Odd stoppages in both of my Glock 21s

[David Sinko]

I have two Glock 21s and am experiencing an odd stoppage with both of them. I am wondering if it has to do with my ammo. I have a Bar-Sto barrel which I swap between the two and I shoot cast bullets almost exclusively. I have had problems with 200 gr. SWC and 230 gr. RN wherein the second from last round in all my magazines will often fail to extract and the slide tries to chamber the last round with the fired case still in the chamber. What's really strange is that the only round that ever fails to extract is that second last round in the magazine. The 230 gr. bullet has a bit of a shoulder on the bearing surface and I load them so that the shoulder is exposed just outside the case mouth. All the ammo is rather heavily taper crimped. Is it possible that the exposed lip is somehow snagging the rim of the fired case and causing the extractor to slip off? And why would this happen with only the second from last round? Does the feeding angle become more abrupt when there are fewer rounds in the magazine, potentially causing an extraction problem if the rounds are too long? I remember shooting thousands of rounds of cast 200 gr. RF without any problems whatsoever and those bullets have a completely rounded profile with no sharp edges. Is anybody else loading a cast 200 gr. SWC for the Glock 21?

Dave Sinko

 

[cmort666]

I have two Glock 21s and am experiencing an odd stoppage with both of them. I am wondering if it has to do with my ammo. I have a Bar-Sto barrel which I swap between the two and I shoot cast bullets almost exclusively. I have had problems with 200 gr. SWC and 230 gr. RN wherein the second from last round in all my magazines will often fail to extract and the slide tries to chamber the last round with the fired case still in the chamber.

1. Have you tried factory 230gr. ball? If you have and DON'T have the problem, it's your reloads. Carefully compare your ammunition to the factory stuff, noting any differences.

2. Where on the spectrum of velocity do your loads fall? If it's on the low side, have you tried increasing your powder charge to see if there's a difference?

 

[OKFC05]

BARSTO are great barrels, but their match barrels have tight chambers.
Several people I know have throated theirs to help with cast bullet loads.

KKM standard barrels seem to give less trouble with lead loads.

Do you run your reloads through a case gauge?

 

[Rule3]

I hope they are not loads developed with the Blazer Aluminum as posted in this thread.??

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/98680-boxer-primed-cci-blazer.html

In addition to the above suggestions, it might be a magazine problem, have you tried different ones?.

Have any pictures? More information? We must have DATA

 

[Skip Sackett]

I don't load for one now, but I did.

Is it possible that the exposed lip is somehow snagging the rim of the fired case and causing the extractor to slip off? And why would this happen with only the second from last round? Does the feeding angle become more abrupt when there are fewer rounds in the magazine, potentially causing an extraction problem if the rounds are too long? I remember shooting thousands of rounds of cast 200 gr. RF without any problems whatsoever and those bullets have a completely rounded profile with no sharp edges. Is anybody else loading a cast 200 gr. SWC for the Glock 21?

Dave Sinko

My son has a G21 that I used to load for and I had one also. I never had a problem with it feeding anything to be honest, except some over sized lead.

I think the synopsis you have provided may just be true. Try loading a magazine full with the bullets seated just a tad shorter. Make sure your pressure isn't going to be a problem. You may have to reload some other ones with the shorter OAL instead of just trying to shorten some. Use the barrel as a case gage. Make sure your rounds with the heavy taper crimp can't be forced past the shoulder in the barrel. Too much of a good thing ceases to be good!

Just a thought.

 

[buckyjames1]

If its a consistent last few rd failure to feeds I would first go to magazine spring problem. How old are the mags, when was last time spring was replaced, what condition (debris) are the mags in.
As far as length of bullets, it could be that 1st rds have enough spring tention to muscle the feed while last rds do not. As you know, GLOCKS=AKs in the aspect that while not pretty or precise they will pretty much chew through anything you feed them.
Just a suggestion but might be time to rebuild or purchase new mags, and disassemble for a cleaning.

 

[David Sinko]

Each one has done this when meticulously clean. It has also done this with at least five different magazines, each having different amounts of wear. The 200 gr. SWCs were loaded kind of light, somewhere around 135 Power Factor for Steel League and USPSA Production. The 230 gr. RN was loaded to Major, just shy of factory ball velocities. I was really surprised when the 230 gr. load gave me trouble at the last match. I don't think it could be a magazine spring issue since the rounds feed flawlessly. Something is causing the fired case to not be extracted. The fired case always remains in the chamber and there is never a stovepipe type stoppage. I am suspecting that my loads might be a bit too long but I dare not try to re-seat them since they have a strong crimp. I do not have any more of either of these bullets and will probably not buy them again, preferring to cast now rather than spend money on cast bullets. Interestingly enough, my brother's Les Baer Concept VI runs flawlessly with this 200 gr. load but then chokes to death on the 200 gr. RF that my Glocks love so much. I have a feeling these problems might be due to the OAL of my loads and the bullet profile.

Dave Sinko

 

[Jellybean]

The problem might be your crimp. Will your dies roll crimp if you turn them down far enough? I bought a used Delta Elite that had a problem with extraction. The problem turned out to be a bubba-fied barrel modification that caused the cases to chamber too far in.

 

[fredj338]

This odd feeding occurs in the XD as well w/ 200grLSWC. If your LRN has a shoulder, it may act the same as the LSWC. The base of round ejecting hits the shoulder of the bullet on the next round coming up/ I have not found a cur for the XD by varying seating, so I just swtiched to a bullet w/ no shoulder. It feed other lead bullet profiles as well as all JHP fine.

 

[M29since14]

You may have to reload some other ones with the shorter OAL...
Use the barrel as a case gage. Make sure your rounds with the heavy taper crimp can't be forced past the shoulder in the barrel. Too much of a good thing ceases to be good!

These are the first things I would try. The heavy taper crimp is probably not necessary in the .45 Auto.

I use a similar 230 LRN bullet in my .45s like you describe with the full-diameter bearing area that protrudes slightly beyond the case mouth when loaded to the typical COL for a .45 RN (usually about 1.230"). I believe mine is the H&G 034. In my M&P45, the gun seems to function OK at that length, but maybe just a bit more positively when the length is reduced 0.020" or so.

It's a great bullet in just about any .45 I have ever had - nicer looking than other designs without the full-diameter feature, and seems to be slightly more accurate.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have a feeling these problems might be due to the OAL of my loads and the bullet profile.

Well, what IS your OAL and what IS the bullet profile (brand of commercial cast or mould number.)

Do you gauge or chamber check your reloads?

I observed the phenomenon fredj338 describes with SWCs in a Sig-Sauer P220 but the little shoulder on the average commercial cast RN is not enough to cause the problem.

 

[Skip Sackett]

An H&G #34! Dude..............................

I believe mine is the H&G 034. In my M&P45, the gun seems to function OK at that length, but maybe just a bit more positively when the length is reduced 0.020" or so.

It's a great bullet in just about any .45 I have ever had - nicer looking than other designs without the full-diameter feature, and seems to be slightly more accurate.

Drooling over here, seriously want that mold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




It has the best profile of all of the RN bullets I have seen. It has a slightly reduced ogive so longer lengths are possible, or so it would seem.

Did I happen to say that I want one of those molds? If not, I want one of those molds!

 

[M29since14]

Drooling over here, seriously want that mold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Send off your check to Ballisticast for their #634. Should be very close, if not identical.

I just received a new #926 (their designation for the old H&G #326) and I cannot tell the diff between the bullets thrown by the two molds - old H&G and new Ballisticast. There is some very slight chatter on the nose in a couple of the cavities in the Ballisticast mold, but it really is not that objectionable and of course has no effect on how the bullets will shoot.

Have to agree with you though. That old bullet is a good one.

 

[David Sinko]

I did some measuring and found that the length of the 200 gr. SWC is 1.270" and the 230 gr. RN is 1.260". The SWC is a bit long, as my notes indicate that 1.245" is my target length. I tend to load the LRN a bit long so that they drop into the cylinder of my 625s easier. My crimp is rather heavy, so there is no chance that the extracting case is catching on any flair. I remember reading years ago that Ross Seyfried claimed he would re-crimp factory loaded Federal 230 gr. Gold Medal ball ammo because his realized the rims would occasionally catch the case mouth during extraction and cause the odd stoppage. If it can happen with the case mouth, I'm figuring it could happen with the edge of the bullet too if it is seated too long. So I believe that fredj338 is on the right track. If I ever use these bullets again I'll load them shorter and see what happens.

Dave Sinko

 

[Charles]

If it's consistently happening on the second-to-last round, then it's hanging up on the last round in the mag. The thing that's different about the last round vs. all the other ones is that the last round is the one supported by the follower.

In 9mm, there are at least 5 or 6 versions of the follower, some of which work better than others. I'm not sure what the situation is in .45, but it might be worth a look.

 

[gene h]

Why not build some dummy rounds and then hand cycle your Glock watching what is happening. You could also be taper crimping to much.
I live about a fingernail thickness (1/32") of the shoulder showing and taper crimp to .469" for lead 180-200g SWC's. For 160g short nosed SWC I leave about 2 fingernails. Try using a factory round to set up your loader then try a loading a few. gene