Heavy Duty ammo

[Combat]

I recently purchased a .38 Outdoorsman. The person I got it from brought me this box of ammo he said came with it. On the back of the box it says "adapted ONLY to S&W 38-44, Outdoorsman, and Colt shooting master"...Can any one provide any info on these bullets such as age or value? Will they really penetrate metal? Here is a pic.

 

[semperfi71]

Hi, more knowledgeable people than me will be along but here goes my comments.

The ammunition you show is probably collectible, so don't shoot it. Since it is a lead bullet load, regardless of the claims that might be on the box it is not true "metal piercing" ammunition. But it will shoot through thin metal.

The original .38-44 ammunition was loaded to higher velocities, approximately 1150 fps with a 158 grain bullet, over the standard .38 Special. It was advertised as a more powerful round to penetrate the automobile bodies of the 1930's when it was introduced. As such it is considered too "hot" pressure wise for standard size .38 Special revolvers. This means that the round could be safely fired in the S&W "N" frame revolvers, the Colt New Service revolvers, and rarely spoken off but could also be fired in the Colt Official Police revolvers.

It was introduced in 1930?? and was exceeded by the introduction of the .357 Magnum in 1935. However the S&W revolvers that were made for the round, the Heavy Duty and the Outdoorsman, were made until 1960??. And in large numbers considering the production of the .357 revolvers.

And be forewarned, if you do not post pictures of your Outdoorsman many people here will claim you do not own one..........in other words we would love to see pics of your hogleg.

 

[Combat]

Here you go

Here is a pic. I also have a little story with the gun. The man I got it from said he bought it from a pawnshop in 1961 for the princely sum of $65.00.So I know from what he told me I'm the forth owner of this gun.Original owner, pawnshop, him and me. I think it's kind of cool to know that little bit of history.

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

As it says on the back of the box, this ammo was designed to be fired in the heavy duty revolvers.

The Remington Hi-Way Master 110LRN Metal Penetratimg is NOT your standard soft lead bullet. The bullet is actually constructed using high zinc content. So yes, it is considered metal penetrating compared to the old standard LRN.

 

[smith17]

CTG COLLECTOR:
Are you indicating that the ammo in the pic with the box is the original ammo?
Ed

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

CTG COLLECTOR:
Are you indicating that the ammo in the pic with the box is the original ammo?
Ed

Yes, 99% sure. I can tell by the taper of the 110gr bullet and the shininess of the bullet. The bullets do not have the same dull gray of standard lead bullets which is one of the giveaways.

I'll have to check my sample at home to see if it has the case cannilure in the same place as those in the OP's photo.

 

[stiab]

CTG COLLECTOR:
Are you indicating that the ammo in the pic with the box is the original ammo?
Ed

They are the original bullets. I have a full box, and they are identical to the ones pictured. Unlike regular lead bullets of the day, they are very hard and you cannot mark them with a fingernail. I believe they do qualify as "metal penetrating". I have not fired any yet, but do plan to chrono test a few of them.

 

[smith17]

Combat:
What is the exact headstamp on those cartridges?
Ed

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If that's an older 38/44 you might want to get a letter from S&W for it, especially since you know most of the linage.

That's a very nice revolver you have there, I'm envious...

 

[Texas Star]

The .38/44 guns were first offered in 1930 and discontinued in 1966. Some may have been sold after, from examples in stock and parts on hand.

Many saw no reason to carry one, for they were as heavy and bulky as a .357 Magnum, which was more versatile. The Model 27 did cost more, but after the M-19 amd the M-28 (in particular) became available, the cost difference was less an issue. More people could by then afford the pricier guns, too.


T-Star

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

Combat:
What is the exact headstamp on those cartridges?
Ed

smith17, the round I have in my collection is actually the Peters brand Highway Patrol round. Headstamp is: PETERS 38 SPL. It has a nickel case with small nickeled primer. Same location of the case cannilure as the brass cased rounds pictured by Combat.

I have several pictures of both the Rem Hi-Way Master and Peters Highway Patrol.

The cases for one of the Rem boxes is brass and stamped: R P 38 SPL (the usual dash "-" is missing from between the two letters).

The rounds from the Peters box is also brass cased and is stamped: - PETERS - 38 SPL.

It's interesting to note that in one of my pictures, on the back label of the brass cased Peters Highway Patrol rounds has "Remington Arms" on it.

 

[Combat]

Smith17, the stamp reads, REM UMC 38SPL. Hope this helps, Jeff

 

[semperfi71]

Thanks for the picture, you have a nice one.

And the info on the ammo is very educational.

 

[smith17]

Here are 2 pre-war (R code) Hi-Speed boxes. Interestingly, one spells the S&W revolver as an Outdoorsman, the other as Outdoorsman's. Also, neither mentions the Heavy Duty version of the 38/44.
When I locate all my ammo brochures, I will furnish Remington velocities.
Ed