How to CYB on private sales?

[Maximumbob54]

I did a local trade recently and the other guy did a little informal paper that we each signed and got a copy to keep. Is this kind of thing even a shred legal? Like if gun were to be used in a crime and they came back to me and all I have is a slip of paper stating that I traded said serial number off dated suchity such would that keep me from behind bars??? Not that I for a minute am sweating the trade, I just mean what does it take to really be legal and keep the law from getting all up in your business???

 

[old bear]

I just mean what does it take to really be legal and keep the law from getting all up in your business???

With so many lawyers involved in every aspect of lives today I can't answer that for certain. I can tell you that every F.T.F. sale or purchase I've done I've done a bill of sale, one copy to buyer and one copy for my records. . There are several online resources for assorted generic bills of sale. It may not be perfect but it's better than having to explain to some L/E, yea I did own that gun but I sold it to some guy in the parking lot of my local Wal-Mart six months ago

 

[ladder13]

I get a photocopy of the buyers DL, he gets a BOS.

"No tickie no shirtie"

 

[Harvester]

I agree with Ladder13! He goes one step further than me- I copy down the information from the purchaser's DL and put that at the top of the BOS also listing the date, Make/Model/Serial# of the firearm.

As for what is legal, I cannot say how your state may differ but in mine, where there is no local firearm registration like NY and NJ, we go by Federal law and there is no paperwork of any kind required for a private party firearms sale. The only reason I insist on the record I mentioned is for covering my own behind!

And I cover my behind because of this scenario: if a firearm is found at a crime scene- if necessary the authorities go to the manufacturer and, based upon the serial number, the manufacturer tells them which distributer/wholesaler they sold it to. Then the authorities ask the distributer what FFL dealer they sold it to and when asked the dealer tells the authorities which individual consumer they sold it to.

Presuming I was the individual who purchased the firearm new, that would then bring the authorites to my door at which time I would produce the BOS and suggest they speak with that individual who purchased the firearm from me. Should the authorities then go speak with that individual and they inform the autorities that they sold it and kept no records (because no records are required to be kept for a private party sale in much of the US) then the authorites may need to follow other leads to try and determine who used the firearm to commit the crime.

If you like, you may always go to a Gunshop or FFL dealer and have them log the firearm into their boundbook from you and log it out to the new purchaser. In my experience, that only costs $25 to $35 to do but I still prefer to do it the way Ladder13 mentioned.

Actually, in a perfect world, I prefer to never sell any of my firearms!!

~Harvester

 

[Rule3]

Bob,

In Florida you do not even need a bill of sale. Of course it is a good thing to have, the main thing IMHO is to get the persons DL number indicating that he is a Florida resident. I have not sold many guns privately but on my bill of sale said: I (name) a Fl resident sell to (name) a Fl resident a xyz gun serial number 12345 for $xxx. So and so(buyer) states he is a Fl resident and is not prohibited by law to purchase a firearm.

Sign, dated etc.

 

[redlevel]

it's better than having to explain to some L/E, yea I did own that gun but I sold it to some guy in the parking lot of my local Wal-Mart six months ago

It is perfectly legal to sell a gun to someone in the parking lot of a local Wal-Mart, at least in GA. I have bought/sold/traded in parking lots at Verizon, Hooters, Kroger, Northern Tools, Tractor Supply, my home, various truck stops, etc.

I offer to let a prospective seller see my DL and Georgia Weapons License. I will sign a simple BOS if someone wants me to. I absolutely would not volunteer or agree to anyone taking down my information from the DL or GWL.

I do most of my f/f deals with people from this forum and one other. Most are well known on the forum. I really believe that a non ffl seller might be opening himself to charges that he is "in the business" by requiring a whole lot more than the law requires.

 

[hatt]

I absolutely would not volunteer or agree to anyone taking down my information from the DL or GWL.

Me neither. I'd flash my DL if you just had to see it. But no copies. I also avoid any for sale items where the seller asks to see a permit. Sorry, you don't need a permit to buy in FL. Demanding one before a sale makes you a anti-gun hack IMO, and I'd rather not do business with you.

 

[ladder13]

Others who ask for ID,....gun stores, pawn shops, auction houses, FFL's, etc ......... jus' sayin'

 

[hatt]

Others who ask for ID,....gun stores, pawn shops, auction houses, FFL's, etc ......... jus' sayin'

They are required by law. They have no choice in the matter. I'm pretty sure if they didn't have to fill out all that mess most would happily take your cash and hand you a gun.

 

[redlevel]

Others who ask for ID,....gun stores, pawn shops, auction houses, FFL's, etc ......... jus' sayin'

I do what the law requires. I don't mind showing my DL and GWL. But I draw the line at a private seller recording that information.

The law in Georgia requires me to have a reasonable belief that the person I'm selling to is eligible to own/buy a firearm. Generally, the people I do business with have a good bit of positive feedback on the Georgia forum I frequent. I recently bought a Model 60 from a Georgia State Revenue Agent. I asked him if he needed to see my GWL. "Nah," he said. "You look honest to me." Without a doubt, he had checked my feedback on the forum he advertised the gun on. My Granddaddy would be appalled if he knew I was dealing with the "revenoors." That deal took place at a peach packing shed. Lots of sketchy characters in those places.

I have bought firearms from dealers (pawn shop, gun store, etc.) maybe a few times a year for the last ten years or so. I have no problem providing the documentation to them, because I know the law requires it. I don't buy/sell through the auction houses, so that isn't a factor.

 

[Harvester]

Agreed, gentlemen... where private party sales are not prohibited, it is totally within your purview to conduct such a transaction with no record or exchange of IDs. That is your prerogative and I do not believe anyone was questioning that decision- I certainly was not. I was simply sharing my perspective on how I would handle such a transaction with someone unknown to me.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with acknowledging the legality of such a transaction in your locality and acting accordingly- based upon those boundaries and your comfort level.

Personally, I choose to ascribe to the philosophy: "Hope for sun but prepare for rain."

~Harvester

 

[Rule3]

I buy all the cheap guns I can find, drive over to the "questionable" part of town, mark them up 500% and sell them out of my trunk. All the folks who buy them must be residents as they are there on the corner.

 

[Grog]

I absolutely would not volunteer or agree to anyone taking down my information from the DL or GWL.

I agree, way too many people having identity theft issues to go around volunteering information.

 

[CajunBass]

If we're doing a face to face sale, I give you the money, you give me the gun. I say thanks, you say thanks. Same as if I was buying a toaster.

You ask for my drivers license, CHP, SS number, library card, even my name, you get to keep the gun, I keep my money. I don't need what you're selling that bad. The choice is yours.

I will not ask for or even look at, any of the above if I'm selling.

 

[Grog]

I also avoid any for sale items where the seller asks to see a permit. Sorry, you don't need a permit to buy in FL. Demanding one before a sale makes you a anti-gun hack IMO, and I'd rather not do business with you.

I offer a discount for someone with LE, CHL or Security ID. That way I have a better chance of them not being a criminal. I only ask to see ID so I know someone is a resident of my state.

 

[Andy Griffith]

If you are selling or trading a gun, you are going backwards.

There is never a good reason to ever let one go.

 

[ladder13]

I buy all the cheap guns I can find, drive over to the "questionable" part of town, mark them up 500% and sell them out of my trunk. All the folks who buy them must be residents as they are there on the corner.

Just don't be "an anti-gun hack"

 

[redlevel]

Demanding one before a sale makes you a anti-gun hack IMO, and I'd rather not do business with you.

I wouldn't go quite that far. I would say, maybe just a little paranoid, and probably not cognizant of state law.

 

[Rule3]

Just don't be "an anti-gun hack"

Home of Windshield pricing, no Haggle here!

All High Points $495.00 cash only.

Ask about our

Taurus with Gold trim !

 

[Andy Griffith]

I wouldn't go quite that far. I would say, maybe just a little paranoid, and probably not cognizant of state law.

If I were to sell one, it's going through a dealer- I'm not going sell one even to family without so doing. I'm extra paranoid.

Buying however, is a different matter.