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I think a classic style Scout rifle with a straight pull action would be a step up, as it would be quicker and easier to operate. I never did find a use for one, but I shoot mainly S&W revos anyway.
Has the Scout Rifle Outlived it's Hey Day?
- Thread starter Shrek Of The Arctic
- Start date
Hunting rifle - .308:
Hunting rifle - .35 Whelen, yes, yes, it was an 8mm Mauser that I happily had defaced, rebarreled, etc.:
MSR - 5.56/.223:
Fighting rifle:
See MSR
Hunting rifle - .35 Whelen, yes, yes, it was an 8mm Mauser that I happily had defaced, rebarreled, etc.:
MSR - 5.56/.223:
Fighting rifle:
See MSR
I never got the excitement and didn’t think much of it as a new concept.
Never liked LER scopes. Cooper should have stuck to 1911s. As far as I’m concerned Cooper was a salesman who created his own market.
Hunters in eastern woods have used various carbines before the Scout rifle was invented. It doesn’t require an expensive rig. Like somebody stated a
REM 600-660 makes a perfect rig.
Never liked LER scopes. Cooper should have stuck to 1911s. As far as I’m concerned Cooper was a salesman who created his own market.
Hunters in eastern woods have used various carbines before the Scout rifle was invented. It doesn’t require an expensive rig. Like somebody stated a
REM 600-660 makes a perfect rig.
LVSteve
Member
What was his beef with the Savage interpretation?
45Smashemflat
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No photos handy, but I built my version on an 1895 Marlin in 45/70. Started with a Guide Gun, added the Luepold LER M8, rear peep sight, and a Galco Ching Sling.
It’s been a woods gun of mine for many years. Everything I’ve shot with it seemed impressed enough to lay down quickly.
It’s been a woods gun of mine for many years. Everything I’ve shot with it seemed impressed enough to lay down quickly.
OP
Shrek Of The Arctic
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The Remington 600 in .308 was the original scout rifle. He like it so much he had another made up in .350 Remington for bigger medicine, so to speak. Called it "baby"? "Thumper?" I have his book somewhere, I just lack the time and inclination to dig it out and crack it open.
The LER acope was a pretty handy idea for it's time....which was well before red dots, illuminated reticles and the like. I think it may have been one of those things you had to try to appreciate.
Here's a case in point for current times-
I'm currently considering a .450 Bushmaster bolt action. One is the Ruger Scout. Beautiful and cool looking gun. 6.5 lbs, and it'd set me back $1,300. There also the Ruger American. Literally half that price. 6 lbs. An extra $650 or so would go a long ways towards an optic and some ammo. The current lpvo and prism scopes are mighty handy, and address many items that the scout rifle was intended for. It don't getcha the Col. Cooper's Cool Kids Club patch, but I bet it would fill that scout role remarkably well for half the price.
I seem to recall the Savage Scout came along shortly after the Steyr he worked so hard with. Basically....an "inferior" copy of his genuine article. It seems the good Col. May have....lacked perspective at times. "You can't afford $2,500 for MY Scout rifle?! Well...quit being poor, dummy!"
I think the scout rifle was a good concept for it's time...but now the times have caught up.
I do regret that I never got to see Cooper's remarks when the AR started being chambered in .458 SOCOM and .50 BW...I'm sure he remained unimpressed.
"Absorb what is useful. Discard what is not. Add what is uniquely your own." Bruce Lee
The LER acope was a pretty handy idea for it's time....which was well before red dots, illuminated reticles and the like. I think it may have been one of those things you had to try to appreciate.
Here's a case in point for current times-
I'm currently considering a .450 Bushmaster bolt action. One is the Ruger Scout. Beautiful and cool looking gun. 6.5 lbs, and it'd set me back $1,300. There also the Ruger American. Literally half that price. 6 lbs. An extra $650 or so would go a long ways towards an optic and some ammo. The current lpvo and prism scopes are mighty handy, and address many items that the scout rifle was intended for. It don't getcha the Col. Cooper's Cool Kids Club patch, but I bet it would fill that scout role remarkably well for half the price.
I seem to recall the Savage Scout came along shortly after the Steyr he worked so hard with. Basically....an "inferior" copy of his genuine article. It seems the good Col. May have....lacked perspective at times. "You can't afford $2,500 for MY Scout rifle?! Well...quit being poor, dummy!"
I think the scout rifle was a good concept for it's time...but now the times have caught up.
I do regret that I never got to see Cooper's remarks when the AR started being chambered in .458 SOCOM and .50 BW...I'm sure he remained unimpressed.
"Absorb what is useful. Discard what is not. Add what is uniquely your own." Bruce Lee
Doesn't sound like you read Col Cooper's writings re: the Scout. He said it was a general purpose rifle that was good at a lot of things. Not necessarily the best for any one purpose. It would handle everything from varmints to 400 KG animals. It was the one gun you grabbed when you did not know what was going to happen. It was never intentioned to be a specific purpose rifle. A general purpose rifle whose defining attribute was "handiness"
hkcavalier
US Veteran
I'll toot my own horn a little. I wrote this review of Cooper's "Art of the Rifle" for Survivalblog back in 2015: Book Review: “The Art of the Rifle” by Jeff Cooper, by J.S. - SurvivalBlog.com
I think the scout rifle concept "jumped the shark" long ago, especially with gun maker's marketing. Cooper advocated for simple, highly reliable designs that weren't overly specialized. Gun industry marketing tries very hard to force specialization in order to convince you to buy something new. "Oh you're going bear hunting? Well put away that .338 old son, that ain't enuff, lemme sell you this .458 Win Mag right over here..."
I mentioned in my write up that Cooper liked sporterized Krags and other milsurps. In his own book he doesn't delve much into the "scout rifle" at all. It's almost all fieldcraft and psychology. Y'know, how to shoot stuff, and all with calibers developed before most of us were born.
I think the scout rifle concept "jumped the shark" long ago, especially with gun maker's marketing. Cooper advocated for simple, highly reliable designs that weren't overly specialized. Gun industry marketing tries very hard to force specialization in order to convince you to buy something new. "Oh you're going bear hunting? Well put away that .338 old son, that ain't enuff, lemme sell you this .458 Win Mag right over here..."
I mentioned in my write up that Cooper liked sporterized Krags and other milsurps. In his own book he doesn't delve much into the "scout rifle" at all. It's almost all fieldcraft and psychology. Y'know, how to shoot stuff, and all with calibers developed before most of us were born.
^^^^^^^^^ this exactly !
The problem with the Scout “rifle” (actually a carbine, IMO) is that it has never been produced in a version as Cooper intended. But, whether that would make a difference to most potential buyers is likely not much, if any.
Many of the original Scout design concepts were all but ignored by Steyr. They made a version that had a few good features, but failed miserably in others. It was/is too heavy, among other things, especially when judged against more conventional lightweight rifles on the market today. At the time, this left Cooper in the unenviable position of defending an essentially indefensible product.
Likewise, there were/are few optics available that provide the ~9” of eye relief necessary. Right now, the only product I could find is from Vortex.
I think the Scout concept is still relevant today. A lightweight, short-barreled rifle of .308-power is handy anywhere that shots are likely at 300 yards or less. I do find it difficult to see any advantage to the forward-mounted scope EXCEPT that it does make carrying the rifle at the balance point considerably more convenient, which is very worthwhile, to me. Whether the trade off favors the forward-mounted scope is arguable. I would not want to hang my hat on that point alone, but I’m not about to mount a telescope on the receiver of my Steyr. And note that the present US-made “Scouts” using huge detachable magazines completely negate balance point carry.
A long time ago, probably more than thirty-five years ago, I had a quasi-Scount assembled on a Model 70 Lightweight rifle, barrel shortened to 20-inches. It used the Burris 2-3/4x scope in Warne QD rings on custom bases. I never got around to providing iron back-up sights, mainly because I was mostly interested in experimenting with the forward optic. It worked ok, but the rifle only served to convince me of the handiness of carry it allowed. The jury remained out on the forward optic, and still is today.
At present, there are so many ultralightweight rifles in production weighing far less than the Steyr that one could fairly consider it some sort of interesting but outdated artifact from another era, which it is. That doesn’t mean it’s not still useful, if you have one.
I can think of a small handful of rifles, available now as standard production items, I’d much rather have, mounted with a suitable LPVO, and preferably with a slightly longer barrel. The nice features Steyr brought to the table (some might call them gimmicks) are just not critical to me. One could easily shave off 1 - 1.5 pounds, and also fire a more versatile and effective hunting cartridge (.30/06, for example), if desired.
So, no, I’d say since there is no real Scout rifle available today, I guess the concept has not gained any sort of relevance, beyond the idea of a short, light, handy, bolt-action .308. Those rifles are available, but like the Steyr, they don’t incorporate many of
features (gimmicks?) that Cooper desired.
Many of the original Scout design concepts were all but ignored by Steyr. They made a version that had a few good features, but failed miserably in others. It was/is too heavy, among other things, especially when judged against more conventional lightweight rifles on the market today. At the time, this left Cooper in the unenviable position of defending an essentially indefensible product.
Likewise, there were/are few optics available that provide the ~9” of eye relief necessary. Right now, the only product I could find is from Vortex.
I think the Scout concept is still relevant today. A lightweight, short-barreled rifle of .308-power is handy anywhere that shots are likely at 300 yards or less. I do find it difficult to see any advantage to the forward-mounted scope EXCEPT that it does make carrying the rifle at the balance point considerably more convenient, which is very worthwhile, to me. Whether the trade off favors the forward-mounted scope is arguable. I would not want to hang my hat on that point alone, but I’m not about to mount a telescope on the receiver of my Steyr. And note that the present US-made “Scouts” using huge detachable magazines completely negate balance point carry.
A long time ago, probably more than thirty-five years ago, I had a quasi-Scount assembled on a Model 70 Lightweight rifle, barrel shortened to 20-inches. It used the Burris 2-3/4x scope in Warne QD rings on custom bases. I never got around to providing iron back-up sights, mainly because I was mostly interested in experimenting with the forward optic. It worked ok, but the rifle only served to convince me of the handiness of carry it allowed. The jury remained out on the forward optic, and still is today.
At present, there are so many ultralightweight rifles in production weighing far less than the Steyr that one could fairly consider it some sort of interesting but outdated artifact from another era, which it is. That doesn’t mean it’s not still useful, if you have one.
I can think of a small handful of rifles, available now as standard production items, I’d much rather have, mounted with a suitable LPVO, and preferably with a slightly longer barrel. The nice features Steyr brought to the table (some might call them gimmicks) are just not critical to me. One could easily shave off 1 - 1.5 pounds, and also fire a more versatile and effective hunting cartridge (.30/06, for example), if desired.
So, no, I’d say since there is no real Scout rifle available today, I guess the concept has not gained any sort of relevance, beyond the idea of a short, light, handy, bolt-action .308. Those rifles are available, but like the Steyr, they don’t incorporate many of
features (gimmicks?) that Cooper desired.
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In case you were wondering:
.30-06 Springfield - obviously, but nobody thinks about it much, 1906.
.270 Winchester - 1923
.308 Winchester - 1952
So, unless you're on the outside edge of baby booming these calibers are all older than you are. And, even then, it's only the .308 that you Boomers might be older than...........maybe...
I like the idea of a light powerful rifle. That was the basis of Coopers philosophy. I don't care for barrel mounted scopes, though I understand his thoughts about being able to shoot with both eyes open so you keep your peripheral vision in play.
That being said, my decision was an AR platform .308 with an LPVO. It's a little heavy but I like semiautos and 20 round mags. It'll do.....
That being said, my decision was an AR platform .308 with an LPVO. It's a little heavy but I like semiautos and 20 round mags. It'll do.....
smoothshooter
Member
Aren’t straight-pull actions noisy to operate when chambering the first round?
Could be a tactical disadvantage.
I don't HAVE...
I don't HAVE a scout rifle, but the concept is not lost on me, being a carbine nut. I love light, handy rifles. It's a shame that they are losing popularity.
I don't HAVE a scout rifle, but the concept is not lost on me, being a carbine nut. I love light, handy rifles. It's a shame that they are losing popularity.
Here’s an article which I think is fairly accurate in its representation of Cooper’s requirements for a Scout rifle. The biggest problem I see with nonconformance is weight . . .
Cooper'''s Scout Rifle Concept: It'''s here to stay — Steemit
Cooper'''s Scout Rifle Concept: It'''s here to stay — Steemit
Scout rifle...
One of my regrets.
I bought a Remington 600 in a fairly scarce caliber (.35 Rem) and couldn't leave well enough alone.
I dumped a bunch of money into a custom steel rib, a steel trigger guard, a custom 700 style bolt release, a Leupold Detacho mounting system and a Leupold IER scope.
I never hunted with it and would lose my shirt if I sold it.
One of my regrets.
I bought a Remington 600 in a fairly scarce caliber (.35 Rem) and couldn't leave well enough alone.
I dumped a bunch of money into a custom steel rib, a steel trigger guard, a custom 700 style bolt release, a Leupold Detacho mounting system and a Leupold IER scope.
I never hunted with it and would lose my shirt if I sold it.
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paknheat
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Scout rifle...
One of my regrets.
I bought a Remington 600 in a fairly scarce caliber (.35 Rem) and couldn't leave well enough alone.
I dumped a bunch of money into a custom steel rib, a steel trigger guard, a custom 700 style bolt release, a Leupold Detacho mounting system and a Leupold IER scope.
I never hunted with it and would lose my shirt if I sold it.
That’s one slick scout rifle, go hunt with it.
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OP
Shrek Of The Arctic
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The Remington 600s have always been appealing to me
I even bought 100 rounds or so of brass, bullets, and dies for one in .350 Remington that I doubt I'll ever get around to.
I sure do admire them though!
I even bought 100 rounds or so of brass, bullets, and dies for one in .350 Remington that I doubt I'll ever get around to.
I sure do admire them though!
Scout rifle...
One of my regrets.
I bought a Remington 600 in a fairly scarce caliber (.35 Rem) and couldn't leave well enough alone....
Yeah, that might have been better done on a mismatched Turkish Mauser with a $79 Fajen stock.
Scout rifle...
One of my regrets.
I don’t see anything to regret. Nice set-up for whitetails in our neck of the woods.
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