Strange Flash Holes?

[oldRoger]

I normally do not sort .45 cases for range shooting they are loaded on the LnL. Once in a while I use the single stage when I want to try something new. I wanted to load some rounds with 5.2grs of Titegroup .
So I took a batch of recently fired cases to prep. I cleaned, sized, neck exp., and started to prime, while doing that I sorted out some old military cases, and as I was proceeding I noticed some very large flash holes in old W-W cases.
I have no idea how these cases came to be in the mix, running them on the progressive I never see the flash hole.
I have no way to measure down in the hole except with a drill bit shank. What I found is as follows:
Normal flash hole is .082,
Large group is a loose fit on #30 (.1285)
No-go #29 (.1236)
Smaller group even larger at#25 (.1495) snug fit.
Altogether 38 cases.

I know that holes are enlarged for various reasons, but the way to do that is with a drill bit, I will concede that someone could have enlarged the small group with a number drill, how and why would they do the larger group at about .132”?

Photo shows; normal, midsize, & large.

 

[Spotteddog]

Rog,
The guy may have still been experiencing primer movement (outward) until he got to a certain diameter flash hole while running wax bullets?

 

[john traveler]

Spotted dog is correct. It was common practice to drill out primer pocket holes to a larger diameter to prevent primer setback from locking up a revolver cylinder when firing wax or plastic bullets using only primer power.

 

[oldRoger]

I have shot wax in .38 & .44, I never think about .45acp revolvers, shows a very insular view I suppose. That being the case what did he use to make the holes in the midsize group? The only bit sizes in that neighborhood are fractional metric, not found on every bench.
The large hole gives only .025” support for the primer cup. I don’t know how many times these things went around the rota before I found them. Must work just fine.

We have very large grass hoppers here called by the locals “lubbers” I have tried my luck, but I find it hard to hit anything at 3’. I suppose I need to zero at 2’.

 

[Steve C]

The brass you have is from WinClean ammo that was loaded with lead free primers. It can be reloaded just like any other .45 acp case so there's no worry about the larger flash hole.

As a test a few years back I loaded 6 of these WinClean large flash hole brass cases using 6.1grs of Unique and a 230gr Rem FMJ lit by a Win LPP and 6 PMC cases with standard flash hole and the same load. Over the chronograph both of the samples ran statistically identical velocities at 851 fps for the WinClean and 852 fps for the PMC. The only difference was the STDEV of the WinClean brass was about 1/2 that of the PMC.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Just for hoops and hollars, check out your dies. Check to see if the decapping pin isn't making that hole. I'm not sure what kind of dies you are using but maybe the decapping pin is loose or something.

What does the "web" of the case look like? Are they similar?

 

[oldRoger]

SmithC;
The large flash holes are confined to this one small group of .45acp cases. I have a Hornady size and decap die in the LnL, and a Lyman for my single stage. I have broken decap pins in my checkered past when they loosened. I suspect enlarging these holes would take lots of effort you would think that I would have noticed it.
It is possible that a faulty decap operation happened elsewhere, it has been a long time since I bought any commercial reloads, perhaps 10 years, but these have been making the rounds for a long time in my rota.
The holes do appear round. Regular holes are often not too round because they are punched in the drawing operation.
Just a cursory look through my brass to find the normal sized flash hole convinced me that I have very few W-W cases in the mix.
I don’t know how long it has been since Winchester used the W-W headstamp but most of what I see now is stamped with the full name.
I have seen some stamped Win-Clean, but I think that is on small primer pocket cases (curses upon small primered .45acp cases and all involved in their production and sale!)

 

[dennis40x]

Yes Winchester NT cases

The brass you have is from WinClean ammo that was loaded with lead free primers. It can be reloaded just like any other .45 acp case so there's no worry about the larger flash hole.

Yes Winchester NT cases before Winchester went to the NT case with the small pistol primer. I’ve also loaded those cases with no problem to speak of.

 

[haggis]

These may or may not be the older Win-Clean cases. The important thing is that Winchester confirmed at the time that normal reloads can be used in cases with large primer holes with no adverse effects, and without changing loads.


Buck

 

[Spotteddog]

What were they after exactly with the larger holes? I've never run any of those primers, are they sufficiently lower in flash that they required an oversized flash hole? Or is it a function strictly for cleaner combustion?

 

[haggis]

What were they after exactly with the larger holes? I've never run any of those primers, are they sufficiently lower in flash that they required an oversized flash hole? Or is it a function strictly for cleaner combustion?

I suspect that the early WinClean primers were lower brisance, and that the later NT ones have more normal flash intensity.

Buck

 

[dennis40x]

Should the flash holes measure as shown per this photograph than the OP photographed cases are most likely Winchester NT (Winclean) that employed LP primers.

 

[haggis]

Dennis,

I don't really know. It's been a long time since I've seen any. I do think that the cases were marked "Winchester" rather than "W-W", but I'd hate to swear to that.

Buck

 

[oldRoger]

Thanks to all who replied. I am sure that I have reloaded this brass many times and it functioned fine. It was only by accident that I found them since they would normally run through the LnL, unseen.
While I couldn’t get my dial calipers in the hole the drill bit shanks give me a good dimension check on the hole, even though the holes are not very round in some cases.
I have no experience with the non-toxic stuff except the occasional range pick-up of the small primered Win-NT (curses upon the tribe of the inventor).

I was hoping for something more romantic than “green” primers, but so be it.