I own a vintage single action Colt revolver. Colt archive research ID's gun as shipped to Sears in 1906. Not sure of the prior travel history of this gun other than my father owned it for as long as I can remember. Well over 70 years. I don't think it has ever had all that many rounds put through it. After my fathers death I took his guns & used up the couple of boxes of .32-20 ammo he had left. Since then I have only been able to locate a small quantity of additional ammo. Cowboy loads from Georgia Arms. Now, Midway has some in stock but it is .32-20 +P for rifle. I'm not sure if this should be used in my gun, even though it is in very fine condition.

Anyone have any experience here?

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It is a colt single action and should be "safe" but I would not use "+P" loads. The springs and small parts are over 100 years old and anything that breaks will be hard to find, and no longer original. If you do not reload now, I would suggest getting a simple reloader and loading up black powder or light smokeless loads with 32-caliber round balls (00 buckshot). I personally would put the well-cared-for beauty on the shelf and be happy with cowboy loads very sparingly. One replaced part might set you back a thousand dollars in value.

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Kind regards, Heinz

I would personally buy the Remington ammo that Midway has in stock and NOT the +P .32-20, to shoot in your Colt.

The Remington ammo is safe in a good condition handgun.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Vintage Colt SA 32-20 , made circa 1906 ...

I wouldn't shoot any +P ammo in the old girl ... she's Old !

My Daddy would tell you ... "Boy , don't be acting the fool ! "

It may not damage the gun ... but I would rather be safe than sorry .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

HSM in Montana has a cowboy competition load that might work for you.

You have a nice looking Colt there.

I would not. Besides, rifle ammo will have a slower burning powder, and accuracy may suffer. Similar to 30 carbine…I always reload for that.

1905 was transition to smokeless powders for Colt Saa. Does yours have a VP proofmark on trigger guard?

The Remington .32-20s are the right choice for your old Colt, IMO. Beyond that, the .32-20 is not difficult to load for and doing so will save you some money if you will shoot much. You’ll find it’s common to find .32-20 rifle data published separately from .32-20 pistol data. Stick with the pistol data. Economical versions of basic reloading equipment are not all that expensive. You might find you enjoy the hobby.

A hard NO on +P! You won't blow a Colt SAA up with it, but it will be very hard on it, and stretch things.
The big co's (Rem, Win, etc.) only do seasonal/occasional runs of some of this older stuff. With the overall ammo shortage the past few years, I don't think they've produced ANY (.25-20, .218 Bee, .32-20, .32 S&W, .38 S&W, the old Colt calibers, etc.). It should come back eventually.
Until then, hit up any gunshows. You'll probably find (but pay for) some.
I've seen some of those calibers sell at online auctions for as high as $2/round! Glad I have a stockpile, and can reload pretty much everything I shoot.
Just in .32-20, I have 3 first gen SAA's, numerous pre-war S&W M&P's (including a couple target models), a Marlin 1889, a Remington Rolling block, and I'm probably leaving a few out.

Good luck!

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Good grief!

$103 for a 50 round box of new Remington standard lead .32-20!

Those Buffalo Bore loads are going to get somebody in trouble. 2000 fps from a rifle and 1400 from a revolver with 115 gr is HOT. I sure would NOT run them in my 1899 HE.

I'm in the camp of anything made before WWII should be treated with kindness. That said the Colt SAA was approved for use with .38-44/.38 Special High Speed ammo in the 1930s. They were probably running in the 25-29k psi range. Anyone know what the rifle rated .32-20 was rated at?

I've got a pair of 2005 vintage Colt SAAs in .32-20 and a FA 97. Don't worry about what I put in them at all.

Bob

Buffalo bore advertises their 32-20+p at 1200fps out of a 4 3/4" SAA. I might hesitate to run those through a BP Era gun,
But a smokeless proofed SAA wouldn't have a problem. We are talking about .32 h&r magnum ballistics
They chambered them in .357 magnum, after all.

Anything Colt made they warranted as safe for smokeless powder from 1900 onward. They only later started adding the "VP" stamp when consumers demanded to see something.

Nonetheless I would avoid +P ammunition in a revolver that old. Other, safer options exist.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

It is listed as a “rifle” load but this looks like standard pressure lead. The Buffalo Bore + P loads look comparable to the old jacketed true rifle loads, definitely not advisable for any older handgun.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Skeeter Skelton wrote of firing "Rifles Only" ammunition out of the 32-20 SAA he bought in 1946 when he was discharged from the Marines. Said it kicked too much, didn't hit were it was aimed-and didn't recommend it.

I agree...save +P .32-20 ammo for long guns.

I’ll say ‘WHY’ before I say ‘NO!’

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Curious what people here so adamant against any factory +p think is going to happen.
The .357 magnum was a factory clambering for 1st gen SAA's.
There have been many early smokeless SAA's converted to .357 magnum that also don't have a reputation for beating themselves to death
A smokeless .32-20 cylinder is exceptionally strong given the amount of metal surrounding each cartridge.
A smokeless SAA frame that can easily handle the conversion to .357 magnum can also easily handle .32 H&R pressure.

The .32-20 high speed cartridges of yore didn't blow up guns. They stuck bullets in the barrel because smokeless powder was a new thing and the new, slow burning powder used proved to burn inconsistently in revolvers.

So I'm really not sure where this idea came from, that a .32-20+p is so far beyond what a smokeless SAA can handle, or that it will beat it to death⁸

A smokeless proofed gun that is capable of handling the .357 magnum is not going to choke on a .32 h&r magnum-level .32-20.

There is no standard for .32-20 +P; the Buffalo Bore stuff is an overload to whatever they think a "modern" gun will handle. Read their caveats
32-20 WINCHESTER +P Hard Cast

Although SAAMI considers .32-20 a rifle cartridge, all that is standardized is the low end load at 16000 CUP, about like a .38 Special. The expensive Remington or somebody's "cowboy" load is what you need.

Remember, this is a 1906 gun, not a 1930s "first generation good enough for .357 magnum."

This caveat?
"use this high-performance ammo only in firearms made with barrel steel designed for smokeless powder."


Can you give a single example of a failure of an early smokeless frame rechambered to .357? We know there were many such conversions.
Better yet, can you give an example of an early smokeless 32-20 SAA failing from the use of high velocity "rifle" .32-20 loads?

Great subject.

I have hand loaded smokeless loads in the 32-20 for both the SAA and the Frontier DA Colt but only for post 1905-1907 examples. (Modern)

Elmer Kieth in the early 1900’s would hand load them up to 1500 FPS in the SAA safely using 2400 powder. To be fair though he did blow up his fair share of SAA’s. However, he never had any reported or documented problems with the 32 WCF on a SAA platform.

Introduced in 1884 on the SAA platform it was designed as part of the “Dual purpose” Frontier cartridge that would chamber in both the Rifle and pistol. Very popular caliber it is often seen in reloading tools of that era. Arguably the “most popular “ cartridge standing along side the 44WCF. Extremely common on Ideal tools. So it is safe to say it was hand loaded A LOT back in the day.

This is probably the one cartridge that I have a lot of tolerance for regarding pressure loads. Extremely thick cylinder, forcing cone and barrel I have never seen or heard of one being damaged. All the guns I have seen over the years damaged I have never seen a 32/20 SAA damaged but I have seen many put together so clearances can be an issue.

Also mixing black powder parts with modern parts can also be an issue since they were not serial numbered and antique parts seem to find their way onto smokeless frames.

Still, there is a lot of metal on these old guns. They are noticeably heavier in the hand as compared to a 45cal. Pretty safe caliber to shoot if not “the safest”.

Murph

How strange, we went for years with every gunzine article and many www posts warning "Don't shoot high velocity "rifle only" .32-20s in your revolver." Now we have an even higher velocity "+P" that doesn't trouble the board.

Phil Sharpe stopped at 28000 "pre-CUP" for a top rifle velocity of 1760 fps. Buffalo Bore says 2000 fps. No doubt they have Modern Powder for Modern Steel. but I wonder at their chamber pressure.

As Jeff Cooper said, you will do as you think best.

This is a common misconception about the .32-20 "high speed" loads and why they have the reputation they do.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the old high speed loads didn't blow up guns, they werent overpressure for the guns.
They used an early slow burning smokeless powder that burned inconsistently in handguns and often the powder burned too slow with TOO LOW PRESSURE such that the pressure curve was often so slow that the bullet would stick in the barrel while the pressure vented out the cylinder gap.
This is why you find many vintage 32-20 revolvers with cut down or bulged barrels but I have yet to see even or even hear of an example of a 32-20 revolver with a stretched frame or grenaded cylinder.

Thank you for response. I'm starting to consider shelving this gun & just continue to shoot the S&W .357. That's a 1936 item.

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Thank you. I did find some available on back order from Choice Ammo in Montana. Most places just say out of stock. They should add "forever" to that statement. I'll try HSM too.

I use this forum 1st Generation Colt Single Action Army | Colt Forum for my Colt SAA questions.

I've heard that one too.
Phil Sharpe showed a load for .32-20 revolver with Sharpshooter, several with SR80 but not the Lightning or 2400 he used for a rifle.
Sharpshooter came out in 1897, Lightning in 1899 and were used in factory loads for some calibers. .32-20 HV? Who knows.

I am sure Buffalo Bore uses powders which avoid that "slowdown" because they show a 115 at 1200 fps from a 4.75" Army. Wonder what vintage.

The old Winchester HV load was listed as ".32 Model 92 Special." They didn't want you shooting in in an 1873.

I can't say what Mr. Sharps reasons are, but one of the issues I've run into with the .32-20 and slower powders in revolvers are the inevitable unburnt powder kernals working under the extractor star and tying up the gun.
I load 9gr. of IMR 4227 under a 90gr. bullet with a heavy crimp to keep the pressure curve long and gentle in my vintage guns, and even with a heavy crimp the burn is so slow it is still leaving unburnt powder in a 20" barrel but is almost fully combusted out of a 24" barrel. But that same load is almost unusable in a revolver not because of the velocity but because of the amount of unburnt powder it leaves.

There were similar light bullet factory HV loads made for rifles, in .38-40 and .44-40. I have never fired any of the long-obsolete .32-20 HV loads, but I have made up and fired some fairly warm .32-20 handloads using SR-80. Yes, I have a nearly full can of it. The story I have heard is that firing HV .32-20 in old revolvers may result in splits in the barrel forcing cone area. True or not I can’t say, never having seen an example of such a split.

It is HIGHLY unlikely you will find ANY 32-20 ammo from a name brand manufacturer that will damage either you or your gun. That's because they have Risk Managers on staff with a healthy respect for the Paintiffs Bar, one or more of whom who will sue the pants off of them if they do---and they will win that suit (hands down)!!

That's the bottom line on ANY commercially made ammo (including +P---which is a scam to separate you from your money)----just as are the guns "Rated For +P" !!

Ralph Tremaine

I do not understand the reason for the original post. Midway lists 5 manufacturers .32-20 ammunition, Remington, Winchester, HSM, Black Hills and Buffalo Bore. Of these only Buffalo Bore is classified as +P. All of the others are standard pressure loads which are perfectly a acceptable for OPs 1906 SAA Colt.

Buy any of the first four and you have no worries. Just avoid the Buffalo Bore.

Don't be concerned about the "rifle" designation. .32-20 is and always has been a rifle cartridge, and Remington still chooses to refer to it as such!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Sure were a lot of Colts and S&W made in 32-20. A lot more than rifles I'd bet.

The .32 Winchester, aka .32 WCF, .32-20, was originally chambered in the 1873 Winchester rifle. It was adopted by Colt, also in 1873 for their Single Action Army, and by S&W in 1899 for the K-frame also chambered for .38 Special. The fact that there may have been more revolvers made for the cartridge does not alter the fact it was originally, and still is, a rifle cartridge. It was also chambered in Marlin rifles as the .32-21. SAAMI classifies it as a rifle cartridge too.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

I have a Smith & Wesson in 32-20 and it is a nice gun, pleasure to shoot but expensive as all get out.

Mine shipped in October 1921 per Roy Jinks, S&W Historian. My serial number is 105093, and it is my understanding that S&W started heat treating their cylinders for this gun with s/n 81287 and it is further my understanding that if you do have the heat treated cylinder then the Cowboy Action 115 gr. lead flat nose ammo as manufactured by HSM (Hill States Munitions) is safe for use.

I don't know about Colt's at all...were they heat treated? starting when?, etc.

One last thing, I had the gun over a year before last Christmas when I was gifted 3 boxes of HSM ammo by the wife. All she told me about the costs was "don't ask". I did see the receipts later and this stuff is bucoo expensive, approaching $2.50 per round from the one source she found which was a vintage ammo dealer. IF you see ANY of this ammo at Midway or others at $1.00 per round or a little more...you need to grab it quick because 2 minutes later it will be gone!

HSM uses new Starline Brass and loads the ammo at their factory making it "factory ammo".

I have shot only a couple cylinders through my S&W and those were shot at the only outdoor range in my area as no indoor ranges will allow lead ammo at all....so there is that to consider if applicable to where you live.

The experts are right............a VERY good case for starting a new hobby....HANDLOADING!

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Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

Last week, I contacted Georgia Arms about resuming production of .32-20 ammunition. I received an e-mail back from them:

"Hello! Thank you for reaching out to us. We will more than likely run those again, however it will depend on when we are able to get all the components for it. Please just keep trying us back."

Dee Hunter

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I have a friend who was a rookie police officer in Sun Valley, Idaho before it was the big ski mecca it is now. When he started he was advised to get a .32/20 because “that’s what all the boys use”. He got an M&P and loaded with the whatever ammo they gave him, which he thought was “rifle only” stuff. I bet it was a common practice and may account for the .32/20’s reputation to “shoot clean through a man”, as the blues song says.

When I have a desire to shoot one of my .32/20s (both K frames) I’ll use .32 S&W Long if I don’t have any proper stuff on hand. Yes, it works. The cases are goners afterwards but I don’t reload anymore so it matters not to me.

It wouldn’t bother me to shoot the BB stuff in a Colt Single Action. A Colt Police Positive would be a different matter.

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Rule of law, not a man.

"I don't know about Colt's at all...were they heat treated? starting when?, etc."

Colt used different steel. When WW I started and there weren't enough 1911s to go around, the US Gov't turned to Colt and S&W to build .45 ACP revolvers.

The S&W 1917s were required to be heat treated; the Colts weren't.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

As for higher pressure .32-20 loads, Brian Pearce wrote an article on .32-20+P loads in the April-May 2023 issue of Handloader magazine. I'll quote a bit of it here:

[emphasis added]

If you notice the Midway ammo is out of stock w/ no estimation of availability. Too many gun people say don't use rifle designated ammo. in the old SAA. I have found some cowboy loads anyway.

I would not even consider shooting +P, or rifle only ammo, or any ammo with jacketed bullets in my Colt Police Positive Special in 32-20 WCF, made in 1911.

The only ammo I shoot in it is my own handloads, consisting of 92 grain plain base lead round nose bullets over 4.0 grains of Unique. This combo gives about 900 fps.

If I want more power I go to a bigger gun.

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Yes, the .32 Long cartridge will work in a .32-20 chamber. I once knew a guy who was fatally shot with a .32 Long bullet fired from a .32-20 revolver. It was an accident, he and a friend were butchering a cow. I never knew the details of how it happened as I was not present.

Not always.

My ‘86 Ruger BH will put them on a nickel at 25 benched with Lake City.

I worked two different murders where the offenders used .32-20 revolvers loaded with .32 Long ammo.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

The Colt SAA is a very strong action! Having said that, it will be a lot more pleasent to plink with standard pressure ammo. As others said, it would be worth considering reloading, but there is usually no problem finding factory ammo. Here is the lowest cost ammo I just found on the Ammoseek website:

HSM 32-20 WIN COWBOY ACTION 115GR FLAT POINT ROUND NOSE 50RD BOX | Maryland Munitions Inc

Don't give up on shooting that old gal! They are a lot of fun to shoot!

Failure? Seriously? The gun doesn't have to "fail" for you to destroy it. Shooting proof loads in it will stretch the frame. It's NOT a safety issue, though it could become one.

As stated above, there is no such thing as 32-20 +P.
It's marketing BS. 32-20 is a low pressure cartridge. Keep it that way.

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I've still got it made.

Proof loads?
Nobody is talking about firing "proof loads".
As I said,
Show me a .32-20 with a frame sprung from firing factory loads of any kind.

Frankly, I wouldn't shoot anything in it! Display it or keep it in the safe, but don't take any chances. Not meant to be an insult, but if you have to come on a forum like this and ask a no-brainer question like that then your knowledge of ammo is limited enough to not want to buy anything modern to shoot in it. Enjoy it for what it is - a beautiful piece of engineering from a bygone era and family heirloom - rather than taking a chance on destroying it. Good luck, Merry Christmas!

A perfect candidate for handloading.

Starline occasionally has brass in stock; buy a few hundred rounds and you’ll never look back.

Sweet SAA, btw.

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Richard

Yes, definitely shoot it. Use low powered handloaded ammo made with home-cast lead bullets, and it will last forever.

I have a 44 caliber German Reichsrevolver Model 1883 that is a family heirloom. I shoot my own cast bullet low powered ammo in it. BTW, this is a black powder handgun, but I have never shot a single round of black powder ammo in it; only smokeless.

My grandfather brought with him when he emigrated to the US from Germany.

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1st generation .32 WCF Colt SAA. Mfg'd in 1923. It's one of the most accurate handguns i own.

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Oneeyedpete posted a link to what he said was the lowest 32-20 ammo he could find and he saw that on ammoseek. Maryland Munitions has the lowest possible credibility factor there is (2.7 out of 100) indicating that it is probably a scammer. I don't like to blast any seller, but I hate scammers and have been a victim before so I will tell you as far as I know NO LEGITIMATE SELLER has 32-20 HSM factory ammo for less than $1.00 per round, and MOST that do truly have ANY in stock are in the $2.50 to $3.00 per round area for true HSM 32-20 Cowboy Action ammo.

Just as always....use due diligence and look at reviews, Google if "Company X is a scam?"

If someone on here has actually dealt with this firm and had good experiences than please post a note about same and I will stand corrected, but there is even a warning that clicking on their website could bring a trogan malware into your computer.

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Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570