otis24
Member
The guy who traded me his Colt Trooper has a 1916 Mauser .308. Not very familiar with these but for $200 it’s worth picking up just to have. Anyone have any information on these? Safe to shoot? What ammo?
1916 Mauser .308
- Thread starter otis24
- Start date
Most of those old Mausers were converted by the Spanish military to 7.62 X 51mm NATO for possible use in a full mobilization/WWIII conflict. Unscrupulous importers marked them as .308 Winchester. The safety rule used to be to not shoot them with .308 Winchester, since it is loaded to higher pressure than the NATO round. There may also be chamber/freebore differences. Remember, Spain only rechambered them for emergency wartime use with the lower pressure military round. If you have one and want to shoot it, use only the military round or very low end reloads.
Edit: Frank de Haas in his seminal book on bolt action rifles specifically recommends against this conversion.
Edit: Frank de Haas in his seminal book on bolt action rifles specifically recommends against this conversion.
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THE PILGRIM
Member
I raise, 12 foot pole.
.455_Hunter
Member
Even the the 1916's in 7mm develop issues over time. I would STRONGLY discourage use of one in .308, regardless of HP White's "everything is fine" test report.
I am not an expert on these but:
The ones I have seen that have a serial number that starts FR7 were converted. The ones with a serial number FR8 are later large ring 98 Mauser actions originally manufactured in 762x51 in the 1950s.
I have had a couple of the FR8 ones and they seem to be good rifles.
The ones I have seen that have a serial number that starts FR7 were converted. The ones with a serial number FR8 are later large ring 98 Mauser actions originally manufactured in 762x51 in the 1950s.
I have had a couple of the FR8 ones and they seem to be good rifles.
The FR-7 (Fusil Reformado No. 7) is a modified Model 1916 rifle chambered for a *weaker* version of the 7.62x51 NATO, because the Model 1916 has a smaller and weaker receiver ring. The FR-8 is based on the stronger Mauser 1898 model.
The walls of the 7.62x51 NATO are a little bit thicker than the .308 Winchester. It also has a little longer headspace.
The .308 *could* be loaded to yield higher pressure; therefore I, personally, would not shoot .308 from a rifle chambered for 7.62x51. But; hey, that’s just me…I like my eyes.
The walls of the 7.62x51 NATO are a little bit thicker than the .308 Winchester. It also has a little longer headspace.
The .308 *could* be loaded to yield higher pressure; therefore I, personally, would not shoot .308 from a rifle chambered for 7.62x51. But; hey, that’s just me…I like my eyes.
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If you really want a Mauser in 7.62x51/.308 then look for a FR-8. Yes they are 3 to four times as expensive as the FR-7 you are looking at but worth the money.
Mine shot Port surplus to 3inches@100yd all day long back when I had the eyes to do so. The rear sight can do a job on your thumb due to the straight bolt handle. Just use the heel of your palm to do all the work and don't wrap your fingers around the knob.
They are very good looking rifles.
Mine shot Port surplus to 3inches@100yd all day long back when I had the eyes to do so. The rear sight can do a job on your thumb due to the straight bolt handle. Just use the heel of your palm to do all the work and don't wrap your fingers around the knob.
They are very good looking rifles.
LVSteve
Member
Please stop with the .308 being a planet killer compared to 7.62 NATO. That fantasy is way past its sell by date. While it is possible to load more powder into a true .308 case, I doubt it is enough to make a substantial difference.
https://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/...s-308-vs-7-62-nato-wrong.html?highlight=grand
As for the strength of the 1916 action, a number were tested with proof loads up to about 80k PSI without catastrophe failures. I would be more concerned that the Mauser 93 does not handle gas well in the event of a case head failure, rather than worrying about an imminent total disassembly when shooting.
.455_Hunter
Member
The HP White report emerges from the primordial ooze...
Soft bolt and/or receiver metallurgy + 7.62/.308 chambering = excessive headspace = case and/or primer failure = BAD DAY!
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Spain had the same concern about gas routing if the case ruptured. That is why they added a gas port to the converted 1916s. I have no qualified opinion on the safety of these conversions. Except to say that these rifles were intended for emergency use, not long term use. More rounds have probably been fired through these rifles in civilian hands here than in Spanish military hands. If I needed or wanted an inexpensive 308 to shoot I'd buy a Savage Axis, not a converted M1916.
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LVSteve
Member
It wasn't just for the 1916 conversions. I have a rebuilt 1893 in 7 mm that had the gas slot and 1916 thumb relief added.
A while back there was several of the 1916s in .308 on GB and I thought about buying one until I did a bit of research. There were two Spanish manufacturers that made them. One, I don't remember which, produced a large number to fill the demand and in a hurry the receivers were left soft and never heat treated. One shot is all it takes to set the bolt lugs far enough back in the receiver to make the gun unsafe and beyond repair. Your eyes can't be replaced. Not worth the risk.
In late 1919 I found a 1916 308 converted rifle in a local shop - I won't name it. I didn't bring any cash, but I asked them to hold it for me and I'd come pick it up the next day.
When I went to pick it up, I was told they wouldn't sell it to me for safety reasons. I've done business with them to know that the resident gunsmith goes through, even test fires them before they go on the floor. So, OK whatever. I'd seen the carbines or short rifles, but I hadn't seen a full sized rifle in forever - that's the only reason I wanted it.
Covid comes around and they close up shop to walk in sales and do sales exclusively online. I follow them and eventually I see that same rifle for sale with no disclaimer. How do I know it was the same one? It had a distinctive ding and repair on the butt. Go figure.
When I went to pick it up, I was told they wouldn't sell it to me for safety reasons. I've done business with them to know that the resident gunsmith goes through, even test fires them before they go on the floor. So, OK whatever. I'd seen the carbines or short rifles, but I hadn't seen a full sized rifle in forever - that's the only reason I wanted it.
Covid comes around and they close up shop to walk in sales and do sales exclusively online. I follow them and eventually I see that same rifle for sale with no disclaimer. How do I know it was the same one? It had a distinctive ding and repair on the butt. Go figure.
rockquarry
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These are basically variants of the '93 Mauser, a very old and outdated design and not the strongest action. Spend a little more and get something modern and safer if you're going to do much shooting.
For anyone interested, there is a lot of detailed information on these actions in the Frank de Haas book, "Bolt Action Rifles". The late Frank de Haas was a well-recognized expert on bolt-action and single-shot rifles; certainly not the Internet kind of expert.
For anyone interested, there is a lot of detailed information on these actions in the Frank de Haas book, "Bolt Action Rifles". The late Frank de Haas was a well-recognized expert on bolt-action and single-shot rifles; certainly not the Internet kind of expert.
I'm ageless. Just kidding.
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