I own a Steyr Scout .308, but pulled the scout scope years ago for a conventional setup.

Something like a Ruger SFAR makes it obsolete.

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SWCA #3929, SWHF #1010

That's the problem with the original concept. I'm not sure why anyone would even consider one. There are a few light weight bolt rifles out there that use magazines, so the stripper clip is obsolete. So is the long eye relief scope although they can still be sourced because occasionally people buy those for..... scout rifles. Blind and floor plate magazines, although many exist, are last century rifles. I have one so I know why a scout rifle would be an advantage if someone were actually shooting at you.

Cavalry Scouts use their special training to obtain, distribute, and share vital combat and battlefield intelligence on the enemy and on combat circumstances and environmental conditions. The Cavalry Scout is also known as the "eyes and ears" of the Army.

Cooper lived in a world without drones watching the enemies movements. So he only knew the Army tactics of his time.

The concept isn't applicable to todays light weight bolt rifles with composite stocks. The Ruger Ranch bolt rifle weighs 6.8 lbs. Put a dot on it and it weighs even less than a scoped rifle.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Ah, yes, the Model 7. What a delightful little lightweight rifle. One of my great mistakes was letting one go that I bought for my daughter. When it became obvious she would not be the hunting type, I thought I could use the money better elsewhere. I did. I bought her a very nice 1911 .45 Auto, which she enjoys and is proficient with for informal target shooting, but I should have kept the Model 7, too. Nicely checkered, pretty, well shaped, dark colored walnut stock with cute schnabel forearm, short barrel with serviceable, if not ideal, iron sights, trim and very light - and in .260 Remington caliber. (Not a .308, but a decent caliber for a handloader, and especially for a lady, or a recoil sensitive shooter.) A foolish mistake in the extreme.

Realizing my error, later I replaced the .260 with a 7KS in .308, for my own use, and I still have it, but it is not the delight the wood stocked Model 7 was. It has a receiver mounted Leupold VX-2 1-4x scope. Will shoot almost any .308 ammo into 1.5” at 100 yards, often a bit better. In my opinion, it’s less of a burden to carry than the Steyr, even with the receiver mounted scope, and maybe faster to bring into action. I have no reason to be overly concerned about the reliability of the Remington action, though the rear guard screw could be improved. The scope is secured by a Pilkington rear lever, for quick detach if damaged, but the design does not permit reliable return to precise zero in reinstall without verification. I doubt Mr. Cooper would be satisfied with my 7KS, but I also doubt he would deny its handiness.

Jeff has been gone now for 18+ years. In the present crop of writers, I don’t see that anyone has come along to fill in the void, and it seems obvious none of them are interested in trying.

I've always been intrigued with the concept. Back in the day, some 20+ years ago, I bought a Savage Scout in 7mm-08. Great little rifle. I only ever shot paper but found it to be accurate and handy. I simply couldn't afford a Steyr Scout, but always thought they were cool

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago. Cabela's had purchased a lot of Steyr Scouts in 6.5 Creedmoor. They were marked down to $1199. I watched over several months as they started to thin out and then a couple of weeks ago they dropped to $999. Then discovered that for members aka people who have a Cabela's Card that on Monday's between now and Memorial Day you could stack a 10% discount with the 5% military discount, plus bonus bucks or whatever. Long story short, I managed to get one for only $830. At that price, I don't really care if it has outlived its usefulness!

I plopped a Leupold FXII 6x36 in the conventional scope mount spot and took it to the range yesterday for an initial zero.

10 shots inside .46" at 50 yards with 130 Berger's. I'll load up some more and stretch it out in the weeks ahead.

I’ve got a (JM) Marlin 336D “Guide Gun” in .35 Remington. It’s got a 18.5” ported barrel and straight stock. It’s really a ‘scout rifle’ set up. Nice gun, I believe Marlin only made 1,000 of these “Guide Guns.” My understanding is that they’re pretty sought after my Marlin collectors…

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NRA Life Member

The modern Steyr Scouts seem to be uniformly good shooters, from the accounts I’ve heard. A light, handy, reliable rifle that is accurate and is chambered for a reasonably powerful cartridge can hardly “outlive it’s usefulness.” It will still be useful generations from now, maybe just not the height of fashion. Congratulations on your new Scout.

Someone mentioned earlier that the .358 Winchester cartridge would seem ideal for a modern day “Lion Scout.” I had not thought of that but it would certainly get my attention if Steyr would offer it. I doubt the idea would attract their attention, though it should. Leads one to wonder if that shouldn’t be a “rifle project” for the future…

Precisely. If you don't know the connections between Nordicism and the Nazi's you are not keeping up with your history.
Like your Avatar by the way

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Forum consigliere

Cooper was one of those guys who alluded that he was in combat and involved secret ops. So secret there is no record of them. He found a scam with his infatuation with the 1911. The scout rifle was no different. How many guys that were hunters before Cooper hit the gun rags ran out and bought a scout rifle rig? The wanna bee crowd is who bought them.
He ain’t the only one. All kinds of that in gun writer crowd. I think some landed the job before they ever shot a gun. The old writers and experts actually lived the life of guns and hunting. Guys like Elmer might spin a tale tale or two, but Hell they were there!

The negativity that seems to be following Col. Cooper is truly remarkable to me. To read several comments here, he was nothing more than an ethically challenged, obstinate snake oil salesman.

To my way of thinking, he is the Father of the modern pistol technique. The arms qualification for pistol, shotgun, and patrol carbine in the state of Alaska law enforcement remain strongly based upon the teachings of Jeff Cooper and Gunsite. Not to come off as being braggadocious, but we aquit ourselves purty well in the real. Of weapon handling.

That's not to say I'm a hardcore cult follower of Mr. Cooper. For example, I wish we could move away from his color code and consider transitional spaces to a greater degree. I complety see that he may have been a bloviating *****. That being said I would have loved to attend a class with him. I just...might not have wanted to hang out afterwards to bask in his awesomeness.

As far as the Scout Rifle itself...The cynic could say it could be argued that the scout rifle concept has existed since the first guy cut the barrel down on his musket, thereby nullifying every major facet of the scout rifle short of the long eye relief scope.

The advocate could say it has indeed evolved. Oversize bolt handles, hellbent for stout LPVO scopes with a comfortable eye relief, detachable magazines, carbon fiber barrels, stocks, etc. There are alot of incredible ways that the intentions of the scout rifle concept are met and exceeded in the world we live in. And even going back a few years the Remington 600, 660, 673, Model 7, Model 788, 700 Mountain Gun. Winchester 70 Featherweight, etc. Checked many boxes with aplomb.

If a deal on a...scout rifle...pseudo scout rifle, etc. I'd be interested.

If a deal comes along on a decent carbine with the right scope, dot, etc. I'd take that too.

I honestly feel that the scout rifle concept as presented by Jeff Cooper is misunderstood by many. The concept of a light, handy mid size rifle however is understood by nearly all.

I too am amazed by some of the comments on here about Col. Cooper. No, I'm not a cult follower of his (there are too many cults in this country as it is) but I always enjoyed his G&A columns, and his books are a pleasure to read. The mark of a true wordsmith is someone who can write about a subject you're not interested in, and draw and keep your attention...and Jeff Cooper certainly could do that.

I've owned a Steyr Scout Rifle for years, and I would respectfully urge those who don't "get" the concept, or who think the only thing noteworthy about a Scout is the scope, to spend some time shooting a Steyr Scout.

The first thing I think you'd notice is that the Steyr Scout is ergonomically perfect. It's light, feels good when you shoulder it, and points very naturally. The length of pull is adjustable via the spacers on the buttstock. The idea of a forward-mounted scope is counter-intuitive, but works perfectly. The design is very clever, from the Ching Sling to the spare magazine storage in the buttstock, to the built-in bipod (the only potentially weak point of the rifle, IMO). The accuracy is superb.

No, it's not a hunting rifle. And it's not a target rifle. And it's not a SHTF para-military rifle. But if can function in those roles, if need be. I concede that it was Jeff Cooper's vanity project, and that he apparently had a -- ahem! -- very healthy ego...but on the other hand, I don't think his creativeness can be denied...

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Where Law Ends, Tyranny Begins

I have a good selection of Remington 600s and 660s, 223, 6mm (2), 308, 6.5 Creedmore (rebarreled) and 350 magnum. Great rifles, Handy. News to me that they are "scout rifles"

I agree with this entirely. I've only ever seen him on TV, and my impression of the man is that he could certainly shoot, but he was a little "off".

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Release the Kraken

Seems to me that they're your guns. You get to refer to them however you care to. If it were me, I'd simply consider that they all pretty much achieve the same task at the end of the day, and be thankful for the choices available to us all.

I like the Scout idea with its practicality and absolutely support the forward mounted scope if for no other reason than to avoid getting 32 stitches in the eyebrow because you were too close to the standard mounted scope.

"32" is an oddly specific number of stitches!

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Because of the metric system?

I liked reading his stuff, but never took him too seriously. I always figured at some point we'd be sending a group of special forces upriver to capture him, with Ride of the Valkyries playing in the background . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .