Cracked frames...

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We've all seen the threads on Airweight J frames cracking under the forcing cone. I just wonder...do regular steel frames and stainless steel framed Jaybirds crack as well? Or are they more robust than their Airweight bretheren?

The results of this thread could determine the future of my beloved model 38 Airweight Bodyguard. :(
 
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I’m a little curious if this has anything to do with the barrel being put under too much torque during the install, trying to force it in to meet the barrel to thread gap minimum, or if maybe these things just flat out shouldn’t be used with +P ammo like they are rated for. Any way you look at it the amount of metal under the barrel is pretty thin. I guess it isn’t too common but it is common enough that I’m questioning if I want to replace my cracked 637 for a new to me 642 or not. Maybe this is another issue like the K magnums that were supposed to be shot with .38’s and carried with .357’s? I don’t know. I’m just really let down since this is my first broken gun.
 
I suspect the alloy frames are more brittle, and the metal below the barrel shank in the J frame is thin, which contributes to the cracking. However, on one of the auction sites there is a model 65 with similar frame damage, so it must not be a solely J frame issue. I'd be very interested to hear about any N or L frames with similar damage.
 
I thought the N frame was a tank enough for the .44 and not crack there when made of steel, and I also thought the whole point of the L frame was to add steel to the K frame in that area??? I would not think you would get these issues with steel N and L frames. Now if we are talking alloy N and K/L frames, I have seen all sorts of frame damage on the scandium N frames mostly in the .44’s but also in .41 and 10mm. I’m not sure of the L frame scandium guns. When I learned of the L frame and its origin I was surprised to not see the same thing done to the N frame from all the horror stories about wrecked alloy frames. Maybe that time is coming due.
 
I'm not convinced ammo has anything to do with it. That section of the frame is very thin on all of the frame sizes and, if it's going to crack, that's the place it will.

I've never seen that problem with anything other than the Airweight J frames but I'm sure if someone cranked the barrel hard enough, any frame would crack there.
 
I’m a little curious if this has anything to do with the barrel being put under too much torque during the install, trying to force it in to meet the barrel to thread gap minimum, or if maybe these things just flat out shouldn’t be used with +P ammo like they are rated for...

I had a no dash 442 that I bought new in the early 90's that cracked. It never had +p ammo in it as they were never rated for it, and I had less than 125 rounds total thru it when I noticed the crack. Found the crack about 3 years ago when I had pulled it out of the safe where it had sat for several years. It was put away freshly cleaned and un-cracked.


I suspect the alloy frames are more brittle, and the metal below the barrel shank in the J frame is thin, which contributes to the cracking...

Im sure this is it. The frame is really thin right under the barrel.
The only ammo that went down my barrel was forty or so rounds of Fiocchi 147gr jsp, and about 75 rounds of UMC 130gr fmj/rn. Both non +p.

Maybe it cracked because it was upset with me for not shooting it enough. ;)



k.
 
I own many steel J frames, some as old as 1959 without any cracking. I own one that severed 24 years with the NYPD, the gun was feed over 10K in those years without issues.

I practice with my steel frame guns and when necessary I carry my alloy guns.
 
We've all seen the threads on Airweight J frames cracking under the forcing cone. I just wonder...do regular steel frames and stainless steel framed Jaybirds crack as well? Or are they more robust than their Airweight bretheren?

The results of this thread could determine the future of my beloved model 38 Airweight Bodyguard. :(

Just get the 640 your asking about elsewhere, and put old girl up!!!:D:D:D
 
Here is a photo of a cracked 1917, I heard that sometimes they don't crack until they are fired after a new barrel is installed.

1917crackedframe.jpg
 
Just get the 640 your asking about elsewhere, and put old girl up!!!:D:D:D

Well, that's just it Leighton. I don't "put guns up." I shoot 'em and tote 'em. And I doubt if S&W would help me with mine (if it got a crack) because of it's age (vintage 1985/86).

If I buy this 640, I'll probably trade the model 38 for a 649 or maybe a model 60.
 
Well, that's just it Leighton. I don't "put guns up." I shoot 'em and tote 'em. And I doubt if S&W would help me with mine (if it got a crack) because of it's age (vintage 1985/86).

If I buy this 640, I'll probably trade the model 38 for a 649 or maybe a model 60.

You should of never got rid of the 649 I sold you, or the model 60.
 
With all the cracked J frames I don't understand why S&W don't strength the frame in that area. I was thinking of trading/selling my Ruger SP101 to get a airweight J frame for pocket carry, but I think I will pass on them until I see some kind of improvement. My SP101 has close to 1000 rounds through it and it still looks and locks up like new.
 
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With all the cracked J frames I don't understand why S&W don't strength the frame in that area. I was thinking of trading/selling my Ruger SP101 to get a airweight J frame for pocket carry, but I think I will pass on them until I see some kind of improvement. My SP101 Has close to 1000 rounds through it and it still looks and locks up like new.

I've owned over a dozen (more or less) Airweights with thousands and thousands of rounds through them without any problems. The incidence rate of cracked frames has got to be one in ten thousands...

The SP101 is and excellent gun if you're looking for a small frame revolver in .357 magnum.

Edit to add: Spend $350 and buy yourself a 642. If you are the "lucky" one in a million and it cracks, ship it to S&W and they will send you a new one.
 
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I don't actually KNOW much of anything about frame cracking, but I've been reading about it for a long time. I thought that it was pretty much a settled issue that it was due to overtorquing the barrel, usually on an aluminum frame. The K frames have suffered from this just as the J frames have.

Glock guy, if I were you, I'd keep that Model 38. If you've fired it much before, and it hasn't cracked, it was probably one of the vast majority of aluminum-frame guns that had the barrel installed properly. If you want to buy another gun, go ahead. That's what this forum is for, to support addicts in their desire to buy another gun. But don't dump a perfectly good Bodyguard just because someone else's cracked. Just be happy that yours didn't.
 
Cracked frames aren't an epidemic with S&W, any more than the occasional dud off the assembly line for a quality auto maker. Is it unfortunate for the owner of the cracked pistol? Absolutely, but if handled properly with S&W customer service, said owner should receive a new revolver as a replacement in timely fashion.
 
Steel alloys have a dinstinctly unique property, the Fatigue Limit. If a steel alloy is exposed to cyclic stresses below the Fatigue Limit, it actually gains in strenhth and will NEVER fracture as long as it's stressed below the Fatigue Limit. It's why back in the early days of hot rodding and Nascar, the better engine builders would hit the junkyards looking for a high mileage engine out of a station wagon. Theory was that station wagons were used for hauling kids and normally driven quite gently. As a result, the connecting rods and crankshafts were stronger and able to withstand more "abuse" without failing. This pretty much faded away in the 70's with the factories introducing race specific rods and crankshafts. However, back in the mid 60's nearly every NASCAR team was building their race engines using parts scrounged from junkyard engines.

Aluminum, Brass, or any other non ferritic alloy doesn't have this particular property. As one Materials Professor put it in class one day, you could sink a 2 foot diameter bar of 6061-T6 aluminum into a concrete pad and snap it off at the base by pushing on it with one hand. It might take a million years but eventually that bar would snap.

IMO Fatigue is part of the reason why we are constantly seeing posts about cracked frames, it's partially a function of Fatigue. However, a contributing factor is the interference fit that S&W is now using to mount the barrels. That interference fit alone adds hoop stresses to this area and it will only speed up the Fatigue Process. IMO S&W should stop using an interference fit on the alloy frame and instead change to a "close clearance" fit and use something like Locktite Red to insure the barrels won't shoot loose. That would reduce the Hoop stresses in this area and extend the life of the frame. They'll still crack eventually but who's going to care if that happens after 30 or 40 thousand rounds fired.

BTW, I was taught about the Fatigue Limit in steel alloys in 1974. From what I've seen of recent Engineering grads today, subjects like this are no longer covered. Steel has such a high density that in some circles it's become Politically Incorrect to point out that steel still has some distinct advantages over any other alloy.
 
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The frame on my 686-6 cracked just below the forcing cone. Only shot factory loads from the big three in it, probably <1000 rounds total before it cracked. So, these are not immune to the ailment. S&W replaced the frame.
 
I noticed the discussion has been about AirWeight aluminum frames. What about AirLite aluminum/scandium alloy frames...any issues there?

If the AirLite frame is indeed stronger (should be seeing they are rated for .357's), why not spend the extra money for an M&P340 for instance rather than a 442. Just shoot .38+P's in it and have some peace of mind....
 
Go for an old steel framed model 49, the earlier the better and they seem to be cheaper too, I got mine for about 375 and its a pre dash model (circa early 1960's I think) that was carried but never opened or shot (the connecting bits on the back of the cylinder are like brand new)

that way you avoid that issue as well as this one with the new ones:
The Gun Zone -- S&W Model 340PD

and avoid the +p ammo too it WILL damage it along with any other 38 from that time period steel or otherwise, you shouldnt need +p to begin with anyways if your using Keith style bullets or hollowpoints.

after all its the area and grainage of the bullet that makes the difference, not the velocity.
 
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