Virtues of the 4516

The 457 is pretty close to the 4516 but it is about 6 ounces lighter. I have been carrying the stainless 457S for about the last month or so and it is easy to carry and conceal. The blue 457 can be bought used in decent shape for about $300 - $350. The 457S usually goes for about $400.

Bill
 
A 4516 is a tough act to follow, that's for sure.

I improved on mine by getting the Shorty Forty Five. Oh my. Very hard to find, but well worth the hunt. Like this:

Short45s002.jpg



Cat
 
Nope, 'fraid not. I live about 20 miles outside of Libby, but I served all of my career in other states.
 
I was re-reading this thread and it made me decide to send my 4516-1 off to Novak's to have them do the reliability package, bead blast finish, duty carry trigger pull and Novak logo on the slide. Oh, and night sights too.

I like this little pistol.

Another deputy showed up at annual qualification with one...it's good to see the 3rd gen making a come back.
 
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I was re-reading this thread and it made me decide to send my 4516-1 off to Novak's to have them do the reliability package, bead blast finish, duty carry trigger pull and Novak logo on the slide. Oh, and night sights too.

I like this little pistol.

Another deputy showed up at annual qualification with one...it's good to see the 3rd gen making a come back.

May I ask what the trigger work cost?
 
This is my first time on this site. I have 4516-2 that bought new in 1998. I cannot recall ever having a malfunction. Just plain reliable with nice double action/single action feature.

Lately, I have been thinking about trading for something newer so I would not have to worry about parts availability, plus I could go for a little less weight.

I have started looking at the HK45 USP Compact, and Sig P250. But frankly, I cannot find anything that has all the features of my 4516. I was almost sold on the P250, but as i can see this unit is completely double action mode. If it worked like my 4516 I would probably spring for one. The HK appears to work like a 1911, cocked and locked feature which I do not like. Overall, I am not sure the HK price totally equals the value.

I have thought about looking for a 4513TSW with the accessory rail. This would be a little lighter. I am not sure about overall reliability with the aluminum frame. But, based on everything I have looked at, I think I would trade for a nice 4513TSW/Rail or just stick with what i have and keep lifting weights.

It would be interesting to get some feedback on this.


Thanks
 
The aluminum frame in the Model 4513 holds up just fine with both standard pressure and Plus-P ammunition. The .45 ACP has relatively low pressure limits, 21,000 psi, and most rounds produced less than that, anywhere from 11,500 psi with target 185 gr. bullets to the 230 gr bullet pushed to 830 fps by 19,000 psi. Plus-P loadings are a little more stiff, the 230 grain Plus-P loading gives you less than 100 fps extra over standard pressure in .45 ACP with pressures at about 21,000 psi. So it is some extra wear, but I don't see it as significant.

i have shot an aluminum frame .45 ACP compact pistol as my duty weapon for the last 17 years, a Colt Lightweight Commander, which is in the roughly same strength class as the M-4513. Some years have seen 1,500 or 2,000 rounds fired, some years as few as 500 rounds fired. These have all been Federal brand, 230 grain, with standard presure FMJ ball being fired about 2/3 of the time, Plus-P 1/3 of the time. There isn't much different feel in the recoil between the two catridges fired in the same gun. Just this year, I replaced all the springs in the gun with new ones from Colt, and couple years before that I replaced the original spings with a standard set from Wolfs.

My gun is still just fine. I don't think a diet of quality factory-loaded ammo from any of our big producers would damage your aluminum frame 4513 or wear it excessivley.
 
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I wouldn't worry about wearing out a 4513TSW. I've fired many thousands of rounds through that model without a problem. The wear on the aluminum frame shoulders concerned me greatly at first. But it appears to wear to a point and stop. The 4513's are fine carry 45's. One of my personal favorites. I've bet my life on them and have no complaints.

As to the HK USP 45 compact's, they are fine pistols. They are available in DA/SA as well as with the LEM DAO trigger. The LEM variant I tried was not for me. I own the traditional double action variant.

While the 4516 is a fine pistol and I am an ardent fan, the USP 45 compact is superior to the S&W 45 compacts in a couple of areas. Weight and capacity being the primary USP compact advantages. The USP 45 compact carries 9 rounds vice the 4516's 8 rounds. Fully loaded the USP 45 compact is still lighter than the 4516. I have also found that the USP 45 compact is slightly more accurate than my standard production S&W 45 compacts and almost as accurate as my Performance Center Shorty 45. Almost.

The only category the USP 45 compact fails in, for me, is its double action trigger pull. The USP 45 compacts DA trigger is almost as bad as the M&P's trigger. Almost ;) . Slightly gritty, heavy and stacks before the break. SA is as good as any 1911 I've shot and on par with the S&W 3rd gen 45's. Very crisp. I guess thats why so many users carry their USP cocked and locked. All of the traditional double action USP variants are capable of cocked and locked carry. The USP was designed with some 1911 features in mind. I have found that the USP 45 compacts DA trigger does smooth out as you "wear it in". Not enougth, for me, to date.

I am currently going to see an HK armorer in Asheville NC. He claims he can improve the DA trigger pull on my HK USP 45 compact by smoothing a few parts and changing out a hammer spring. We'll see.

As far as the HK USP prices are concerned, you get what you pay for - in the case of HK products anyway. I've owned HK USP handguns since 1995. I currently own 4 and have owned several others over the years that I've sold for various reasons - none of those reasons being the HK handgun itself. :) I've yet to pay more than $650 for an HK product. Deals are out there if you look around a little.

People who pay full retail are usually in a hurry or don't know what a gun is worth, in my experience. Personally, I will gladly pay $700 for an HK pistol I want. I know it will be accurate and reliable right out of the box, with no need to rebuild a brand new gun using Apex parts or aftermarket barrels, just to make it useable. ;)

Police trade ins are bargains. Some light holster wear - thats it. The guns shoot like brand new. Last June I picked up an HK USP 45 compact with original case, three mags and Trijicon night sights. $479 OTD at Lawmans Safety supply in Raleigh NC. Last December I picked up a USP full size 45 with case, three mags and Trijicon night sights for $650 OTD at Striechers police supply in Greensboro NC.

If you want, call Lawmens in Raliegh. They had around 20 USP 45 compacts left last time I was there and they ship out of state.

While I am a fan and proponent of the S&W 3rd gen 45's, I've got alot of time behind HK products and am a proponent of them as well. Other than the Walther PPQ, the HK's are the only polymer guns I own or want to own. Quality build, tack driving accuracy, bet your life reliability and they look good doing all that.

No need to mention HK's customer service either. In seventeen years I've never needed them. Neither has anyone else I know who owns them. Can't say that about other manufacturers. ;)

Good luck with your decision! Hope this helps! Regards 18DAI
 
I love my 4506 and found a clean 4516-1 w box and mags. Is $675 too much? What shouls a clean excellent 4516 run?


All these stories are great!
 
Can anyone tell me if it is legal to mount/slide a vertical forgrip on a handgun, that is without having to secure a tax stamp, etc.

The reason I ask is that I went to an upscale gun store today to take a close look at the HK 45 compact and USP compact. The clerk showed me a spring loaded, retractable vertical foregrip that would slide right on to the HK accessory rail. I ask him if you need to register something this as a AOW with BATF. He checked with higher up sources in the store and confirmed to me that it does not need to be registered. Can someone give me a validity check on this. If it does not need to be registered, then I might go ahead a trade my 4516-2 in for an HK with integrated accessory rail and slide-on foregrip

Thanks
 
18DAI said:
No need to mention HK's customer service either. In seventeen years I've never needed them. Neither has anyone else I know who owns them. Can't say that about other manufacturers.

Not sure what your sample size is, but there are plenty of folks that have needed HK service and report being sorely disappointed by the 'HK attitude' they receive in place of the sort mfg. experience you receive seem from someone like say S&W. Look over at M4carbine and you will find a mixture of love and hate for HK. Here is a copy and pasted example typical of fair number of poster's customer service experience.

"Interesting. I love Hk guns but I will not buy any due to the horrific customer service I have witness dealing with damaged guns. Private if you are LOE/Govt or in the gun business then you are usually covered otherwise private citizens having problems with a gun is usually not. They like to use the line "our guns are the best because we engneer them to be the best so if the customer had the firearm break they must have used it improperly to break it so it is not covered." Yes I actually was told that from HK and heard it ten years ago when I went through an Armorers course back at Sterling, Va. Pitty I like thier guns. I'm sure it will be back very soon."

Don't get me wrong, I get the appeal of HK, but some of the weapons are not the most ergonomic, the triggers are almost never better than something you have to learn to deal with, and while they can be found on the used market, new HK gun, mags and parts are almost alway sold at a pretty big premium, and while I think some of that premium is reflected (to a degree) in the product delivered, I do feel there is an HK surcharge above and beyond what that covers.
 

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