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  #1  
Old 04-02-2025, 02:19 PM
Doriangray6 Doriangray6 is offline
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Since all the corporate owned grocery stores in Cheyenne have "No Firearms" policies, though this isn't posted at their entrances, I carry this 22lr Beretta 21A Bobcat when I go grocery shopping.
Easy to carry in a pocket with a spare mag in another pocket and while 22lr isn't my first choice for defense 7 rounds of 40gr high velocity will work for what I figure I'll need it for, up close and personal.
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Old 04-02-2025, 02:30 PM
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I like sub-compact pocket carry too and also do not oblige corporate policies that compromise my or my family's safety. If your store/mall/venue is open to the public without comprehensive security screening, damn skippy I will be armed and your corporate legal team won't know the difference.
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Old 04-02-2025, 02:35 PM
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Concealed is concealed.

As the line from the movie Under Siege goes, “you can court-martial me if I live”.
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Old 04-02-2025, 02:44 PM
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I’d rather ask forgiveness than beg for permission.
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Old 04-02-2025, 02:49 PM
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I've had a 21A or 950 on my pocket for ~ 40 years, for the same reasons. 1st rule.
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Old 04-02-2025, 02:52 PM
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Pretty sure in Wi they have to post on door, not just have a written policy somewhere. However, if memory serves, if they find out your carrying they can tell you to leave.
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Old 04-02-2025, 02:55 PM
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Cheyenne as in Cheyenne WY?
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Old 04-02-2025, 05:21 PM
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"No guns" signs, at most businesses, carry no weight of law in Florida. Hence, even though Home Depot, some grocery stores, and a variety of other places have a "no guns" sign by their door, I worry not one little bit about carrying my full-sized M&P 2.0 into their store. The worst they can do is ask me to leave (if they happen to notice it, which they never do). If they ask me to leave, I will (and take my business elsewhere).

I like living in a state that (for the most part) respects my right, as a law-abiding citizen, to defend myself.
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Old 04-02-2025, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Pretty sure in Wi they have to post on door, not just have a written policy somewhere. However, if memory serves, if they find out your carrying they can tell you to leave.
As someone who was in the retail gun business at the time the CCW law was enacted in 2011, I know that, in the beginning, there were a lot more no-guns signs posted at businesses than there are now. Rumor had it that in some jurisdictions, misguided (possibly with political motives) local LEOs were telling business owners that if they didn't post their premises and someone carrying a gun used it inside, they would be open to civil liability for failing to protect their customers. It didn't take long for word to get around that if anything, the opposite was more likely; that if they prevented legal licensed carry and someone was shot by a criminal, they could be liable for failing to protect customers who might otherwise have been able to defend themselves. I know of many local businesses that removed their signs in the first year.
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Old 04-02-2025, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
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Pretty sure in Wi they have to post on door, not just have a written policy somewhere. However, if memory serves, if they find out your carrying they can tell you to leave.
They might tell you to leave AFTER you pay for your groceries
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Old 04-02-2025, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutAtTheEdge View Post
As someone who was in the retail gun business at the time the CCW law was enacted in 2011, I know that, in the beginning, there were a lot more no-guns signs posted at businesses than there are now. Rumor had it that in some jurisdictions, misguided (possibly with political motives) local LEOs were telling business owners that if they didn't post their premises and someone carrying a gun used it inside, they would be open to civil liability for failing to protect their customers. It didn't take long for word to get around that if anything, the opposite was more likely; that if they prevented legal licensed carry and someone was shot by a criminal, they could be liable for failing to protect customers who might otherwise have been able to defend themselves. I know of many local businesses that removed their signs in the first year.
Up here the only postings i ever saw were at the local library and medical clinic in Rice Lake.
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Old 04-02-2025, 08:05 PM
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Great idea! I’ve been doing it for 30 years with 950s, 21As, a 3032 and the last couple of years a model 20.
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Old 04-02-2025, 08:43 PM
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Costco has kicked my son out for not wearing a mask and also for open carry. I try not to buy anything from them. They don't respect the law or rights of people. I have a 21A and 950 too. Great guns.

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Old 04-02-2025, 09:18 PM
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Cheyenne as in Cheyenne WY?
Yup.........
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Old 04-02-2025, 09:23 PM
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In Wyoming, according to the state attorney, a business can ban people from carrying firearms within the business but the policy has to be posted at the entrances for it to be enforced by police.
Otherwise all they can do is ask a person to leave and if they refuse to have them charged with trespassing but not with having a firearm.
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Old 04-02-2025, 10:11 PM
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This law firm in Florida tells clearly where NOT to carry a firearm:

Places You Can't Conceal Carry in Florida: Rossen Law Firm Guide
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Old 04-02-2025, 10:43 PM
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Most LGS:ranges, have a sign that states,
No Loaded Firearms, Except When On The Range.
Always have the PPKs or LCP, with extra mag, in pocket.
We have two 21A Bobcats.
Fun with one in each hand, rapid fire, close up and
count the hits.
Ankle holster fits the 21A or the LCP without the Laser.
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Old 04-03-2025, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doriangray6 View Post
Yup.........
Little shocking for a free state. Is Cheyenne infested with, you know.
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Old 04-03-2025, 09:42 AM
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I have two Beretta Model 21s and both are "Jam O matics"
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Old 04-03-2025, 10:01 AM
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Mine too Jimmy!
My 21a also not reliable.
If I’m pocket carrying a small 22, it’s my Ruger LCP with MiniMags.
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Old 04-03-2025, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyj View Post
I have two Beretta Model 21s and both are "Jam O matics"
I had trouble with the one I had, as well. I have a 21 in .25 ACP and it runs like a champ.
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Old 04-03-2025, 11:13 AM
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I highly recommend the 950 over the 21!
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Old 04-03-2025, 11:17 AM
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Describe the type of jams that you have with the 21A.
Be specific.
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Old 04-03-2025, 12:13 PM
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I had trouble with the one I had, as well. I have a 21 in .25 ACP and it runs like a champ.
Rimfires are not as dependable as Centerfires
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Old 04-03-2025, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
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Describe the type of jams that you have with the 21A.
Be specific.
Failure To Feed and Failure to Eject with Standard and Hi Speed Ammo.
This is with different Magazines.
Both weapons and Magazines purchased NIB
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Old 04-03-2025, 12:32 PM
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Texas has very specific regulations for signs posted by businesses if they want to prohibit either open or concealed carry of handguns or both. Signs that don't meet all of these requirements have no legal force. Here are the requirements from the Texas Department of Public Safety website:

"A sign posted under §30.06, Texas Penal Code, must:

Include the following text in English and in Spanish:
"Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun";
Appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
Be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
A sign posted under §30.07, Texas Penal Code, must:

Include the following text in English and in Spanish:
"Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly";
Appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
Be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property.
"

Not surprisingly, few businesses in Texas post these, because they don't want to lose business from Texas' 1.7 million holders of a License to Carry, and from who knows how many other Texans who practice permitless carry.

Personally, I pocket carry a very reliable 1.0 M&P 40 compact converted to .357 SIG in a DeSantis Nemesis holster. Odd, I know, but it works for me.
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Old 04-03-2025, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyj View Post
Failure To Feed and Failure to Eject with Standard and Hi Speed Ammo.
This is with different Magazines.
Both weapons and Magazines purchased NIB
I've had 2 model 21As and they both had the same problems. What's worse is they don't have an extractor so some of those failures took a punch to remove the spent brass.

UNSATISFACTORY so they went down the road with people who were fully informed, but optimistic. I'd carry a lock blade knife before I carried any of those blow back no extractor pistols. At least you know where you stand with a knife.
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Old 04-03-2025, 01:11 PM
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Little shocking for a free state. Is Cheyenne infested with, you know.
It's not Wyoming making these rules, it's the corporations that own the grocery chains.
The owners of the little independent market where I sometimes buy eggs and other small purchases have no such rules.
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Old 04-03-2025, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imissedagain View Post
Describe the type of jams that you have with the 21A.
Be specific.
Mine was used, to be fair.
Most common was failure to extract.
It ran better with Mini-Mags than Stingers, I believe due to the case length.
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Old 04-03-2025, 01:19 PM
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As a general rule, no one needs to know you are carrying. I have carried a Glock 26, eventually replaced with a 33, in a Kramer pocket holster. It is a good system for most purposes. Pocket carry when driving is ... imperfect.

I carried that platform as a BUG in uniform, originally in an an ankle holster that laced into my boots, then in a holster mounted in the straps of my body armor when I became less flexible.
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Old 04-03-2025, 01:31 PM
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Some companies have insurance policies that state that no firearms are to be carried on the premises. At the health care facility that I go to, they have a sign at the entrance banning firearms. My healthcare provider, who is a gun guy, told me to ignore it. No offense intended, but I'd rather not carry a firearm than to carry a .22 LR handgun. I wouldn't want to just tick off an attacker even more!
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Old 04-03-2025, 01:44 PM
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My Bobcat has been very reliable with MiniMags. For concealability it is hard to beat a 442 or a KAHR CW380 in pocket holsters.

Cheers!
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Old 04-03-2025, 02:53 PM
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For the Businesses' that prohibited Guns--CCW a hand grenade--Downside it makes a mess of the incident scene.
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Old 04-03-2025, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyj View Post
I have two Beretta Model 21s and both are "Jam O matics"
Many people think the more powerful .22 LR will be better in a small pocket auto than the .22 Short and find out they are wrong. The much longer LR doesn't feed as well as the .22 Short and the model 950 Beretta is very reliable.
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Old 04-03-2025, 10:14 PM
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If failure to feed, is the bullet nose going up to the top of the
chamber's entrance, and not going in, that might be that the lips
of the magazine, are too wide.
About 15 years ago, I had that discussion with the Smiths and
executives at Beretta.
They said that they would pinch the lips a bit, on future mags.
Look at yours and check that.
Brass not ejecting, is often caused by a slightly dirty chamber.
With the Bobcats in 22LR, if the bullet drops into the chamber,
and when you turn the open barrel down, the round should just
drop out. If not, swab the barrel.
I swab mine every 40 rounds or less.
My boy fired 108, and he nor the smith at a range, could get it cleared.
Phone Dad and they got a lesson.
He knew better but wanted to see how many would lock it up.
My new HS 22LR, locked up after 120 rounds back in '68.

I never have problems with ours, as the mag lips are now correct, and chambers kept clean.
22LR ammo, not going bang, is a different issue.
A constant diet of HV ammo, is not recommended by Beretta, as it will just wear it out faster.
I trust our two, more than the ammo.
S&Walther 380 PPKs and LCP, are carried most often with
what we load.
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Last edited by Imissedagain; 04-03-2025 at 10:22 PM.
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