I saw a Tisas Fatih last weekend at a local gun show and was almost impressed enough with it to buy it. But the matte finish, the wood grips and the squared off trigger guard similar to the Betetta 84FS didn’t quite move me. (Fatih means “conqueror” in Turkish, in case you are the curious type.)

It did however revive my interest in the Beretta 84 and in the 84BB in particular which have been showing up on the surplus police pistol market. I’m normally a “buy it after I see it in person” kind of guy but the local shows have been disappointing in terms of surplus or used firearms.

A quick internet search found several vendors selling them for more or less similar prices and claiming “excellent condition” with all of them having varying reviews and disagreement about what compromises “excellent condition”. Some of them have apparently arrived with significant dings and scratches as well as very worn finish.

I ordered one from PSA on Wednesday as they are more of less local being only 1 state away and the $349 price was on the lower end (and $50 less than a new Tisas Fatih).

It arrived today (Friday) and while I’d be more inclined to call it “very good” condition cosmetically speaking, it is indeed in excellent mechanical condition.

It shows some typical holster wear with some thinner bluing on the sharp edges of the slide and safety levers, as well as some worn anodizing on the edges of the alloy frame.the sights were worn almost shiny so they got touched up with some cold blue to improve the sight picture. The white dot on the front sight and the white square on the rear sight will need to be refreshed. Over all that is consistent with other European law enforcement surplus .380 ACP and .32 ACP pistols I have acquired that show evidence of being carried but rarely fired.

It needed a good cleaning and oiling, but cleaned up nice.





——

I have had a Beretta 80X for several months and I like it a lot. The DA trigger is exceptionally light and smooth by DA pistol standards. With the excellent trigger, weight, and substantial grip dimensions it is an excellent shooting .380 ACP pistol.

However, I’ve never been real thrilled with the rails or 84FS style squared off trigger guard. I’m of the opinion that lights on a concealed carry handgun are just not a great idea.

I also still prefer the curved back strap of the classic Beretta Cheetah pistols compared to the straight back strap of the 80X.

Beretta claims that the 80X and 84 magazines are not interchangeable but they sure seem to interchange just fine on my pistols. We’ll see how they each function, particularly with hollow points, in each handgun. Beretta claims the magazine follower and feed ramp in the 80X were optimized to feed hollow points. There is some difference in the body of the magazines with more clearance under the feed ramp in the 80X magazine, but the feed ramps look identical and there is only a very minor difference in the followers.

I suspect Beretta says they are not compatible and gives them different part numbers to avoid potential legal issues for both Beretta and its customers when selling the 10 round version of the 80X in ban states.







The 80X has removable front and rear sights and theoretically would have better after market sight options including tritium night sights than the fixed front sight 84BB.

Unfortunately the 80X comes optics ready with the rear sight incorporated in the optics plate. And of course no one sells an aftermarket tritium sight in that configuration (at least yet).

The biggest advantage of the older 84BB is that it is designed to be fired as either a DA/SA pistol carried hammer down on a loaded chamber or carried cocked and locked in condition 1, an option not available on the 80X. The 84BB consequently also has larger safety levers that are easier to hit with the thumb making it very practical to carry in condition 1. That makes up for the heavier DA trigger pull.

This one doesn’t have a typical Beretta date code in the serial number and is marked IT23 indicating when it was proofed for civilian sale.

The lack of a Beretta date code is typical on 84s used in military and police service. Consistent with that, it does have the G.F. “Guardia di Finanza” stamp. The Guardian di Finanza is not surprisingly a law enforcement arm of the Italian Ministry of Finance responsible for dealing with financial crime and smuggling, similar to our treasury department.

However it has also evolved into Italy's primary agency for suppressing the illegal drug trade in Italy's territorial water, borders, airports and customs entry points.

—-

$349 turned into $394 after NC tax and shipping and then a $35 transfer fee at my local gun shop, so $429 total. That sounds like a bit more than the $399 for the Tisas clone but that difference drops to just $3 after NC tax is applied. It’s also a Beretta and should hold its value well where the Tisas would take a 1/3rd hit in value as soon as it was out the door and be unlikely to get it back.

I looked at both Beretta and Tesas bought the Tesasused (as new)for less than the Beretta . it does have the frame safety ( no( decocker). but i like the 1911 cocked & locked feature It has a F.P.block also While i was at it i found a 80 series parts kit with everypart except the frame in 32 acp cal.The slide & barrel required a bit of file fitting and now functions perfectly .Had to buy 32 cal,mags they fit & feed without any problems
makes a fun shooter in 32 acp. might make a defense gun when converted to .380 ,Not completely sold on that USE though

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age is just a number

I bought a Beretta Model 81 in .32 ACP a decade or so ago imported by CAI as police surplus. It’s the .32 ACP version of the 84 to the point that you can swap calibers by swapping the barrel and magazine.

As a straight Model 81 it lacks a firing pin pin safety.





The firing pin safety, shorter extractor and serrated front and back straps came along with the “B” suffix.

The “BB” versions added more slide serrations, a slightly larger diameter recoil spring and a guide rod with a nub on the back, and larger sights with a white dot and post.

The F version added a squared off trigger guard, a chrome plated chamber and barrel, a safety decocker lever, and the Bruniton finish like the 92F released around the same time.

The FS version added an improved decocking lever that could not get stuck in the half way position.

I've always liked those autos. Wasn't aware you could carry them C&L. Is there a hammer-drop, or do you do it the old-fashioned way?

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Because of the metric system?

The 84, 84B and 84BB all have a conventional safety where you manually decock the hammer.

The 84F, 84FS and 80X all have a decocker and cannot be carried cocked and locked.

I bought one when PSA first offered them @399 Thought about another, but, nah.

Looks almost like new after cleaning up, touching up a few spots with black, scrubbing the grips, and some kroil on the screws.

Out of the box.



Aimsurpus had 32’s just recently.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

I've been hunting for a 82 for some time (dumb magazine laws in WA say no-no to the 81's 12 rounder). I have lots of .32 but no .380 and want something larger than a mousegun. But the ones on GB consistently sell for $550 or more which just seems high to me.

I would greatly prefer a Benelli B77, but those are MUCH harder to find over here in the States.

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Psalm 27:2

I was lucky enough to get a surplus 82 cheap several years ago.

They do get imported as surplus now and then but it’s hard to predict when and the longer they have been out of service the less likely there is to be another run of surplus 82s, or any of the Cheetahs for that matter.

very nice-- good purchase

I got one of these a few years ago also on a Surplus trade in deal through Sportsman's. It was about $400. Appeared unfired. Various sources said they were traded in by the Italian version of the IRS, but who knows...It's a nice gun and suitable mostly for collections now. If you like Beretta guns or have a 92, you probably will want one of these too. They look cool, shoot well, and are accurate. Enjoy it!

Unfortunately, with its semi-rimmed case and pressure limits, there is essentially no chance of a resurgence of the .32ACP like with the .380, even with modern bullet construction which makes it far more effective than the obsolete 71gr FMJ. The 30 Super Carry is the spiritual successor but seems to be going the way of the .41AE, .32NAA, etc.

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Psalm 27:2

I have a few .32 ACP pistols including a very recent Beretta Tomcat. Walther has also started making a PPK/S in .32 ACP again.



But in general I agree with you. In the US people are cartridge phobic enough over the .380 ACP and asking for wide acceptance of the .32 ACP is a bit of a reach.

That’s unfortunate as the .32 ACP achieves the same penetration as the .380 ACP with a non expanding bullet, just with a lighter bullet (and usually one more in the magazine). This is a hard cast 75 gr round nose flat point at a mild 764 fps.





With a 60 gr XTP and a 3.8” barrel it will achieve 1000 fps, demonstrates acceptable expansion, and comes up just short of 12” of penetration (11.5”).







Rim lock with the semi rimmed .32 ACP does pose some limited concern, but it’s easy to avoid with due diligence is loading the magazine.

This is the newest Tisa Fatih .380. Changed the trigger guard and gave it nice wood grips. But you sure cannot go wrong with the Beretta

Scary thing about that is they use the same recoil spring. This has me wondering is the 81 over-sprung, or is the 84 under-sprung and that explains its almost 9x19 amount of muzzle flip and recoil. I was very unimpressed by the 84 I tried.

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Release the Kraken

I like my 380ACP 84B a lot. It’s accurate, handy and with 13+1 capacity, there’s enough firepower. I keep it sprung with a 16# recoil spring to handle heavier bullets (typically 95 to 100 grain). This saves beating up the frame and peening over the guide rod channel. That is a problem with the 84B model that was improved upon with the 84BB and subsequent models. There’s the mag “safety” but that’s easierly disengaged. I would prefer a de-cocker but you can’t have everything. I’m looking and shopping for a 32 barrel for it, more for fun range shooting then as a SD cartridge but finding a drop in barrel at a reasonable cost is next to impossible. One day maybe, but a 32ACP barrel for now is pretty much non-existent.

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"Your other right........."

I just ordered a Beretta Model 84BB from PSA. $299 plus the usual extras. I hope to get it next week some time.

You folks have really got my interest stirred up. I’ve been trying to choose a quality 32 that my wife may find usable. She wants a small pistol for her defense. My daughter has a 380 EZ, but the recoil bothers the Wife’s arthritis too much. I had 32 Long J frame, but she didn’t go for the wheel gun and I kinda wanted more than the “5 for sure”, so it’s gone. I’ve been using a KelTec P32 for a while and it’s ok, but no safety so, wife is not yet comfortable with it. I imagine the lack of a decocker would be a turn off on the Beretta. I was not familiar with the F and FS models or the possibility of arts exchanges between the models. Could you advise about the possibility of using an 84FS with 32 ACP barrel, spring, and magazines to achieve a 32 with a safety/decocker? I’ve been a DAO user ever since I began my transition from revolvers. Hope I wasn’t too long winded. Thanks in advance for any guidance! We can use the PM if you think we’re hijacking this thread to far off course.

Vey nice, OP! Thanks for the history lesson on the model.

Interesting post. I have seen the recent adds for the 84BB and have been on the edge of ordering one. My question is how does it differ from the 83BB? I have one of those and don't see a difference in pictures.

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Kevin in Oregon

The 83BB has a single column 7 round magazine, and a 4" barrel.

The 84BB has a double column 13 round magazine, and a 3.81" barrel.

Both pistols are .380 ACP caliber.

I’m not super hunting, but the tip up barrel (86?) has always been of interest. Seems it would be handy for weaker grips.

Warren Sear, Thank you. I had to go check and I have a CZ M 83, my mistake. Actually my Beretta is a M85BB double stack .380. How does that differ from M 84BB?

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Kevin in Oregon

The M85BB has a single column 8 round magazine, and a 3.81" barrel. This pistol is in .380 ACP caliber.

Yes, I kind of like them too. You are referring to the Model 86. It is built quite differently than other 80 Series Berettas in order to accommodate the pivoting barrel. This model was only made for a few years, so it can be hard to find, and expensive. It did not sell well, which is hard to understand, since I think it was a great idea, although I was not interested in them way back then. They had a single column magazine, but I don't know the capacity, and I don't know if the M83 or M85 magazine is compatible or not.

Girsan makes a very similar model that is currently in production called the MC-14T. It uses a double column 13 round magazine, so that would be kind of nice. I saw these for sale earlier tonight on the www. I don't remember the price.

edit to add: The world of 380 ACP pistols is relatively new to me. I didn't take the caliber seriously, but then bought my first one about two years ago, a Glock Model 42. I like Beretta pistols, and I stumbled across this thread recently, which got me interested in the Beretta M84BB. I looked around and found one on the PSA website and ordered it. It was supposed to arrive at my local gunshop today, but got delayed until tomorrow. Tomorrow is Thanksgiving, so I would imagine I can get it Friday. I am excited to shoot it.

I hand load 102 grain round nose home cast lead bullet ammo for 380 ACP caliber.

I give up. I think i better order one of the m84BB while they are available. I carry my 85BB sometimes, like the caliber, but a few more rounds is nice. Thank you Warren Sear.

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Kevin in Oregon

Well, half of the fun is just finding out exactly what it is you are looking for!

My M84BB arrived today. I am very happy with it, although I have not shot it yet. Mine was supposed to be "very good" condition, but really should be rated "excellent ". There are some very slight cosmetic exterior flaws, but like new inside. Obviously shot very little. Fantastic bargain at $299.

Mine was made in 1986. The slide is not blued, but is painted with something that resembles Cerakote.

I hope to get it to the range next week.

(edited for better pictures)

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M92 and M84BB compared.

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Fantastic gun/s, though snappy in .380
I have the .32 version and it's really sweet.

I caved. Drove the 30 miles to town and ordered an 84BB from local gun store. I plan to carry it some and just ordered the $299 version, as it will start showing holster wear in short time. I ordered with insurance, should ship Monday, two day air. Hope to have it by Thursday.

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Kevin in Oregon

What holster are you going to use?

Congratulations on a wise purchase. That has to be the best deal ever on a high quality, classy, well built pistol.

I bought one of the original 84’s several years ago. It was an Israeli police surplus pistol and was mechanically excellent and cosmetically very good with some edge wear but not excessive. I’ve shot quite a bit with it and never had a malfunction and it’s very accurate. It’s a bit larger than some of the new 9’s but I find it fits my hands very comfortably and I really like the 14 round capacity. Recoil is lighter than 9mm which is a plus with arthritis in my hands and wrists. Another plus, I like an all steel construction and the additional weight buffers recoil.

I carry it when traveling some and carry it in a Fanny pack. Actually I’d like to carry it more and am thinking of getting a custom leather belt pouch made for it.

When discussing the Beretta Cheetah line of handguns, I always find myself heading back to this table to refresh my memory.

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I just picked up an 84 from AIM Surplus, went with one of the X-Grade as I wasn't concerned with finish wear. Since I live close by I was able to go into their showroom and give the gun a good going over. Mechanically it seems to be excellent, great bore and little internal wear. Exterior was actually better than I expected. Hoping for a nice day so I can get out to my friends range and try it out. Been cold and windy, not good weather for my bones!

Warren Sear, I won't know the holster until I receive the pistol. I have one I use for 84BB and CZ83, and one that only fits CZ83. Go figure. I also found in safe tonite a Beretta 81 (?) In .32 acp. This has been fun!

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Kevin in Oregon

Thanks for that guide Moo Moo.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

I’m a huge fan of the 84 and its more svelte sibling, the 85. Here is one of these accurate and dependable pistols beside that standard of concealed carry, the J Frame:

I shot my new-to-me Beretta M84BB for the first time today. Temperature was 18°, which is a little cold to be shooting bare handed.

The pistol functioned perfectly with Remington factory hollowpoint ammo, and my cast bullet handloads, although the slide did not always lock back on the last shot. My handloads are just under maximum listed in the Lyman 4th Edition cast bullet manual. I used Bullseye and HP-38 powder with 102 grain round nose bullets cast from a LEE mold.

I shot about 200 rounds, at which point my hands got too cold. Not a single malfunction, other than the slide did not always stay open after the final shot, which is not a concern to me. I could try increasing the powder charge to see if that makes a difference.

edit to add; A UpLULA magazine loader is a must for loading this pistol!

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Yes, definitely "snappy in .380"!

Also, even with the added serrations to the slide (compared to the previous model), the slide is still hard to grasp and pull back.

Good information, Warren Sear. I am getting arthritis in my lower thumb joints and find it more difficult to rack slides. I have a few of the Magula loaders and am impressed with how easy they make reloading magazines, from ar-15, 45 auto, just all of them. We have been below 15 degrees recently, warming up to 34, know what you mean about shooting in the cold.

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Kevin in Oregon

Here is the holster I made for my Beretta M84. Actually it is a modification of a holster I made for another pistol maybe 10 years ago. I no longer remember what pistol that was, but I was able to add some stitching and with a little re-molding and trimming here and there, it is a perfect fit for this pistol.

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I'm excited. Got the 84BB today. I did not pay the extra $30 for condition, but this pistol is almost like new. Slight blemish on top of barrel and small nick in mag well entrance. Sn: Y201xxY. Anyone know the year made? Won't have time to shoot it as I am packing up for a gun show this weekend. Going to have to look for a holster. I like pancake style with a snap. I will have to research who makes them.

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Kevin in Oregon

It should have the Italian proof house stamps on the frame which includes a letter code inside a box. This code is the date of proof which serves to gives you the year of manufacture. The dates for these codes can be found online.

My understanding is that Italian pistols manufactured for the police and military were not proofed, and did not get the two-letters-in-a-box proof mark with which American shooter are so familiar.

When pistols such as the Beretta M84BB were declared surplus and shipped to the US for civilian sale, Italian law required them to first be proofed. The date of manufacture for these pistols is on the left side of the trigger guard (at least on mine), and the proof stamp and date are placed on the right side of the frame and slide.

Date of manufacture (1985) stamped on the left side of the trigger guard on my M84.

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Proof date (Italy 2024) stamped on the right side of my M84 slide.

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The commercial proof stamp on the right side of my M84 receiver.

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Here is a typical commercial proof stamp, in this case on the right side of my Beretta M92 receiver. CF indicates 2010 date of manufacture.

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