Want sizing die, .45 Colt, to size to .447"

[sonny]

I have some problems with bullet creep with lighter .45 Colt handguns. My die manufacturer says that their die was originally set up for .454 bullets and was never made "smaller" to accommodate .452 bullets. That means that my sizer gives an i.d. of .449" which is not tight enough with heavier bullets and lighter guns. I have tried to move past this by using a somewhat famous third-party crimping die, to no avail.
Would appreciate your help; I don't want to tie up a gun at an "inconvenient" time. Thanks
Sonny

 

[Ron H.]

Sir, you might try a .454 Casull die; I understand they're made tighter than many .45 Colt dies. Before doing that, though, have you tried different brands of brass? Different makes do vary a bit in wall thickness, and 2 thousandths isn't much to take up.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[Nygma]

Perhaps you can exchange the set for another brand.
Try RCBS dies. I had the same problem with my old 45 Colt dies and newer guns designed for .451" - .452" bullets. After resizing, I could drop the bullet into the case and it would fall until it sat on top of the powder charge without even running the case over the expander.

After expanding, my carbide RCBS 45 Colt, and 454 dies both leave the ID of the case around .447" (measured roughly with calipers). The 45 Colt expander ball mics .4489", and the 454 expander ball mics .4494". You could polish you expander ball down, but unfortunately, it sounds like your sizing die isn't drawing the case down far enough to take this approach.

 

[Roadranger]

Run your 45 Colt brass through a 45 ACP sizing die. A friend of mine had the same problem and cured it with the 45acp die. I'd try half of the die at first, then more each time to make sure the case will go all of the way in. Even if it doesn't it'll still size the neck of the case tight enough for your smaller bullets. And stay with the Lee FC die, it works. Bob!

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I am a huge .45 Colt fan, and have loaded for a bunch of them.

I agree with Nygma, buy some RCBS carbide dies, and you won't have any trouble afterwards. They are what I use, and they do size the cases down properly. I still turn all my expander plugs down to at least .004"-.005" under nominal bullet diameter (.452") and they work well with .451", .452", and .453". I turn them down to prevent bullet creep in some of the rather stout loads that I have made up over the years. The dies worked perfectly as they came for any normal loads, and even with all of my stout loads. I don't recall ever having any creep, but I wanted to eliminate as many possible problems as soon as I could.

I know that a lot of guys here like the Lee factory crimp die, and I won't knock anyone for doing what they believe works, but in loading for 30 years, and hundreds of thousands of rounds of almost every caliber, I have never seen the need for one, and prefer not to place any extra wear on my brass that isn't absolutely necessary. YMMV

 

[sonny]

Run your 45 Colt brass through a 45 ACP sizing die.

QUOTE=Gun 4 Fun: I still turn all my expander plugs down to at least .004"-.005" under nominal bullet diameter (.452") and they work well with .451", .452", and .453". I turn them down to prevent bullet creep in some of the rather stout loads that I have made up over the years.
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I used my .45 ACP sizing die with the .45 Colt brass and my sized Starline and Federal brass went from 0.4495" to 0.446". Both brands of brass miked within 0.001" of each other. And yes, I have turned down my expander plugs in a similar way some time ago, for the same reason.

YOU GUYS (AND GIRLS) ARE THE BEST! THANK YOU. My die manufacturer Customer Service guy did send me a new sizing die, which gave same dimension as old die, and said they are sending a new crimp die design, so they were trying...
Anyway, I'm very happy, as I am loading some Keith bullets that only leave 0.015" clearance to the end of the cylinder; not much room for creep.
Sonny

 

[Nygma]

Run your 45 Colt brass through a 45 ACP sizing die.
Bob!

Great idea.

 

[GCF]

A Dillon 550 45 Colt sizer, gives me a .446" ID w/ Starline brass.

As a side note, you might consider that the smaller you size your brass, the sloppier your loaded round will be in your revolver's cylinder chamber. Got to be a happy medium, somewhere there abouts...

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

A Dillon 550 45 Colt sizer, gives me a .446" ID w/ Starline brass.

As a side note, you might consider that the smaller you size your brass, the sloppier your loaded round will be in your revolver's cylinder chamber. Got to be a happy medium, somewhere there abouts...

That isn't exactly right. If your chamber throats are correctly sized, then your bullet will be resting in that throat, and properly lined up with your bore. If the rest of the chamber is oversized (as Ruger and Colt have been doing for years), then yes, that part of the case will be overly worked between firing and resizing, but still the round won't rattle around in your chamber as long as the bullet is seated in a proper throat.

 

[GCF]

That isn't exactly right. If your chamber throats are correctly sized, then your bullet will be resting in that throat, and properly lined up with your bore.

In a perfect world, yes - but that depends entirely on the type of bullet, & cartridge OAL. I load a Keith style 265LSWC / .452", in Starline brass, for my 625-6 MG. This bullet is cast for me (by a forum member) from a BallistiCast mold. Crimp groove forward, it is approximately the same length as the RCBS 45-270-SAA bullet, & has a slightly more pronounced front driving band.

Brass trimmed to 1.280", the front band does not actually sit quite in the .452" throats, when chambered. Almost, but not quite...

I believe a heavier (280 - 300 grn maybe) LBT style, WFN bullet would actually sit in the throats, which if you think about it, would actually make sized bullet diameter EXTREMELY critical - for more then just accuracy & leading control. A .453" sized bullet, would not readily chamber, w/ .452 throats.

... If the rest of the chamber is oversized (as Ruger and Colt have been doing for years), then yes, that part of the case will be overly worked between firing and resizing, but still the round won't rattle around in your chamber as long as the bullet is seated in a proper throat.

As best as I can tell, the newer non-pinned barrel, mod 25 / 625 Smiths, have .483" ID cylinders - which I believe is minimum SAAMI spec. Case head (just north of the rim) of Starline brass, measures .476" OD. The Dillon sizer takes it down to .473" OD, just in front of the head - & .470" OD, at the mouth.

Now I'll grant you that .007" (at case head) is NOT a lot of wriggle room - but it AIN'T EXACTLY fire formed either. ;=]

Especially when you consider that the front driving band is not actually IN the throats.

I guess a guy has to be about half nuts to worry this much about dimensions w/ a 4" barreled revolver, but I've actually taken to backing my sizer off bottom 1 turn or so, to enhance cartridge /chamber alignment. Yeah, it actually helps.

I think the trick is, to get your cartridge OD as close as possible to the cylinder ID, with out excessively reducing neck tension on the bullet.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I agree with this post. SAAMI needs to re-do it's specs for the .45 Colt. There are way too many oversized chambers being made.

I load a lot of the Lyman 452424 in my cases, and my bullets actually do sit in the throats of both my Smiths, and did so in my Redhawk, and Blackhawk.

My 25-5's throats measure .453", while my 25-7's throats are spot on at .452", and it is a lazer. Not sizing quite down to the bottom of the case does help with alignment in the .45 Colt.