kwill1911
Member
Thanks, Ric, and my apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread.
Kevin Williams
Kevin Williams
S&W Model 15 .38 as USAF Commemorative
- Thread starter Gatofeo
- Start date
agree on a tasteful subdued military tribute smith- I might suggest since the .mil in all branches used smith revolvers for a long time-
A model 15 4" for the air force,model 10 4" for the other sevices, with a certain # for each service with grip medallions for each service
A model 15 4" for the air force,model 10 4" for the other sevices, with a certain # for each service with grip medallions for each service
Even though I have a 15-2, 15-3, 15-4 and 67-0 on hand, I'd likely purchase a commemorative 15-whatever if Smith were to offer one.
My -2 is appropriate to the period of M-15 production. I carried the M-15 while on missile combat crew, serving with the 740SMS/91SMW at Minot and subsequently at several command posts in Europe and CONUS.
Wonders can be performed with laser etching but I believe the droids at Smith would be hard-pressed to include the USAF, SAC, TAC & MAC coats of arms, along with the must-have sky cop badge on the somewhat small K-frame.
Could Smith produce a series of commemoratives, each with the USAF arms plus one other? E.g.: USAF/SAC, USAF/TAC, USAF/MAC and USAF/COP BADGE? Perhaps even a USAF/USAFE? I suspect a few of us Ol' Fahrts might spring for more than one. I served in SAC, USAFE and MAC. Inevitably, a few fanatics would want to collect the entire series.
My -2 is appropriate to the period of M-15 production. I carried the M-15 while on missile combat crew, serving with the 740SMS/91SMW at Minot and subsequently at several command posts in Europe and CONUS.
Wonders can be performed with laser etching but I believe the droids at Smith would be hard-pressed to include the USAF, SAC, TAC & MAC coats of arms, along with the must-have sky cop badge on the somewhat small K-frame.
Could Smith produce a series of commemoratives, each with the USAF arms plus one other? E.g.: USAF/SAC, USAF/TAC, USAF/MAC and USAF/COP BADGE? Perhaps even a USAF/USAFE? I suspect a few of us Ol' Fahrts might spring for more than one. I served in SAC, USAFE and MAC. Inevitably, a few fanatics would want to collect the entire series.
Attachments
I would buy a commemorative M15 in a heart beat. I was an LE and flight line SP from 1966-70 (Lackland AFB, RAF Alconbury & Fortuna AFS ND) and carried the M15 throughout that period. I still have my original holster and belt - don't have any idea how it ended up in my duffel bag when I left the UK. For sentimental reasons I purchased a M15 in the early 70's and it is still my favorite revolver.
It's nice to hear from so many former SP's and their experiences with the M15.
It's nice to hear from so many former SP's and their experiences with the M15.
F224
Member
I was a T-39 Crew Chief at Offutt AFB '77-'80 (CinC-SAC's airplane). I just asked to shoot one, next thing I knew, I was in the M-15 orientation course the pilots attended annually. Got to shoot about 300 rounds in one day. I will buy one if S&W will build them.
CookE
Member
Anyone out there that has or knows where I can find a Model 15, 4" barrel in fairly good shape. I'm building a shadow box for my only son of all the guns I have carried on duty for the last 42 years (I'm still working & carrying a Model 586 with a Crimson Sight on it). When we go to the range to qualify I still out shoot all the "AUTOS". I was the first officer in our county to carry an SEMI-AUTO (Colt Gold Cup .45) on duty. Everyone else was carrying those (Ole' Revolvers). 42 years later, I AM THE ONLY OFFICER CARRYING A REVOLVER, everyone else are carrying those (Ole' SEMI-AUTOS). Funny how things have a tendency to make FULL CIRCLE. My first service gun was a S&W Model 15, 4"barrel. Next one was the Model 14, 6"barrel. Then came the .45 Colt Gold Cup and then a S&W Model 586, traded that for a SIG SAUER 226. Went back to a S&W MODEL 586 WITH A CRIMSON SIGHT AND I AM STILL CARRYING THAT TODAY. I will carry that until I go to that
until I absolutely cannot work anymore. I hope and pray that will be many years in the making. I was lucky enough to get back all my guns I carried EXCEPT MY MODEL 15...............THANKS...............CookE
until I absolutely cannot work anymore. I hope and pray that will be many years in the making. I was lucky enough to get back all my guns I carried EXCEPT MY MODEL 15...............THANKS...............CookE
supersmitt
US Veteran
Any news about the S&W model 15 Security Police pistol that the company was asked to produce? I would really love to have one to go into a display case. If there has not been an answer from S&W, let us know and we will start a massive letter campaign. I believe all of us who served deserve a little recognition, and a commemorative weapon would be a good start.
OP
Gatofeo
Member
I sent letters to Smith & Wesson in November and April, 2009, and late August of 2010.
I have never received a reply or acknowledgement.
If you wish to urge Smith & Wesson to produce this commemorative, its address is:
Smith & Wesson
2100 Roosevelt Avenue
Springfield, MA 01104
I put my letters to the attention of Research & Development and the Custom Shop. I'm uncertain exactly which department to send such a proposal, but figured they'd forward to the proper department if I erred.
The following is an excerpt from the August 2010 letter. I pointed out the popularity of the idea in this website, then listed what I'd like to see as a commemorative:
Here’s what I’d like to see in a standard U.S. Air Force Commemorative Model 15:
Frame: K, blued steel.
Barrel: 4”, thin, as were the originals. The thinner barrel gives better balance in my view. However, to keep costs down, the present heavier barrel of the Model 67 could be used.
Sights: Adjustable, as used in the Model 67. However, for this commemorative it would be best to eliminate the red insert in the front sight. The original military models had no such insert.
Hammer: Wide, target, case-hardened.
Trigger: wide, target, case-hardened.
Cylinder: Fluted as were the originals, no or minimal engraving (see below)
Grips: Synthetic, as in the current M67, but in dark blue instead of black. Perhaps the USAF, SAC or Security Police shield could be molded into them.
Engraving:
On the right frame: The USAF seal.
Since posting my wish, others have said they’d like to see a Strategic Air Command (SAC) seal in place of the Air Force Seal. I think that the USAF seal should remain prominent on the right side of the frame. Perhaps a miniature SAC or Security Police shield could be on the left frame.
Along the barrel: For Those In Blue Who Defended America engraved, or something similar. Please avoid any “wild blue yonder” references from the Air Force song. Everyone I ever met hated that corny song. I’m sure they still do.
Cylinder: No engraving is suggested. It’s always difficult to read and wears quickly. Or, the USAF “star and bar” roundel typically seen on aircraft could be roll engraved on the cylinder.
Serial number: Specially numbered with an AF prefix.
Actually, the Smith & Wesson .38 revolver served all branches since at least the 1930s. So why not extend the commemorative to honor other branches as well?
The Navy model could have a USN prefix, MC for Marines, A for Army, CG for Coast Guard. This would expand the market considerably.
Packaging: Smith & Wesson plastic boxes are already blue; retain that but perhaps print the Air Force seal on the lid in white. Or it could be moulded into the plastic.
Serial No. 1 should be presented to the Security Police Museum at Lackland Air Force Base, in San Antonio, Texas. It would be great publicity, and excellent advertising for the commemorative revolver. Gun magazines would welcome the presentation photo, I’m sure.
The above ideas were sent to Smith & Wesson in all three letters.
Perhaps if fellow readers here send a letter to S&W, it will at least ponder the idea.
I have never received a reply or acknowledgement.
If you wish to urge Smith & Wesson to produce this commemorative, its address is:
Smith & Wesson
2100 Roosevelt Avenue
Springfield, MA 01104
I put my letters to the attention of Research & Development and the Custom Shop. I'm uncertain exactly which department to send such a proposal, but figured they'd forward to the proper department if I erred.
The following is an excerpt from the August 2010 letter. I pointed out the popularity of the idea in this website, then listed what I'd like to see as a commemorative:
Here’s what I’d like to see in a standard U.S. Air Force Commemorative Model 15:
Frame: K, blued steel.
Barrel: 4”, thin, as were the originals. The thinner barrel gives better balance in my view. However, to keep costs down, the present heavier barrel of the Model 67 could be used.
Sights: Adjustable, as used in the Model 67. However, for this commemorative it would be best to eliminate the red insert in the front sight. The original military models had no such insert.
Hammer: Wide, target, case-hardened.
Trigger: wide, target, case-hardened.
Cylinder: Fluted as were the originals, no or minimal engraving (see below)
Grips: Synthetic, as in the current M67, but in dark blue instead of black. Perhaps the USAF, SAC or Security Police shield could be molded into them.
Engraving:
On the right frame: The USAF seal.
Since posting my wish, others have said they’d like to see a Strategic Air Command (SAC) seal in place of the Air Force Seal. I think that the USAF seal should remain prominent on the right side of the frame. Perhaps a miniature SAC or Security Police shield could be on the left frame.
Along the barrel: For Those In Blue Who Defended America engraved, or something similar. Please avoid any “wild blue yonder” references from the Air Force song. Everyone I ever met hated that corny song. I’m sure they still do.
Cylinder: No engraving is suggested. It’s always difficult to read and wears quickly. Or, the USAF “star and bar” roundel typically seen on aircraft could be roll engraved on the cylinder.
Serial number: Specially numbered with an AF prefix.
Actually, the Smith & Wesson .38 revolver served all branches since at least the 1930s. So why not extend the commemorative to honor other branches as well?
The Navy model could have a USN prefix, MC for Marines, A for Army, CG for Coast Guard. This would expand the market considerably.
Packaging: Smith & Wesson plastic boxes are already blue; retain that but perhaps print the Air Force seal on the lid in white. Or it could be moulded into the plastic.
Serial No. 1 should be presented to the Security Police Museum at Lackland Air Force Base, in San Antonio, Texas. It would be great publicity, and excellent advertising for the commemorative revolver. Gun magazines would welcome the presentation photo, I’m sure.
The above ideas were sent to Smith & Wesson in all three letters.
Perhaps if fellow readers here send a letter to S&W, it will at least ponder the idea.
supersmitt
US Veteran
I will be glad to take up this cause, I served as an Air Force Security specialist and Law Enforcement specialist, then worked as a civilian O.S.I. agent for more than 20 years. I think a mass letter campaign might be the best way to get there attention. We need to get the word out to as many members here as we can, and I still have some high ranking contacts in the military who I'm sure would be willing to help. No disrespect to the other branches, but I think we need to work on one special issue at a time. If we can convince them to go through with that, then we will have a base for getting the others. Don't give up, and thank you for getting this started. Spec. Agent G.Smith (ret)
Excellent idea as long as they made it without the IL. I think an engraving of the old Air Police Badge would be nice, instead of the SAC emblem, as I was in TAC and have no connection to SAC. I served from 1963 to 1967.
OP
Gatofeo
Member
Well, since I started this thread I've been amazed the responses.
Many thanks for the support.
I'd prefer that they make a "generic" commemorative with the USAF shield and perhaps the roundel on the cylinder. This would increase chances that the revolvers gets made.
I know some folks would like to see the logos of SAC, Air Police, Security Police, MAC and probably a few FTAs too ... heh heh.
But I feel we lose our collective might by diluting it with too many specialized requests. And frankly, a USAF commemorative Model 15 would represent anyone who was in, regardless of their command.
I know ... I know ... I originally wanted a Security Police shield on it but now I see that's a bit much to ask. If a generic USAF commemorative sold well, then perhaps a few hundred or thousand could be produced with the more specialized markings.
I don't know. Seems like we'd be lucky to get Smith & Wesson to make a USAF commemorative, let alone a special model within a commemorative.
As for the absence of the hammer lock: that's not going to happen. I'm sure it will be included, even though it's not authentic. Deleting it would require retooling. I'm sure Smith & Wesson would rather avoid the bother and just incorporate it. I'm not sure, but they may have legal obligations to include it now.
Personally, I don't find the hammer lock very intrusive. I don't use it, and I don't notice it on my J-frame 637 snubbie.
We're at the mercy of Smith & Wesson. If S&W even considers producing such a commemorative revolver, we'll be lucky. If it decides to go ahead with production, we'll be enormously lucky.
Do you have any idea how many letters every gun maker gets a day whose theme is, "Hey, why don't you guys make a ..."?
Personally, I think a USAF commemorative Model 15 would sell. Even if S&W just made the Model 67 (the stainless steel version of the Model 15) with some USAF-inspired engraving and lettering, I'd be happy.
I'd be happier with a blued version, identical to what I carried, but I also recognize that S&W is a business and it can't meander too far from the profit line.
One other thing occurs to me: Smith & Wesson also has to ponder what precedent it may set with this commemorative. Surely, veterans of the Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard will want their own commemorative too.
And then there's all the retired cops who carried an M15 long ago. What about an M15 commemorative for the boys in blue?
And yet another for homicide detectives?
And the "Dirty Harry" fans want their own M29 commemorative.
Oh, and the Marines suddenly don't want a .38, but the 1911 .45 ACP that S&W produces.
Producing a USAF commemorative could put Smith & Wesson on a road to maddening requests, bordering on demands because, "You did it for the Air Force guys, so why not our group?"
Remember, this would be in addition to normal production demands.
Let's hope that we can convince Smith & Wesson to produce a Model 15 or even a Model 67 to recognize the USAF veterans who carried their product for decades.
A concerted letter-writing campaign will certainly help, so get to writing. No emails, an honest ink-on-paper letter carries more weight.
Many thanks for the support.
I'd prefer that they make a "generic" commemorative with the USAF shield and perhaps the roundel on the cylinder. This would increase chances that the revolvers gets made.
I know some folks would like to see the logos of SAC, Air Police, Security Police, MAC and probably a few FTAs too ... heh heh.
But I feel we lose our collective might by diluting it with too many specialized requests. And frankly, a USAF commemorative Model 15 would represent anyone who was in, regardless of their command.
I know ... I know ... I originally wanted a Security Police shield on it but now I see that's a bit much to ask. If a generic USAF commemorative sold well, then perhaps a few hundred or thousand could be produced with the more specialized markings.
I don't know. Seems like we'd be lucky to get Smith & Wesson to make a USAF commemorative, let alone a special model within a commemorative.
As for the absence of the hammer lock: that's not going to happen. I'm sure it will be included, even though it's not authentic. Deleting it would require retooling. I'm sure Smith & Wesson would rather avoid the bother and just incorporate it. I'm not sure, but they may have legal obligations to include it now.
Personally, I don't find the hammer lock very intrusive. I don't use it, and I don't notice it on my J-frame 637 snubbie.
We're at the mercy of Smith & Wesson. If S&W even considers producing such a commemorative revolver, we'll be lucky. If it decides to go ahead with production, we'll be enormously lucky.
Do you have any idea how many letters every gun maker gets a day whose theme is, "Hey, why don't you guys make a ..."?
Personally, I think a USAF commemorative Model 15 would sell. Even if S&W just made the Model 67 (the stainless steel version of the Model 15) with some USAF-inspired engraving and lettering, I'd be happy.
I'd be happier with a blued version, identical to what I carried, but I also recognize that S&W is a business and it can't meander too far from the profit line.
One other thing occurs to me: Smith & Wesson also has to ponder what precedent it may set with this commemorative. Surely, veterans of the Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard will want their own commemorative too.
And then there's all the retired cops who carried an M15 long ago. What about an M15 commemorative for the boys in blue?
And yet another for homicide detectives?
And the "Dirty Harry" fans want their own M29 commemorative.
Oh, and the Marines suddenly don't want a .38, but the 1911 .45 ACP that S&W produces.
Producing a USAF commemorative could put Smith & Wesson on a road to maddening requests, bordering on demands because, "You did it for the Air Force guys, so why not our group?"
Remember, this would be in addition to normal production demands.
Let's hope that we can convince Smith & Wesson to produce a Model 15 or even a Model 67 to recognize the USAF veterans who carried their product for decades.
A concerted letter-writing campaign will certainly help, so get to writing. No emails, an honest ink-on-paper letter carries more weight.
F224
Member
We might be going about this the wrong way. S&W will build anything your willing to buy, if your a large distributor and can order 500 or 5000 units. That said, approaching one of the big guys like Davidson's and having them order 500 units would probably get a quicker response than dealing directly with S&W through a letter writing campaign.
supersmitt
US Veteran
F224, can you contact the big guys like Davidson's to see if they would be willing to make such an order and incorporate the ideas agreed upon by this forum, or is that something better done by as many of us as possible? Spec. Agnt. G. Smith
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i carried a M15 4" in the 70's as a LEO....just a super nice gun...i cannot recall who i sold it to but...just last week i found one at my local dealers, this one shipped from S&W dec.1970...yep....i had to pick it up....a very nice one for sure
F224
Member
I will talk to S&W at the Reno SCI Convention about the idea of a commerative. They usually have someone from the Custom Shop along with the head of marketing there. It is in late January.
supersmitt
US Veteran
Thank you for your help, I know alot of us ex Air Force cops would love to see them get made. Please keep us up to date on anything you can find out, and again, thank you. Spec. Agnt. G.Smith O.S.I. (ret.)
gunblade
Member
Wow...excellent thread on the old M15. A trip down memory lane for me too! I was a CATM instructor in the USAF from 1983-2003. Carried and trained folks on the M15 until the M9 was adopted...also remember the 2" versions, and the old chopped down 1911A1 the OSI used for while. Would be nice to see some of those old guns hit the civilian market. I know I helped pack up hundreds of M15s and shipped them off to Warner Robins when they were replaced...bet they're still sitting in some warehouse down there.
F224
Member
I will ask S&W if they would do it and which distributor to go to inorder to get them done. I would think both M15's for the USAF and M10's (w/lanyard loops) for the other services would sell well.
gunblade
Member
If this were to happen, I hope they don't give the M15 the same treatment as the heritage revolvers with the lock, frame mounted firing pins, etc. Leave it as it was.
OP
Gatofeo
Member
If Smith & Wesson makes the commemorative, you can expect it to have the lock and frame-mounted firing pin. Frankly, you can't expect Smith & Wesson to foresake its current tooling, retool, and produce a version it considers obsolete.
Face it, the lock and frame-mounted firing pin are with us. Smith & Wesson isn't going to set a precedent and return to the earlier version. If it did, numerous other shooters would want TWO versions of each model -- and that's not going to happen.
If S&W produced a model without the lock, the first time some child or teenager hurt himself or others with it, the company would face a slew of lawsuits for manufacturing an "obsolete, dangerous" weapon.
We'll be lucky to get the revolver made, let alone a version no longer produced. We must be realistic.
Face it, the lock and frame-mounted firing pin are with us. Smith & Wesson isn't going to set a precedent and return to the earlier version. If it did, numerous other shooters would want TWO versions of each model -- and that's not going to happen.
If S&W produced a model without the lock, the first time some child or teenager hurt himself or others with it, the company would face a slew of lawsuits for manufacturing an "obsolete, dangerous" weapon.
We'll be lucky to get the revolver made, let alone a version no longer produced. We must be realistic.
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