I'm a fan of the scout rifle. I've had some very nice ones in the past. I don't know that I'd say "No" to one even now. Especially an original Steyr, although I really like the current Savages and Rugers as well.

In some ways, the parameters of a scout rifle still elude us, such as the 6.5 lb weight limit. In other ways, such as optics most of the goals intended are achieved quite gloriously with red dots, magnifiers, LPVOs, etc.

Of course, one of the goals of the forward mounted optic was to have easy access for loading and unloading, perhaps even with stripper clips, as I recall. On many bolt action rifles, this is a moot point, due to enclosed push feed actions anyways. And with the advent of 5,10, 20 round mags...adapting mags from AR 10s for example, it hardly seems as critical as it would have been back in the day of Remington 600s and 660s.

Lightweight, quick handling, medium range, medium caliber. That sounds to me alot like a Ruger American with a LPVO or even a decent red dot on it.

The thought of it's versatility is certainly legit. It does seem to have been built with a more romanticized one man vs. the world notion in mind. That doesn't really quite match the thinking of our modern world. Having said that, I went through a time when we were pretty dang broke and an earlier Savage Scout rifle fed my family. I also knew I was far from unarmed and helpless with it propped near my bed. So while the one gun notion seems to pretty much be a fantasy or a hypothetical exercise for us active gun nuts, I think a fella could do much worse than a Scout rifle.

With all the technology thrown out there these days, I still don't think a semi auto can ever be as light and nimble as an appropriate bolt gun.

One of my biggest scout rifle issues would be shooting it. Ammo has become outrageously priced, even for reloading. I paid $62 for a pound of Unique the other day! Not rifle powder, but I'm sure you get the gist.

If only Col. Cooper were here to lend his thoughts...

Me...I sadly think the world is moving on from the Scout Rifle concept. Semi auto rifles reign supreme. Many popular bolt actions no longer have stocks, but a "chassis" to my eyes a chassis kinda looks like a stock, but it weighs 2-3 times as much, and costs up to ten times as much. Most guys I know claim to be 1K-2K yard shooters, utilize bipods, 30x scopes, etc. Now...that ain't to speak ill of the precision crowd...but it sure ain't to be mixed up with the concept of a scout rifle.

Now me....I would love to see the scout rifle reconsidered. With the lightweight carbon fiber barrels, the range of optics, magazines, calibers
...I think it's possible to make the scout rifle better than we ever imagined back in the day.


I'd be curious what y'all think.

I bought an AR-10. Didn't really like the feel of the Ruger.

It does all that I need, and is pretty lightweight.

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On the Oak Savannah

I still have a scout style rifle. I put it together about 20 years ago from a Ispore Enfield I had laying around.

I still use it for my spot in the bottoms for deer & hogs. It has never failed me.

Like most firearms I have, it fills that niche quite nicely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I never saw the fascination with the scout rifle concept, at least with the barrel mounted scopes.

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213th FBINA

I think it might still be practical for whitetail hunting in the woods here in PA (no semi-autos allowed). Don't go that way myself, though. Hunt from a blind on my farm, shooting across my grain fields, so it's mostly shooting sticks and a scoped 22-24 inch 270 or 7mm mag for me and my kids.

I was a big fan of Colonel Cooper but the scout rifle eluded me as an item that I had a need for. I'm not sure how many rifles I had back when I first read about the scout rifle concept, probably not many, and I thought it was cool but I didn't know what I was going to use it for.

I still think it's cool and I still don't know what to do with one and I have way more than a few rifles since back in that day. I even had a Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser sporterized in the early 1990s and it's just as normal a hunting rifle as any others that I have.

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Come and take it!!

Back in the era of the Scout rifle concept, the AR platform was carry handle and 5.56 mm only. In the present times, with optic rails galore and chamberings in much more powerful cartridges, it’s hard to compare the Scout to a well set-up MSR.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Here’s the Steyr Scout at NRA Whittington in the Jeff Cooper display.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I'm can't claim to be much of a rifleman, but have an old scout type rifle done many years ago. This one is built on a Remington 660 .350 Magnum with 20" barrel and Leupold M8-2X scope. Col. Cooper called it a Super Scout. I think the scout types may have outlived their heyday. Most everything nowdays seems to be oriented toward ARs with all manner of accouterments attached to and hanging off them. Apparently, the busier looking, the better

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NRA Life, COTEP 640

While I never had or wanted to have a bolt action “scout” rifle the opportunity came up last year to purchase a NIB synthetic stock M1A scout that had been mfg 3/2013. It shot extremely well with iron sights. I put a red dot on it which was also very accurate and fun. I then found a good deal on a used Leupold scout scope with quick release mount. Great shooting with the scope also. It also looks great with a GI stock.
If I had to follow Col. Coopers concept of one all around rifle I would have to say this would be at the very top of my list to choose. I don’t think the concept has outlived its usefulness.

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Me either...I have never owned or desired one.

To me they always screamed "I didn't want to drill and tap my original Mauser, so I did this instead".

I think the Scout Rifle fad died because of all the long range stories from the various sandboxes over the last 30 years.

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Release the Kraken

Well, you're dead right, I don't want to drill my Mausers or Enfields.

On other forums there are some very impressive groups made using Swede Mausers in 6.5x55 fitted with forward mounted scopes. Their accuracy can be summed up as "more than adequate for government work."

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Release the Kraken

I don’t get it. I never got it. It was never the best at any one thing. No thanks.

I never saw a real purpose for these. Other rifles would serve the same alleged "purpose" and then some, being definitely more versatile than the Scout carbine.

I was not a Jeff Cooper fan, but for reasons unknown to me now, read his GUNS & AMMO material beginning in 1962. However, he had many disciples who were influenced by his preaching, whether it was of practical value or not. Those folks and/or the newschoolers provided a ready market for the Cooper carbine fad.

A lever action Marlin .30-30 would make an excellent “ scout “ rifle. And allows the magazine to be topped off without taking the gun off your shoulder.
A lot cheaper than some other guns too.

Interesting subject you brought up.

I think the "rifleman" has evolved. One time the Winchester Model 94 was enough for checking the Back 40. Now if your Ranch is close to the Mexican Border your Back 40 is more like the "Twilight Zone". So you should be well armed and prepared.

My Savage Scout (which the late Colonel frowned upon) is a handy little thing when it comes to whitetails in PA. My favorite deer rifle.
The LER scope takes a little getting used to, but with some practice, it does make a lot of sense. Especially when a quick shot is required. Off a benchrest, it shouldn't make much of a difference either way.

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Because of the metric system?

Col. Cooper said a lot of things that were sensible. He said a lot of things that make one scratch your head trying to figure the relevancy of it. There’s no doubt about his contributions to the handgunning sports and the art of self-defense using a firearm. He was a mixture of ideas and very opinionated about it.

Col. Cooper was not an advocate of the 5.56 class of calibers and the “mouse guns” that shot them. I think that had a part in his Scout rifle concept. I knew a former Gunsite instructor from the Cooper era and he never understood Cooper’s fascination with the concept.

I kinda wonder that since Cooper was also a gun writer that he had to continue to have ideas to discuss to stay relevant in a changing world.

I’ve got two Ruger Scouts, left hand action, in .223/5.56 and .308. Both are accessorized as the Colonel intended, including Ching slings. Reasonably accurate out to a couple hundred yards. One is definitely on the list of firearms to pack in the Jeep for the Zombie Apocalypse, most likely the former just for weight constraints of ammo.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I think a classic style Scout rifle with a straight pull action would be a step up, as it would be quicker and easier to operate. I never did find a use for one, but I shoot mainly S&W revos anyway.

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protocalldesign.com

Hunting rifle - .308:



Hunting rifle - .35 Whelen, yes, yes, it was an 8mm Mauser that I happily had defaced, rebarreled, etc.:



MSR - 5.56/.223:



Fighting rifle:

See MSR

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Come and take it!!

I never got the excitement and didn’t think much of it as a new concept.
Never liked LER scopes. Cooper should have stuck to 1911s. As far as I’m concerned Cooper was a salesman who created his own market.
Hunters in eastern woods have used various carbines before the Scout rifle was invented. It doesn’t require an expensive rig. Like somebody stated a
REM 600-660 makes a perfect rig.

What was his beef with the Savage interpretation?

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Release the Kraken

No photos handy, but I built my version on an 1895 Marlin in 45/70. Started with a Guide Gun, added the Luepold LER M8, rear peep sight, and a Galco Ching Sling.

It’s been a woods gun of mine for many years. Everything I’ve shot with it seemed impressed enough to lay down quickly.

The Remington 600 in .308 was the original scout rifle. He like it so much he had another made up in .350 Remington for bigger medicine, so to speak. Called it "baby"? "Thumper?" I have his book somewhere, I just lack the time and inclination to dig it out and crack it open.

The LER acope was a pretty handy idea for it's time....which was well before red dots, illuminated reticles and the like. I think it may have been one of those things you had to try to appreciate.

Here's a case in point for current times-

I'm currently considering a .450 Bushmaster bolt action. One is the Ruger Scout. Beautiful and cool looking gun. 6.5 lbs, and it'd set me back $1,300. There also the Ruger American. Literally half that price. 6 lbs. An extra $650 or so would go a long ways towards an optic and some ammo. The current lpvo and prism scopes are mighty handy, and address many items that the scout rifle was intended for. It don't getcha the Col. Cooper's Cool Kids Club patch, but I bet it would fill that scout role remarkably well for half the price.

I seem to recall the Savage Scout came along shortly after the Steyr he worked so hard with. Basically....an "inferior" copy of his genuine article. It seems the good Col. May have....lacked perspective at times. "You can't afford $2,500 for MY Scout rifle?! Well...quit being poor, dummy!"

I think the scout rifle was a good concept for it's time...but now the times have caught up.

I do regret that I never got to see Cooper's remarks when the AR started being chambered in .458 SOCOM and .50 BW...I'm sure he remained unimpressed.

"Absorb what is useful. Discard what is not. Add what is uniquely your own." Bruce Lee

Doesn't sound like you read Col Cooper's writings re: the Scout. He said it was a general purpose rifle that was good at a lot of things. Not necessarily the best for any one purpose. It would handle everything from varmints to 400 KG animals. It was the one gun you grabbed when you did not know what was going to happen. It was never intentioned to be a specific purpose rifle. A general purpose rifle whose defining attribute was "handiness"

I'll toot my own horn a little. I wrote this review of Cooper's "Art of the Rifle" for Survivalblog back in 2015: Book Review: “The Art of the Rifle” by Jeff Cooper, by J.S. - SurvivalBlog.com

I think the scout rifle concept "jumped the shark" long ago, especially with gun maker's marketing. Cooper advocated for simple, highly reliable designs that weren't overly specialized. Gun industry marketing tries very hard to force specialization in order to convince you to buy something new. "Oh you're going bear hunting? Well put away that .338 old son, that ain't enuff, lemme sell you this .458 Win Mag right over here..."

I mentioned in my write up that Cooper liked sporterized Krags and other milsurps. In his own book he doesn't delve much into the "scout rifle" at all. It's almost all fieldcraft and psychology. Y'know, how to shoot stuff, and all with calibers developed before most of us were born.

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Psalm 27:2

^^^^^^^^^ this exactly !

The problem with the Scout “rifle” (actually a carbine, IMO) is that it has never been produced in a version as Cooper intended. But, whether that would make a difference to most potential buyers is likely not much, if any.

Many of the original Scout design concepts were all but ignored by Steyr. They made a version that had a few good features, but failed miserably in others. It was/is too heavy, among other things, especially when judged against more conventional lightweight rifles on the market today. At the time, this left Cooper in the unenviable position of defending an essentially indefensible product.

Likewise, there were/are few optics available that provide the ~9” of eye relief necessary. Right now, the only product I could find is from Vortex.

I think the Scout concept is still relevant today. A lightweight, short-barreled rifle of .308-power is handy anywhere that shots are likely at 300 yards or less. I do find it difficult to see any advantage to the forward-mounted scope EXCEPT that it does make carrying the rifle at the balance point considerably more convenient, which is very worthwhile, to me. Whether the trade off favors the forward-mounted scope is arguable. I would not want to hang my hat on that point alone, but I’m not about to mount a telescope on the receiver of my Steyr. And note that the present US-made “Scouts” using huge detachable magazines completely negate balance point carry.

A long time ago, probably more than thirty-five years ago, I had a quasi-Scount assembled on a Model 70 Lightweight rifle, barrel shortened to 20-inches. It used the Burris 2-3/4x scope in Warne QD rings on custom bases. I never got around to providing iron back-up sights, mainly because I was mostly interested in experimenting with the forward optic. It worked ok, but the rifle only served to convince me of the handiness of carry it allowed. The jury remained out on the forward optic, and still is today.

At present, there are so many ultralightweight rifles in production weighing far less than the Steyr that one could fairly consider it some sort of interesting but outdated artifact from another era, which it is. That doesn’t mean it’s not still useful, if you have one.

I can think of a small handful of rifles, available now as standard production items, I’d much rather have, mounted with a suitable LPVO, and preferably with a slightly longer barrel. The nice features Steyr brought to the table (some might call them gimmicks) are just not critical to me. One could easily shave off 1 - 1.5 pounds, and also fire a more versatile and effective hunting cartridge (.30/06, for example), if desired.

So, no, I’d say since there is no real Scout rifle available today, I guess the concept has not gained any sort of relevance, beyond the idea of a short, light, handy, bolt-action .308. Those rifles are available, but like the Steyr, they don’t incorporate many of
features (gimmicks?) that Cooper desired.

In case you were wondering:

.30-06 Springfield - obviously, but nobody thinks about it much, 1906.

.270 Winchester - 1923

.308 Winchester - 1952

So, unless you're on the outside edge of baby booming these calibers are all older than you are. And, even then, it's only the .308 that you Boomers might be older than...........maybe...

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Come and take it!!

I like the idea of a light powerful rifle. That was the basis of Coopers philosophy. I don't care for barrel mounted scopes, though I understand his thoughts about being able to shoot with both eyes open so you keep your peripheral vision in play.

That being said, my decision was an AR platform .308 with an LPVO. It's a little heavy but I like semiautos and 20 round mags. It'll do.....

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Even older, even crankier....

Aren’t straight-pull actions noisy to operate when chambering the first round?
Could be a tactical disadvantage.

I don't HAVE a scout rifle, but the concept is not lost on me, being a carbine nut. I love light, handy rifles. It's a shame that they are losing popularity.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Here’s an article which I think is fairly accurate in its representation of Cooper’s requirements for a Scout rifle. The biggest problem I see with nonconformance is weight . . .

Cooper'''s Scout Rifle Concept: It'''s here to stay — Steemit

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Scout rifle...
One of my regrets.

I bought a Remington 600 in a fairly scarce caliber (.35 Rem) and couldn't leave well enough alone.

I dumped a bunch of money into a custom steel rib, a steel trigger guard, a custom 700 style bolt release, a Leupold Detacho mounting system and a Leupold IER scope.

I never hunted with it and would lose my shirt if I sold it.

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"I also cook."

That’s one slick scout rifle, go hunt with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The Remington 600s have always been appealing to me
I even bought 100 rounds or so of brass, bullets, and dies for one in .350 Remington that I doubt I'll ever get around to.

I sure do admire them though!

Yeah, that might have been better done on a mismatched Turkish Mauser with a $79 Fajen stock.

I don’t see anything to regret. Nice set-up for whitetails in our neck of the woods.

Jeff Cooper's solution to a problem that never existed............Mounting a long eye relief pistol scope halfway down the gun......Doesn't work for anything except play time. Sucks for hunting and quick pickup of the recticle on hunting game in the woods or open areas.
Idea is sorta like Steve McQueen's mare's leg.........All but useless. Except for Tactical Tommys.

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S&W Accumulator

I enjoyed Col. Cooper's musings in the gun rags, but I think the scout concept's continued development is not far behind the Bren Ten.

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- Change it back -

Seems to me the Bren Ten is the grandpappy of the entire slew of 10mm handguns we now enjoy. Seems a heckuva high compliment.

I didn't like Scouts at all, and never understood the point. Then I handled one, and got it.
The forward scope was QUICK on target. The best way I can explain it is it was like there was a reticle mounted at the front sight. Point the rifle at a target and my eye was looking at it through the reticle.

Yes, I know that's more or less how it works with any sighting system. Somehow to me, this seems different. I guess it feels like pointing with my finger but my finger has crosshairs.

For some, it might take a while to see it that way. Admittedly, I seem to have picked that up quicker than most. I have a feeling it's because I usually have trouble keeping both eyes open when shooting, but I practically can't make myself close one eye with this system. It forces me to do things right.

Is it worth the trouble? That's a good question. Scope choices are incredibly limited compared to conventional scopes.
Unless a rifle was built for a forward mounted scope, it is a project to make it happen.
Also, if you get early morning sun behind you it can wash out the scope.

But the forward scope is NOT A NECESSARY COMPONENT of a rifle for it to be called a Scout. This is a point many do not realize. A good set of peep sights count, per the definition by the guy who thought up the rifle.

Saying one doesn't like the Scout rifle because of the forward mounted scope is like saying you don't care for ARs because you dislike red dot sights.

Jeff Cooper just liked to hear himself talk, usually offering answers and opinions to questions nobody asked. It didn’t matter what the subject was.
Typically, he began with a vague premise, then he would start piling on abitrary qualifications or details. Occasionally, the result was mildly entertaining, even (unintentionally?) comedic. These long-winded monologues were a sort of mental “Rube Goldberg” process, and the outcome was usually a bit of a mess. The “scout rifle” is a perfect example.
If you ever watched “The Simpsons”, the best analogy would be the episode where Homer Simpson designs a new car. It was supposed to combine every feature and idea he thought would define the ultimate all-purpose vehicle. (See attached)
Of course, the resulting eyesore was a flop! Now, re-read the title posted for this thread!

In general terms, just about any good hunting rifle or military surplus carbine would suffice in the role. The crucial factor, conveniently overlooked, is a competent marksman.
To underscore the point, read “Never Surrender: My Thirty Year War” by Hiroo Onoda. He was a WWII Japanese holdout that fought a guerrilla war on Lubang Island from 1944-1974. He spent thirty years, mostly in the jungle, gathering intelligence, carrying out raids, hunting, and living off the land, all the while convinced Japan was still fighting and winning the war. His rifle? A 7.7mm Arisaka. (See third picture)
With that being said, most folks would be better served if they simply had a better background in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship, and perhaps some good instruction in smallbore or high power competitive shooting. From that point, you can make your own intelligent choices concerning stock shape, stock fitting, and sights.
You’d be much better off than listening to Cooper’s endless ramblings.
In fact, you’d be better off just reading “The Rifle Book” (1949) by Jack O’Connor. Besides his fondness for the Winchester 70 in .270, he was a strong advocate of handy carbines, such as his custom 7mm Mauser 98. (See the attached photo.)
That more than suffices in the “Scout rifle” role, and does it with a lot more class! Sure, you can quibble about details like iron sights. So, go ahead, add a Williams Foolproof receiver sight: problem solved 100 years ago!

As has already been pointed out, Jeff Cooper was a salesman. No surprise, therefore, that his chosen platform for promoting his rifle was “Guns & Ammo” magazine, home of articles such as: “Revolver vs. Auto: Which is Best” or “9mm vs. 45 ACP: for Service and Defense” and other such erudite fodder.
And, maybe, that was/is a significant point: to create a market demand for a (not so) new product.
But, more importantly, Jeff Cooper was a cultist. Beyond the hyperbole and salesmanship, from reading his books and articles, what he really sought was a band of worshipping followers.
He wasn’t interested in your ideas. He wanted you to adhere to his. And, hence, the “scout rifle”.

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I believe he felt it was an inferior representation of his idea. He was pretty thick with Steyr after a long process of bringing his vision to fruition.

Ironically, when he began discussing the concept, he felt there were quite a few styles and models that would make a good scout, but by the end, you had one of his originals, a Steyr .308, a Steyr .376, or a cheap knockoff "pseudo-scout."
That was the choices.

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Because of the metric system?

I had one, put one of the Leupold Scout Scopes on it. Definitely light and handy but somewhat brutal to shoot from the bench, even with Remington "Reduced Recoil" .308 loads, so away it went.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

But the forward mounted scope is to the stupid and ignorant, the ONLY feature that makes a scout rifle. Jeff Cooper's scout concept is only applicable to a rifleman who has already perfected the techniques described in his book, "The Art of the Rifle". Even then it is far more important to learn the anatomy of whatever you are hunting.

Cooper liked to hunt in South Africa and in the Veldt at the ranges encountered, the scout rifle is a bit more convenient in some ways.

Criticizing Jeff Cooper without understanding him is a current fad on the gun webs.

Kind Regards!
BrianD

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696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411

Out of all of the features Cooper specified for a scout rifle, the forward-mounted, long eye relief scope is the most out dated to me. A 2x or 3x prism optic would be great. So would any one of the many LVPOs available today.

I have a Springfield Armory M1A “Scout” with a Leupold FX II Scout scope. The forward mount is necessary to get a good cheek weld without blocking the rather violent action of that rifle. I like the setup a lot, but my Rossi R-95 (Marlin 336 clone) in .30-30 fits the “handy rifle good enough for nearly everything” concept better IMHO. I like the 2x Primary Arms prism on the Rossi better than the older Leupold “scout scope” because the eye box is very forgiving, it lets in more light, and it has an etched reticle with illumination added.

A Browning BLR takedown in .308 would be an excellent “scout rifle” but for the very limited magazine capacity. It’s lightweight and short for the barrel length. The action is very fast, and mine at least is nicely accurate.

Perhaps someone should tell Kevin Brittingham at Q to market his Fix rifle as a “Jeff Cooper scout rifle”. The reaction would be hilarious. However, the Fix actually fits virtually all of the parameters. It is lightweight. The “stock” is metal. The bolt throw is 90 degrees and the action is very quick. You can mount backup iron sights easily. It takes 20-round SR25 magazines. You can get a Fix chambered in .308. The catch is that the Fix is stupidly expensive for what it is.

Try hunting pre sunrise and post sunset with a scout setup and you'll be going home early. With a(good) conventional scope set with a 5-7mm exit pupil you can stay easily hunt those early and late hours.

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S&W Accumulator