.32 H&R magnum MYSTERY (to me anyway)

[JamesD]

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[Note: Technically this isn't a "reloading" question I don't guess.]
[But, like last time, I just feel like I'll get my best answer here.]
[So, hope this is OK.]
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Everybody,

This wonderful forum was a great help to me when I posted this thread trying to learn about the possibilities out there for revolvers chambered in .32 H&R magnum

Now, I have an ammunition question.

I would really, really like to have a FMJ .32 Magnum round.
NOBODY makes one.
I have found several sources for .32 Magnum in JHP, but NONE in FMJ.

At first I thought it was just a marketing/sales decision.

But when talking to some of the small loading companies, the answer I get is “I would, but nobody makes a FMJ bullet in that caliber.”

At first I just said, “Hmh. OK.” Because, heck I don’t know about these things.

But then I realized that I’m sitting here looking at a box of Fiocchi .32 S&W Long FMJ ammunition.

So, MY QUESTION is: Isn’t that my bullet?

This Fiocchi FMJ bullet is a little longer than the jhp bullet Federal uses on their round that I am currently using, but I did some measurements and that doesn’t seem to ME like a problem.

The S&W Long FMJ bullet is roughly .09” longer than the Federal magnum jhp bullet.
But there seems to be plenty (.313”) of spare chamber room in my 431 P.D. to accommodate this slight difference.

Am I missing something?

Is it that it CAN’T be done for some reason?
Or just that people who load for .32 H&R magnum just don’t WANT to make a FMJ round for some reason?
Or...they’d LIKE to but the bullet in this Fiocchi round isn’t that widely available?

Any thoughts appreciated.
Just trying to understand.

JamesD

 

[Jellybean]

It can be done because I've done it.

I'd say there is a lack of bulk bullets suitable for the load and I've never seen any Fiocchi components available for anything.

I'm sure if there was a demand for them, they would be make by someone.

If this was a reloading question, you can easily make FMJ .32 magnum ammo using bullets for a .32 auto. You can either seat them deep enough to crimp around the ogive of the nose or you can make a cannalure with a tool such as the Corbin HCT.

P.S. I've also made them with 7.62X39 bullets using .32 S&W Long brass.

 

[shovelwrench]

I know Hornady also makes some revolver bullets in XTPs.
I'm surprised no one is making self defense ammo since its chambered in J-frames. Only way to get a six shot J is. 32, and 22.

 

[Andy Griffith]

I've never used the Corbin cannalure tool, but CH4D makes one that is immensely more affordable, and every reloader that uses jacketed or plated bullets needs one.

It's on my short list to get.

 

[JamesD]

Hi friends,

First...I just edited my OP (added the sentence in bold).
shovelwrench's post made me realize that I could have expressed myself more clearly.

Second... Jellybean may be getting at (what may be) MY problem with understanding this.

It can be done because I've done it.
If this was a reloading question, you can easily make FMJ .32 magnum ammo using bullets for a .32 auto.

I was thinking (and remember I am not a loader/reloader) that a .32 cal. bullet was a .32 cal. bullet.
And that if Fiocchi made a .32 S&W Long FMJ round, then THERE was the bullet for my .32 H&R magnum FMJ round.
But...not so???
A .32 ACP bullet and a .32 S&W Long bullet and a .32 H&R magnum bullet would be THREE different bullets?
Yes?
No?

Again, just trying to understand.

Thanks,

JamesD

 

[shovelwrench]

Bullet diameters for .32 handguns are all the same. Meaning .32auto, .32S&W, .32long, .32colt etc........ All can interchange their bullets.

Your right, no FMJ available, loaded or bullets w/cannalure. Might be an over penetration problem with FMJ. There is LRN offered which probably performs nearly the same as a FMJ would.

 

[Tony C.]

Sierra still listed .312" 71 gr. FMJ bullet at their web site:

Sierra Bullets - The Bulletsmiths

You may want to give that a try.

 

[BUFF]

Just curious, but why do you want a FMJ load in this caliber?

You do know that you can shoot .32 S&W Long ammuniion in your .32 H&R Magnum handgun, don't you? It's like .38 Special/.357 Magnum, one's shorter and lower pressure.

 

[JamesD]

-
Thanks for the continuing comments which are STIMULATING my thinking.

Bullet diameters for .32 handguns are all the same. Meaning .32auto, .32S&W, .32long, .32colt etc........ All can interchange their bullets.

Alright, so, yep, I couldn't figure how there could be any difference in DIAMETER (i.e. .32 but I guess I read in an implication that there were other differences (bullet length, bullet shape) that somehow would make one more suitable for a .32 ACP vs. a .32 S&W Long vs. a .32 H&R magnum. Any differences there? Or, in fact, a .32 bullet is a .32 bullet is a .32 bullet regardless of what round you want to make it into?

Sierra still listed .312" 71 gr. FMJ bullet at their web site:

Hmmm...thanks Tony. A little lighter than the H&R magnum deserves I would think (more like 85 to 100 is what I was thinking), but we'll see. Thanks.

P.S. and actually, re-reading this before posting... looking back at my question to shovelwrench above, maybe WEIGHT does sort of make one .32 bullet be for one round and another for another.

You do know that you can shoot .32 S&W Long ammunition in your .32 H&R Magnum handgun, don't you? It's like .38 Special/.357 Magnum, one's shorter and lower pressure.

Indeed I do, Buff. As I said above, that’s what started this whole thought process of mine... looking at this box of Fiocchi 97 gr. S&W Long I have sitting here and wondering why there aren’t any of those bullets riding on a magnum case.

Just curious, but why do you want a FMJ load in this caliber?

Well, I’ll tell you, but you’re not going to like it.

As I’ve said elsewhere, it all started when I got my Daddy’s 60's Model 36 and early 70’s Model 37 handed down to me.

I was instantly taken with the LOGIC of the 2” j-frame.
Didn’t want to carry the heirlooms around.
So I came up with me my brace of 431 P.D.s.
a) because I’m a maverick at heart, and
b) because I figured 6 shots was better than 5

And as to the “why do you want a FMJ load in this caliber?” question (and here’s the part you’re not going to like ... I would like it for my SD load for these pistols.

I’ve just never been fully taken by the “jhp is [automatically always going to be] better” point of view.
And in particular, with “marginal” SD rounds (.380 ACP, .32 H&R magnum, and probably even .38 spl.) I just don’t think you’re moving in the right direction to give up penetration for expansion.

Not to open up a can of worms here, but
a) you asked, and
b) it’s my thread so I guess I can drift it if I want to

Plus, this forum is as mature as any I’ve come across, so I got no worries.
We’re all friends, and there’s always room for differing viewpoints. Right?

Thanks to all for the comments.
More?

JamesD

 

[Jellybean]

I was thinking (and remember I am not a loader/reloader) that a .32 cal. bullet was a .32 cal. bullet.
And that if Fiocchi made a .32 S&W Long FMJ round, then THERE was the bullet for my .32 H&R magnum FMJ round.
But...not so???
A .32 ACP bullet and a .32 S&W Long bullet and a .32 H&R magnum bullet would be THREE different bullets?
Yes?
No?

Again, just trying to understand.

Thanks,

JamesD

James, the bullet that Fiocchi is using may not be available as a bulk item, or it may just not be available as a bulk item in this country. The only choice you would have then, if you were to handload some, is to buy a box of the factory .32S&W Longs and pull all the bullets.

Technically all the .32 handguns do take the same diameter bullet, but most bullets made specifically for the .32 auto will not have a crimp groove/cannalure, which you will want for a heavy load in a revolver. Also, as you've noted, the .32 autos usually stay with lighter bullets, which are great for a varmint load in the .32 mags.

As someone else had stated, a hard cast lead bullet might give you what you want too. You could check with some of the smaller ammo makers to see if they can help you out.

 

[Rule3]

Bottom line is it just is not a popular enough round for companies to make different ammo for it. I also like the idea of a 6 shot snub.

I am afraid the "newer" 327 Federal round is going to suffer the same fate.

I really like the ballistics (on paper) of that round. I have shot the Ruger version of it and really like it.

Just doesn't seem to be catching on however.

S&W has a version and a Pro version which is in the 2010 catalog but production has not even begun on it.

 

[Jellybean]

I haven't shot, or even seen anything of the .327s yet, but I'm sure it will be just like the .32 magnum as far as availability and fate. They have some potential, although I'm not talking about the self defense guns that the manufacturers are trying to push them as. For anyone that is thinking about buying either caliber, if you don't already handload, you might want to start.

 

[Steve C]

If you go to Rainier Ballist, Bullets and select "Leadsafe Bullets" the second bullet from the top on the left is a 110gr RN plated bullet sized .312 for the .32 H&R magnum. About as close to a FMJ that you will find with proper sizing.

You could try some .30 cal 110gr FMJ's used for the .30 carbine but they're a bit undersized at .308 dia.

 

[JamesD]

Thanks Jellybean and OCD1

Yep, there is of course NO doubt that demand is the issue.
I knew that going into it when I bought these revolvers in .32 H&R magnum.
Knew it was going to be a bit of work to get .32 H&R magnum ammo in general, and more work to get exactly what I wanted.
But I've always operated three standard deviations out; you just do what you need to do to get to where you want to go.
Thanks for the conversation.

Steve C.- thanks for the link.
It looks to me though that the 110gr. RN plated bullet is the .308. No?
But the 100gr. FP is .312. Yes?
That might be my bullet! (if I could acquire some and get somebody to load them for me)
Thanks.

JamesD

 

[Rule3]

As mentioned, Sierra lista a 32 cal fmj and Berry's bullets has a plated.

So, get yourself a little single stage Lee reloading kit(with manual) and get loading. For the price of several boxes of ammo you can reload your own. We will guide you every step of the way. It's really not hard or expensive, keep you busy and out of trouble. Heck you buy the dies and I'll load them for ya.

32 Caliber - Plated Bullets - Pistol Bullet

 

[Steve C]

It looks to me though that the 110gr. RN plated bullet is the .308. No?
But the 100gr. FP is .312. Yes?

You're correct. When I looked at the page I thought the .312 diameter was an alternative size for the same 110gr bullet above due to the indentation and didn't see it as a Heading. But a copper clad 100 gr FP would be as close alternative to a FMJRN that one could find commercially available for a handloader.

 

[Alk8944]

JamesD,

If you are going to shoot the .32 H&R much you are going to have to start reloading.

I believe it was your comment that the reason you want a FMJ bullet was for self defense. This is not a good bullet selection. You aren't talking about a .32 ACP or .380 ACP, the .32 H&R is a much more effective cartridge than either. In either of these cartridges the the FMJRN is a concession to reliable feeding, not penetration.

.32 is .32 is .32? Not really. U.S. Made .32 caliber guns will range from .310 to .315, while the usual bullets are .311-.312. European .32 caliber guns will usually run .309 +/-, and bullets similarly sized. When shooting jacketed bullets the fit isn't nearly so critical as with Lead bullets as the hard jacket will take the rifling well even though there will be some gas blow-by. Examples are the 1917 (American) Enfield and the British Lee-Enfield. Both shoot quite well with standard bullets that normally run .003 to .005 under nominal groove diameter.

Usable jacketed bullets for the .32 H&R can run .003 under-sized without problems. In round nosed this gives options of the 71-75 gr. .32 ACP bullets and the 110 gr. RN .308 bullets for the .30 U.S.Carbine. In RN Soft Point there are 110 Carbine bullets and an 85 gr. Sierra Sports Master for the 7.62x25 Tokarev/.30 Mauser.

 

[JamesD]

So, get yourself a little single stage Lee reloading kit(with manual) and get loading.

OCD1-man,

Oh, ALL sorts of people have told me this.
And, actually, loading would be exACTly the kind of thing I could be VERY good at.
But only on my terms.
Which would be to (as my old Latin master used to exhort us) "read, learn, comprehend, digest and make fully a part of you" all there is to know about reloading.
I take making self defense ammunition to be a pretty serious enterprise, and just would not do it unless I felt I had completely mastered it. (My wife says my motto should be "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.")
And at my age (entering geezerhood) I'm just not sure I want to devote the time and effort to mastering another skill.

At least that's my thoughts at present.

Thanks for the idea though.

JamesD

 

[JamesD]

JamesD,

I believe it was your comment that the reason you want a FMJ bullet was for self defense. This is not a good bullet selection. You aren't talking about a .32 ACP or .380 ACP, the .32 H&R is a much more effective cartridge than either. In either of these cartridges the the FMJRN is a concession to reliable feeding, not penetration.

Hey man - good to hear from you again.

So...I know that there are hand loaders who REALLY hot up the .32 H&R magnum load. And with a 4" or longer barrel you can apparently get some impressive velocities and ballistics out of a .32 magnum round. But out of a 2" snubbie barrel... I've done my best to read and understand the ammo ratings, I mean...I haven't gone out and shot a bunch of pigs or sides of beef, but ON PAPER I was under the impression that the .32 magnum round, out of a 2" barrel, was "decent" but not truly "impressive." Thus my thoughts to give up the arguable bonus of expansion to get all the penetration possible out of the round. If you think I am way off in my thinking, please OPINE at some length and 'splain it to me.

.32 is .32 is .32? Not really. U.S. Made .32 caliber guns will range from .310 to .315, while the usual bullets are .311-.312. European .32 caliber guns will usually run .309 +/-, and bullets similarly sized. When shooting jacketed bullets the fit isn't nearly so critical as with Lead bullets as the hard jacket will take the rifling well even though there will be some gas blow-by. Examples are the 1917 (American) Enfield and the British Lee-Enfield. Both shoot quite well with standard bullets that normally run .003 to .005 under nominal groove diameter.

Usable jacketed bullets for the .32 H&R can run .003 under-sized without problems. In round nosed this gives options of the 71-75 gr. .32 ACP bullets and the 110 gr. RN .308 bullets for the .30 U.S.Carbine. In RN Soft Point there are 110 Carbine bullets and an 85 gr. Sierra Sports Master for the 7.62x25 Tokarev/.30 Mauser.

Too much learning curve I fear. Maybe if I had a neighbor who could come by, set me up, and tell me: do THIS, then do THIS then do THIS... maybe. But otherwise, God bless you all, I think it's more than I need to attempt to master, just for this one round (all my other calibers I have real good sources for that I am happy with).

But I love hearing and am always continually re-evaluating.
But FOR NOW I think my best plan is to find a source to get these from.

Best regards,

JamesD

P.S.

If you are going to shoot the .32 H&R much you are going to have to start reloading.

Actually, one aspect of this whole decision making process that I have in the back of my mind but never said in so many words to y'all, is that I am NOT going to be shooting a ton of this round. I don't know... a few hundred a year maybe (?), just to stay comfortable and modestly competent with my little snubbie BUG. - jamesd

.

 

[PMRet]

I shoot mostly .32 longs in my three .32 S&W snubbies: The Fiocchi 97 gr FMJ, Fiocchi 100 gr LWC, and Magtech 98 gr SJHP. I occasionally step it up a little with a few Federal 85 gr JHP .32 magnums. Front to back are models 631, 631LS, and 632.