Anyone Using HP-38 In .38 Special???

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree there's no reason not to shoot 158gr bullets in the .38 Special, after all, that was the original bullet weight used in it's development. I'm guessing the lawyers had a big hand in this. since they forced the load data to become so anemic they are also scared the anemic data will cause a squib with a 158gr bullet.

My favorite loads for the .38 Special are:
3.2gr W231 under a 148gr DEWC
3.5gr W231 under a 148gr DEWC
4.0gr W231 under a 158gr LSWC

For the .45 Auto I charge 5.5gr W231 under any 230gr bullet, lead of jacketed.

 

[EastKY_DO]

Ditto

HP-38 is a great powder for .38 Sp and others too.

I've used the 3.2gr load on 148gr WC for more years than I can remember. It is also a pleasant plinking load for the swaged 158gr SWC that leaves little or no leading.

I've found that 7.2gr under a 240gr SWC is a great 'cowboy' style load in a .44Mag case. Clocks at about 900 from a 6" 629, with very mild recoil. Would be great in a mountain gun. (Where's my checkbook?)

 

[Frank V]

I'm just now switching from 231 to HP38 (I'm out & HP38 is $5/lb cheaper here) I'm starting with starting loads for the HBWC. It looks like it'll be a good load.
Frank

 

[lmsteimel]

HP 38 Load amount

I am new to reloading but I reloaded about 100 rounds of 9mm ammo with HP 38 and it worked fine but I just tried 5 rounds for my 38 special using a Lee chart that said to use 3.2 grains and I fired a couple of rounds into the ground and it was like a toy cap gun. I'm not sure what I did wrong. I noticed you were using 4.4 grains. My gun is a 38 Special +P so there should be room for some error. I am using a Lee scoop to measure. The chart said to use the 3cc scoop. The next bigger scoop was the one I used for 9mm. It is a 5cc scoop.

Thanks,
Larry

I live in Illinois about 100 miles from the Winchester plant in Alton. W231 is always cheaper in the shops around here; however, if I mail order it, I noticed that now, HP-38 is ALWAYS cheaper. I think it has to do with Hodgdon now being the distributor of Winchester powders. (They - Hodgdon - are making sure the Win. powder is a couple bucks per 8-lb keg more than their branded-version of the same powder, is what it looks like to me... Wonder how Winchester feels about that arrangement?)

Anyway, it's all the same SMP-231 powder designed and made in Florida. Sometimes you can find "surplus" SMP-231 powder at a good price. I haven't seen any in about 10 years, but I had a keg of it once. I use W231/HP-38 for probably 90% of my handgun loading, including 380, 9mmP, 38, 357Mag, 10mm, 45ACP, 44 Russian, 44 Spl., and 44 Magnum.

It's bad points are smokiness (especially with lead bullets using soft lube) and dirtiness (not too bad really, but worse than the powders whose claim to fame in these modern times is "clean-burning"). The great parts about 231 is that it flows in measures VERY well, and it is an amazingly flexible powder. Here's my basic loads:

380 Auto x 105gr LRN + 3.0grs W231/HP38 = 800 fps (roughly - haven't chronoed that yet)
9mmP x 135gr LRN + 4.4grs W231/HP38 = 1100 fps (depending on barrel length)
38 Spl. x 158gr LSWC + 4.4grs W231/HP38 = 800 fps (again, depending on bbl.)
357 Mag. x 158gr LSWC + 5.6grs W231/HP38 = 1000 fps (light load for a 357)
10mm Auto x 175gr LTC + 5.6grs W231/HP38 = 1100 fps
45 ACP x 230gr LRN + 5.6grs W231/HP38 = 870 fps
45 ACP x 200gr LSWC + 4.4grs W231/HP38 = 700 fps (target load)
44 Russian x 205gr LRNFP + 4.4grs W231/HP38 = 725 fps (depending on bbl.)
44 Spl. x 225gr LRNFP + 5.6grs W231/HP38 = 775 fps
44 Mag. x 250gr LSWC(Keith) + 7.5grs W231/HP38 = 950 fps

As you can see, HP38/W231/SMP231 is quite a universal powder, and it flows well, and is very economical. Out of 10 loads in 9 calibers, 8 of them use one of two weight settings. This allows me to keep two powder measures basically permanently set up for these two standard loads and move them from tool-head to tool-head.

I noticed someone said that they believed St. Mark's Powder is owned by ATK / Alliant. As far as I know, St. Mark's Powder was sold by Winchester to General Dynamics, and is still owned by General Dynamics. The connection here is that St. Mark's makes the propellant for rockets as well as gunpowder, and Gen. Dynamics is of course an aerospace giant... Here's a branch of their website which shows that the new 100V powder is definitely a St. Mark's product: GD-OTS Propulsion Solutions

 

[Nick B]

I've got a lot of it . How is it when used for reduced loads in .44 mag ?

 

[Bkreutz]

I am new to reloading but I reloaded about 100 rounds of 9mm ammo with HP 38 and it worked fine but I just tried 5 rounds for my 38 special using a Lee chart that said to use 3.2 grains and I fired a couple of rounds into the ground and it was like a toy cap gun. I'm not sure what I did wrong. I noticed you were using 4.4 grains. My gun is a 38 Special +P so there should be room for some error. I am using a Lee scoop to measure. The chart said to use the 3cc scoop. The next bigger scoop was the one I used for 9mm. It is a 5cc scoop.

Thanks,
Larry

Don't go by the scoop recommendations. It sounds like you aren't using a scale. If that's the case, get a scale before proceeding.

 

[Rule3]

Zombie thread!

This is another 4 year old thread!

Don't go by the dipper chart, you must weigh the amount from the dipper and must scoop or dip in the correct way.

Scoop and use a flat edge like a business card and scrape off the top. Then weigh on a good scale what that equals. You may have to use a smaller or larger dipper to get the WEIGHT you want.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Larry, welcome to the forum. You would have been better off starting your own thread instead of bringing back a 4 year old thread.

Like said above, never use a scoop without verifying the weight of the powder it scoops. As you see that leads to bad loads. If the rounds were as light as you say you are lucky you didn't shoot a squib.

 

[lmsteimel]

Grams to ounces

This is not a 4 year old thread for me and there will always be new people on forums like this. That is the purpose of a forum. Experienced people helping new people. I expect to pay back the forum by helping others as I gain experience.

By the way the gun I am now using for carry is a S&W 38 Special +P Airweight that has been through the S&W Performance Center where they do a trigger job and whatever else they do plus put cherry grips on it. I'm very happy with it.

Thanks for the info,
Larry

This is another 4 year old thread!

Don't go by the dipper chart, you must weigh the amount from the dipper and must scoop or dip in the correct way.

Scoop and use a flat edge like a business card and scrape off the top. Then weigh on a food scale what that equals. You may have to use a smaller or larger dipper to get the WEIGHT you want.

 

[Rule3]

Granted, did not mean to come across rude, it is just that the HP38/W 231 debate has gone on for a long time and the issue has been beat to death!

As Arch mentioned your question on dippers or scoops could be a new thread started by you without all the previous posts on the HP 38 debate.

The LEE chart is only a estimate at the time they tested the dippers. Your batch of HP38 will weigh a different amount then mine. Some powders are very close to the chart others are so far off it's dangerous.
I started with the dippers, even made my own custom ones from filed down brass and a wire handle (still have them) They are actually very accurate if scooped as I mentioned above, but you must weigh the powder. Volume and weight are not the same thing.

Anyway, yes we are here to help and ask away! I also meant to type GOOD scale and not Food scale,

Welcome to the forum

 

[Bkreutz]

Anyway, yes we are here to help and ask away! I also meant to type GOOD scale and not Food scale,

Welcome to the forum

Glad you cleared that up, I was wondering what kind of diet you were on that you had a food scale that was calibrated in grains.

 

[jayg]

i'm new to the forum and glad this thread got bumped. it's all new information to me. thanks

 

[lmsteimel]

I ordered a scale on eBay today.
Thanks for all the help.
Larry

This is another 4 year old thread!

Don't go by the dipper chart, you must weigh the amount from the dipper and must scoop or dip in the correct way.

Scoop and use a flat edge like a business card and scrape off the top. Then weigh on a good scale what that equals. You may have to use a smaller or larger dipper to get the WEIGHT you want.

 

[texan4ut]

Old threads never die they just stay dormant until they are needed again

 

[lmsteimel]

I went to a reload shop a couple of days ago and they sold me 158 grain bullets and said that was the most popular bullet they sell for target shooting with a 38 special.

I agree there's no reason not to shoot 158gr bullets in the .38 Special, after all, that was the original bullet weight used in it's development. I'm guessing the lawyers had a big hand in this. since they forced the load data to become so anemic they are also scared the anemic data will cause a squib with a 158gr bullet.

My favorite loads for the .38 Special are:
3.2gr W231 under a 148gr DEWC
3.5gr W231 under a 148gr DEWC
4.0gr W231 under a 158gr LSWC

For the .45 Auto I charge 5.5gr W231 under any 230gr bullet, lead of jacketed.

 

[lmsteimel]

Thanks for all the good info. Sorry I'm so late but I have had my knees replaced and a spinal chord injury and I have let those little things interfere with my other interests, like shooting, loading and golf. I'm slowly getting back though.

 

[lmsteimel]

By the way I now have a single stage Lee kit with a good scale and most things I need. I am using 4 grains of HP-38 in my 9mm and 3.1 grains in my 38 special and for now that works for me.
My carry ammo in both guns in Hornady hollow points.
I don't trust my ability to reload carry ammo yet and besides, I hope I never need to reload it.

 

[blujax01]

Oh, this is too easy...

Glad you cleared that up, I was wondering what kind of diet you were on that you had a food scale that was calibrated in grains.

An all-grain diet?

(I'll take mine with extra gluten, please. :roll eyes: )

 

[Jeff Napoleoni]

hp-38

I have probably loaded more rounds with W-231 / HP-38 than any other powder.

.38 special cowboy loads get 3.5 grs. under a 158 gr. LRNFP.

.38 special everyday loads for range work get 4.0grs. under LSWCs

I just loaded up some 147 gr. LWCHB heads with the 4.0 grs. and will test them for accuracy this week.

I also use it for the .45ACP. A 230gr. FMJ over 5.0-5.2 grs. makes a nice target load. I've loaded thousands of these over the years.

The only downside to this powder is that it does not take up a lot of space in the case, and you need to be especially careful that you don't load a double charge. A double charge will fit in the case, and will turn your gun into a hand grenade!


WG840

Nice post 1st pound through the press. this week, I measured a light load 3.8gn and was surprised at the volume. Shooting for 4.0g in 38 special SWC 158gn

 

[Sistema1927]

I have been using W231/HP38 interchangeably since the 1970's.