I carry a Glock 21 when in the city. When on camp outs I carry a .500 S&W in a shoulder rig as well. Now sometimes I cant open carry the .500 because I will be at an outdoor event. For these situations I need a smaller easier to conceal power house. Looking at the Night Guard .44 magnum but worried the 2.5 inch barrel will kil velocity and penetration of the .44 mag? Is this true? Should I look to other options for black, brown bear and other dangerous game defense? Black bear are the largest problem but I do travel to northern main and such as well. I find that I dont carry the .500 50 percent of the time and need something smaller.
Night Guard 44magnum for black bear?
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Yes, the barrel is short, but myself I'd be more worried about the frame cracking on the Nite Guard...of course, you could always THROW the broken revolver at the bear and hope it knocks him out! 
Dennis The B
US Veteran
All-steel...
...frame and a 300gr bullet.
...frame and a 300gr bullet.
rburg
Member
The night guard has a short barrel. The garden variety 329 has a longer barrel, but its still light enough to be carried all the time. The 4" steel revolver is a lot heavier, and correspondingly, a burden.
They tell us that in a close quarters gun fight, we never even remember the recoil. I've got 2 of the 329s, and I find the recoil from the 240 grain factory just too much. I have a couple of boxes of 300 grain loads, and its just so unpleasant I use them to allow friends (former) to shoot my 329s.
I'm going to try some 180 gr Super Vel loads I bought at a gun show recently.
We debate how much power it takes to stop a black bear (or Griz) all the time. Black bears vary all over the place in weight and muscle mass. Most of us also know the preferred weapon is a rifle (or shotgun with slugs.) They're also to bulky to carry everywhere. An objective view would be the 44 mag is too little gun, be it 180, 240, or 300 grain.
Another approach is to consider some wisdom of using a 9mm over a .45 ACP. The theory is the added penetration of the 9mm (and the assumed additional hits) make it a better gun using FMJ ammo. Think about that one for a while. It might have merit.
So if you like the concept, also consider the 7 shot 386 using nice hardcast bullets. The 357 sure would be easier to control, and the gun would be easier to carry everyplace.
We've never answered the question, but we debate it no end.
Please tell us if the blackie you lust after weighs 200# or 900#. The correct answer to your question will depend on how you answer mine.
They tell us that in a close quarters gun fight, we never even remember the recoil. I've got 2 of the 329s, and I find the recoil from the 240 grain factory just too much. I have a couple of boxes of 300 grain loads, and its just so unpleasant I use them to allow friends (former) to shoot my 329s.
I'm going to try some 180 gr Super Vel loads I bought at a gun show recently. We debate how much power it takes to stop a black bear (or Griz) all the time. Black bears vary all over the place in weight and muscle mass. Most of us also know the preferred weapon is a rifle (or shotgun with slugs.) They're also to bulky to carry everywhere. An objective view would be the 44 mag is too little gun, be it 180, 240, or 300 grain.
Another approach is to consider some wisdom of using a 9mm over a .45 ACP. The theory is the added penetration of the 9mm (and the assumed additional hits) make it a better gun using FMJ ammo. Think about that one for a while. It might have merit.
So if you like the concept, also consider the 7 shot 386 using nice hardcast bullets. The 357 sure would be easier to control, and the gun would be easier to carry everyplace.
We've never answered the question, but we debate it no end.
Please tell us if the blackie you lust after weighs 200# or 900#. The correct answer to your question will depend on how you answer mine.
yukonb
Member
I know your question was about the 44 mag Night Guard but. I have carried and still do a model 19, 357 mag with confidence while hiking in black bear country for years. It is light to carry and easy to control for multiple shots and powerful enough to get the job done. After all shooting the bear is just a last resort anyway. That said I am a firm believer that a good bear spray like Counter Assault Bear spray is the best protection for you and the bear. I will probably get flamed for recommending bear spray on a gun forum, but it is used successfully by many hikers in bear country.
Bear spray is OK, usually works on Back Bear. Wouldn't count on it for a Grizz or a Brownie (AKA known as MISTER BEAR)).
For Blackies a .357 with a heavy hard cast SCW that will penetrate will do OK, not so much for Blackies larger relatives.
For bear penetration is the name of the game. Any bear has a thick hard skull, and his spinal cord is protected by slabs of muscle and heavy fat. For an instant stop a CNS hit (meaning brain or spine shot) is absolutely necessary. You may kill a bear with a .32 long, but he will be on his last dinner course before he dies, and you will be being digested.
With any bear prevention is best, that is make sure he knows you are coming, stay away from those cute little bear cubs, don't leave food around, and don't smell or act like dinner.
But some bear/man interface is at times unavoidable, and if that happens, one had better be prepared. And that means having a weapon that will penetrate AND have the ability to make a CNS hit at a humping swaying beast coming at you at over 30 MPH.
Think about it before you start thinking you can do that with any weapon.
For Blackies a .357 with a heavy hard cast SCW that will penetrate will do OK, not so much for Blackies larger relatives.
For bear penetration is the name of the game. Any bear has a thick hard skull, and his spinal cord is protected by slabs of muscle and heavy fat. For an instant stop a CNS hit (meaning brain or spine shot) is absolutely necessary. You may kill a bear with a .32 long, but he will be on his last dinner course before he dies, and you will be being digested.
With any bear prevention is best, that is make sure he knows you are coming, stay away from those cute little bear cubs, don't leave food around, and don't smell or act like dinner.
But some bear/man interface is at times unavoidable, and if that happens, one had better be prepared. And that means having a weapon that will penetrate AND have the ability to make a CNS hit at a humping swaying beast coming at you at over 30 MPH.
Think about it before you start thinking you can do that with any weapon.
Maximumbob54
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Velocity with standard .44 magnum is still worthy in a 2.5 inch barrel, but I would worry if you could get a second shot out very fast. I shot some 185 Remington and I would swear it kicked worse than the Winchester 240 that I used to buy. That may be like comparing the 125 in .357 with the 158 in .357 but I won't swear to that. A 629 with a 3 inch barrel might be the balance point you are looking for.
Yes, the barrel is short, but myself I'd be more worried about the frame cracking on the Nite Guard...of course, you could always THROW the broken revolver at the bear and hope it knocks him out!
Let me recant the part about the non-steel frames cracking (I thought the NG's had scandium or some other weak-azzed aluminum concoction of a frame) and say that instead:
"Yes, the barrel is short, but myself I'd be more worried about the keyhole lock mechanism jamming up on the Nite Guard at a time when you need it most...of course, you could always THROW the locked up revolver at the bear and hope it knocks him out!"
LOL!!!!
geoff40
Member
Kip
In all of North America there have been something like 63 fatal attacks by black bears since the year 1900. 86% of them happened in Alaska or Canada. About half involve circumstances that eliminate chance, random encounters. Predation by black bears is all but unheard of. The last attack here in NH was just a month or so ago, and involved a bear that had been getting fed, which is the usual story these days. The person was knocked to the ground, got scratched up a bit, then it was over. The last fatal attack in NH was over 200 years ago, though there are bears about everywhere here.
I've tried to research fatal black bear attacks, but they are so rare that there is very little information out there about them. For example, I wanted to know if there has ever been a case where a black bear charged, and someone with a gun fired, and just the shot itself did not turn the bear away? Like we all know, this has happened with grizzly bears, its even on video. I was not able to determine if this has ever happened with a black bear.
The usual encounter I have with a bear is that the bear turns away. So far, the biggest question has been does it walk or run? I wouldn't worry too much about them, carry what you feel you need out there, keeping in mind you are probably more likely to have a problem with a rabid fox or skunk than you are with a black bear.
http://www.maineguides.org/referendum/pdf/Bear_Attacks.pdf
In all of North America there have been something like 63 fatal attacks by black bears since the year 1900. 86% of them happened in Alaska or Canada. About half involve circumstances that eliminate chance, random encounters. Predation by black bears is all but unheard of. The last attack here in NH was just a month or so ago, and involved a bear that had been getting fed, which is the usual story these days. The person was knocked to the ground, got scratched up a bit, then it was over. The last fatal attack in NH was over 200 years ago, though there are bears about everywhere here.
I've tried to research fatal black bear attacks, but they are so rare that there is very little information out there about them. For example, I wanted to know if there has ever been a case where a black bear charged, and someone with a gun fired, and just the shot itself did not turn the bear away? Like we all know, this has happened with grizzly bears, its even on video. I was not able to determine if this has ever happened with a black bear.
The usual encounter I have with a bear is that the bear turns away. So far, the biggest question has been does it walk or run? I wouldn't worry too much about them, carry what you feel you need out there, keeping in mind you are probably more likely to have a problem with a rabid fox or skunk than you are with a black bear.
http://www.maineguides.org/referendum/pdf/Bear_Attacks.pdf
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redhawk444
Member
I don't want to start a Ruger/Smith argument here, but the 4" Redhawk in .45 LC would seem to be pretty much what you are looking for.
There is ammunition available from Buffalo Bore cartridge co. that make the .45 LC equal to the .44 Mg.
There is ammunition available from Buffalo Bore cartridge co. that make the .45 LC equal to the .44 Mg.
Mapko
Member
I feel assured/safe with this combo. My 629 and UDAP
Mark
PS: Especially NOW in view of the fatal attack in Y'Stone, my fly fishing destination every Sept-Oct.
Mark
PS: Especially NOW in view of the fatal attack in Y'Stone, my fly fishing destination every Sept-Oct.
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Don't know where you're going in Maine that you're encountering all of this dangerous game but the bear guides I know carry .357mags and .45s. I'm sure that any of the Night Guards in .357mag, .41mag, or .44mag would work fine for camp carry and be effective for the bears we have around here. When I go fishing or out in the woods I carry a .357.
BTW, as long as you stay away from calves, fawns, cubs - any of the babies - the chances of you being bothered are pretty slim.
BTW, as long as you stay away from calves, fawns, cubs - any of the babies - the chances of you being bothered are pretty slim.
WyoStillhunter
Member
geoff40 provides important context to this issue.
We have a few black bears in SE Wyoming and lots of mountain lions. There are also coyote, skunk, and porcupine on the loose. When I roam the mountains my 30 lb. spaniel is usually with me. So I always carry what I call skunkupine repellent to protect the dog from her own enthusiasm: .38 Special handloads in a S&W revolver, usually a 4" K-frame but sometimes a M36.
I feel adequately prepared to deal with anything I could possibly encounter for which a firearm would be needed. Well, almost anything...cow moose with calf is simply best avoided altogether.
Vigilence and awareness of my surroundings is always my best defence. Bottom line: any handgun that is adequate for protection in town is likely adequate in the mountains (grizzly bears and mother moose excepted).
We have a few black bears in SE Wyoming and lots of mountain lions. There are also coyote, skunk, and porcupine on the loose. When I roam the mountains my 30 lb. spaniel is usually with me. So I always carry what I call skunkupine repellent to protect the dog from her own enthusiasm: .38 Special handloads in a S&W revolver, usually a 4" K-frame but sometimes a M36.
I feel adequately prepared to deal with anything I could possibly encounter for which a firearm would be needed. Well, almost anything...cow moose with calf is simply best avoided altogether.
Vigilence and awareness of my surroundings is always my best defence. Bottom line: any handgun that is adequate for protection in town is likely adequate in the mountains (grizzly bears and mother moose excepted).
ColbyBruce
Member
Glock 29...ideal combination of weight, size, and power. If you lose it, you can replace it easily and for about what you paid for it, anywhere in the country. You also only have to worry about 1/2 of it rusting.
PA Reb
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The black bear here in Pennsylvania (although not near as many) make those in Maine look like loveable little toys! I've handled cub bears in the past when I worked for this state's wildlife conservation agency and I can tell you from those experiences that this animal, no matter what its size or weight, is nothing to mess with. I did however, take a bear in north-central Maine that weighed in the neighborhood of 200 pounds live with one shot from a S&W 4", 629, 240 grain JHP and it dropped faster than a concrete block headed to the bottom of a lake! So, in an "attack situation" from an animal as fast as a bear, its my opinion that penetration isn't all that is important. You also need a weapon capable of delivering a substantial knock-down blow, can be drawn and brought to a firing position quickly, and most importantly, the shooter must have confidence and skill with the chosen weapon of defense to deliver an accurate first shot to the chest cavity. Firing at the head of a bear that is intent on taking you out is a very poor choice and will more than likely leave you squirming and hurting (or worse) on the ground or in a tree! A 4", 41 or 44 magnum with a good heavy load in the hands of confidence is all you'll ever need even though your chances of having to re-act to this situation are slim to none!
Yes, the barrel is short, but myself I'd be more worried about the frame cracking on the Nite Guard...of course, you could always THROW the broken revolver at the bear and hope it knocks him out!
Wont the gun handle a 320 grain double tap round?
Where would you aim on a bear since I heard the skull deflects rounds and the blood pressure is low so a heart shot wont work well.
I dont like the barrel cone breakage on the 329.
Whats the muzzle velocity difference of the night guard and 4 inch 629 mountain gun? Will the smaller night guard make a huge difference in effectiveness and penetration?
I am going to be carrying the Glock 20 IWB but want a powerful revolver for bears. I dont want to end up with a hard kicking 5 shot gun with same bear effectiveness as my Glock 20.
Whats the muzzle velocity difference of the night guard and 4 inch 629 mountain gun? Will the smaller night guard make a huge difference in effectiveness and penetration?
I am going to be carrying the Glock 20 IWB but want a powerful revolver for bears. I dont want to end up with a hard kicking 5 shot gun with same bear effectiveness as my Glock 20.
batmann
Member
Instead of going with NG, why not go with a 629 Mountain Gun? Not a big difference in weight, but huge difference in shootability. 4" bbl, less recoil, stainless and you can shoot about any factory without worry of frame cracking. That's what they were designed for, carry in those situations.
Oh, I think they are less money to boot.
Oh, I think they are less money to boot.
Ruger Alaskan/Buffalo Bore
I have a Ruger Alaskan 2.5 inch snub capable of handling Buffalo Bore's 305 gr 44 mag lead cast bullet. Tim at Buffalo Bore emailed me saying that this round would fly at 1150 fps out of my snubby barrel and that it would penetrate a bear's skull. I think he knows his ammo, and I believe that I am protected from any Black bear I might encounter in Arizona. That's why I bought this particular gun and round.
I have a Ruger Alaskan 2.5 inch snub capable of handling Buffalo Bore's 305 gr 44 mag lead cast bullet. Tim at Buffalo Bore emailed me saying that this round would fly at 1150 fps out of my snubby barrel and that it would penetrate a bear's skull. I think he knows his ammo, and I believe that I am protected from any Black bear I might encounter in Arizona. That's why I bought this particular gun and round.
