Pretty interesting topic. The last war with Mexico,1846 termed intervención estadounidense en México, was over land. Because of it we pretty much gained the southwest and most of the west coast...granted that was during the 19th Century and people were of a different mindset then, but the point is that it wouldn't be the first time we as a nation have invaded south...are the problems caused by the cartels a national security risk? You bet. But you aren't going to have an official here in the "beltway" ever say we need to invade another sovereign nation...ten years of war have done nothing to change the mindset of politicians...there isn't anything lucrative enough to be gained (either fiscally or politically) to warrant military interdiction. As for the legalization of controlled substances...well as mentioned earlier by others, prohibition didn't stop alcohol use but it did provide a very lucrative few years for the bootleggers...but in the end when the Volstead Act was repealed, criminals moved on to other things...just me, stay safe
Thoughts on Mexico
- Thread starter geoff40
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That's why I call for the troops to enforce the existing laws because I totally agree with you - too many "feel good" laws get passed with no thought to enforcement.
Dunno about legalizing it all. I'm not convinced that the casual user needs or wants more than pot. I gave it up in '82 but know scads of professionals who still smoke. And besides, it's been "decriminalized" in most states to the point that it's cheaper to get caught with a few joints than to get caught without your seatbelt.
Good conversation ...
raven818
Member
Drug money comes into the U.S..It's washed clean and redistributed. As long as the cleaned up money can buy politicians, drugs will never be deregulated or legalized...period.
JayBird686
Member
I live 40 miles from the US-Mexico border, just north of El Paso. I think its gonna take spillover from the Juarez side to the El Paso side to get people motivated. There are small instances of violence on the US side, but its gonna have to be something like what happened in Miami in the late 70s to really catch the nations attention. Shoot outs in Mall parking lots and what not.
10 or so years ago, when I was a dumbass college student, I would go to Juarez on thursday nights for drink and drowned, but now, I dont even like going to downtown El Paso if I can help it! Too much stuff is liable to go wrong nowadays.
The US is unfortunately a pretty good part of the problem. We are the consumer of the drugs, so if there is a market, there is going to be bloodshed.
I can see why people would try and come over, legally or otherwise; its not a safe place to live. Most of the illegal traffic, do work no one wants to do. Not many Americans would work in an onion field in 110 degree Arizona weather. Its not like we are having a surge in illegal doctors or lawyers wanting to take away jobs.
An area gun store just got busted for selling ammo across the border, I would say guns are going south, not north.
10 or so years ago, when I was a dumbass college student, I would go to Juarez on thursday nights for drink and drowned, but now, I dont even like going to downtown El Paso if I can help it! Too much stuff is liable to go wrong nowadays.
The US is unfortunately a pretty good part of the problem. We are the consumer of the drugs, so if there is a market, there is going to be bloodshed.
I can see why people would try and come over, legally or otherwise; its not a safe place to live. Most of the illegal traffic, do work no one wants to do. Not many Americans would work in an onion field in 110 degree Arizona weather. Its not like we are having a surge in illegal doctors or lawyers wanting to take away jobs.
An area gun store just got busted for selling ammo across the border, I would say guns are going south, not north.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Over 40,000 people have been murdered in the last 4 years. Thats getting close to what we lost in korea. If not already, soon the cartels are or will be running the goverment. Entire police departments have quit. I doubt if all the past maffia killings was even a 1/10 of that put together through out history! No doubt MJ is a part of it however small, but I bet the majority of the killings is statements over the hard stuff, coke and heroin. Legalise MJ and I doubt even a small percentage drop in killings would be noticed. No way can I buy legaliseing the hard stuff, and I dont belive that stuff to be less dangerous than a drunk driveing!
I have mixed feelings on the illegals. On one hand I belive I would be trying to swim the river if I was born there. The poverty, danger etc is big reasons to leave. Still even though I sympathise with them I would still deport every one of them if I had the power.
This country has spread it`s self too thin over the globe and cant handle things at home. If we had cleaned up our own country we would be in posistion to clean up mexico and hand it back to them.
Were that done I belive the majority of illegals and maybe secound and third generations of legals would fight to get back to their homeland under their own power if they had a chance at a good life there.
I have mixed feelings on the illegals. On one hand I belive I would be trying to swim the river if I was born there. The poverty, danger etc is big reasons to leave. Still even though I sympathise with them I would still deport every one of them if I had the power.
This country has spread it`s self too thin over the globe and cant handle things at home. If we had cleaned up our own country we would be in posistion to clean up mexico and hand it back to them.
Were that done I belive the majority of illegals and maybe secound and third generations of legals would fight to get back to their homeland under their own power if they had a chance at a good life there.
The first week long LE School I attended at after Basic Police at the Treasury Academy was taught by the SAC of the BNDD in Dallas.
He said the drug war would never be won as long as Major World and US Banks were making large loans to South and Central American Countries. He said that the major cash crop of these countries was Drugs or the things to make Drugs from. He said that if the Drugs were stopped these countries would fold like a cheap deck of cards and the folks who run the Government and the Major Banks were not going to let that happen. A very astute man. He looked like he was a Major Actor on the Sopranos or ran a Family of La Cosa Nostra.
Swell guy and funny as all get out.
Rule 303
He said the drug war would never be won as long as Major World and US Banks were making large loans to South and Central American Countries. He said that the major cash crop of these countries was Drugs or the things to make Drugs from. He said that if the Drugs were stopped these countries would fold like a cheap deck of cards and the folks who run the Government and the Major Banks were not going to let that happen. A very astute man. He looked like he was a Major Actor on the Sopranos or ran a Family of La Cosa Nostra.
Swell guy and funny as all get out.
Rule 303
Bicky Robby
Member
I would like our government to do their job by protecting our southern border and let Mexico deal with Mexico. I am tired of sending family, friends and neighbors serving in the military around the world to fix corrupt governments.
HOUSTON RICK
Member
This had gone on since before the days of Pancho Villa. Mexico has been ruled by bandito warlords since Montezuma fell. Mexicans have largely learned to live with it. Now we have a media that is compensated by 24 hour advertising for bringing us every grim detail. The only thing restraining the narco warlords is the fear of the US military. They operate in the US selling drugs and killing their rivals, but so far on this side of the border they have largely spared civilians. If that changes, then so will US policy.
I have heard somewhere that the many Mexican restaurants in the U.S. are also laundries.
There are laws to prevent U.S. troops from actively manning the border. I am not a fan of the military enforcing laws. The military and federal police have different training and missions. The problem also, again, boils down to political will. There has always been a political tolerance for a certain amount of illegal aliens. When the economy is bad, folks want strict enforcement. When times are good, folks could care less. If I were Mexican and needed to provide for my family, I may very well swim the river and look for work. That being said, we need to put the needs of our country first and defend our way of life.
As there is a demand for illegal drugs, there will always be a supply. I've heard the arguments about how many folks use illegal drugs. Fortunately dopers are still in the minority. I believe in zero tolerance for illegal drug use, as long as drugs are illegal. It leads to low productivity, dangerous driving and family problems. I think employers should take a hard stand against employees who are using. I saw recently where quite a few were busted at Boeing.
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feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I really belive the biggest reason the imigration laws arent enforced is the fact that it`s a huge voteing factor for legal mexican americans. I am sure very many legal mexicans sympthasize with the illegals. Their votes will decide elections. On top of that the world would have a field day if we had daily trainloads deporting them. We unfairly would instantly be compared to nazi germany sending jews to the death camps.
With our politicans ***** footing around it is going to ruin this country, hell, it already has! I never have been able to figure just at what distance north from the border a illegal is considered safe. If the BP collars one swimming the river sure, they will send them back to try again tonight untill they make it. Yet if somehow one is discovered over a hundred miles north or so they get to stay here. I wish someone in the know would tell us whats really happening and what the real rules are!
With our politicans ***** footing around it is going to ruin this country, hell, it already has! I never have been able to figure just at what distance north from the border a illegal is considered safe. If the BP collars one swimming the river sure, they will send them back to try again tonight untill they make it. Yet if somehow one is discovered over a hundred miles north or so they get to stay here. I wish someone in the know would tell us whats really happening and what the real rules are!
I would suggest a couple of things here.
Number one, seal the border. Seal it tight. NO ONE gets in without proper ID. Yes, some of the people that come in just want to work and live here, enjoying our benefits, and they have a lot of sympathy, particularly in the Hispanic community. BUT by the same token, drug mules, hardened criminals and potential terrorists all come across by the same routes. Sorting them out is nearly impossible, and the only solution is to stop them all. Finding out that some are lawbreakers and deporting them later only affects those that are caught - everyone else gets off scott free, under current administration policy. This is unacceptable.
Number two. Enter into an agreement with the Mexican government to allow Predator aircraft across the border, both armed with Hellfire missiles and unarmed for surveillance. Ramp up human intelligence on the whereabouts of the drug kingpins. It's probably well known where they are now. Monitor them with the eye in the sky. Once it's confirmed where they are, take them out mercilessly. Yes, there will be some "collateral damage" with the families of the drug lords, and probably a few innocents, but that would be far better than the thousands that are being slaughtered today. If war is hell, then so be it - it should be a two-way street. The drug lords need to have the war brought to them surely and brutally. Stamp them out like cockroaches. And we need some politicians here with the juevos to carry it out.
John
Number one, seal the border. Seal it tight. NO ONE gets in without proper ID. Yes, some of the people that come in just want to work and live here, enjoying our benefits, and they have a lot of sympathy, particularly in the Hispanic community. BUT by the same token, drug mules, hardened criminals and potential terrorists all come across by the same routes. Sorting them out is nearly impossible, and the only solution is to stop them all. Finding out that some are lawbreakers and deporting them later only affects those that are caught - everyone else gets off scott free, under current administration policy. This is unacceptable.
Number two. Enter into an agreement with the Mexican government to allow Predator aircraft across the border, both armed with Hellfire missiles and unarmed for surveillance. Ramp up human intelligence on the whereabouts of the drug kingpins. It's probably well known where they are now. Monitor them with the eye in the sky. Once it's confirmed where they are, take them out mercilessly. Yes, there will be some "collateral damage" with the families of the drug lords, and probably a few innocents, but that would be far better than the thousands that are being slaughtered today. If war is hell, then so be it - it should be a two-way street. The drug lords need to have the war brought to them surely and brutally. Stamp them out like cockroaches. And we need some politicians here with the juevos to carry it out.
John
Armyphotog
Member
Hmmmmm, aren't they killing themselves. Oh, you must mean not fast enough.
As for this hate Mexican thing, I don't blame them for wanting to get out of their country. The USA must seem like a beacon of hope to most of them, and they come to work, on top of that. Our state just passed one of those imigration law deals, and the farmers are already up in arms saying their crops will rot in the fields for lack of farm hands.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
When I was a kid in the 40`s and 50`s I lived in wisconsin in the bullseye of truck farms. The brazero program was in full swing. Here it is discribed: Another phase with Mexican immigration began with the Brazero Program (Mexico Contract Laborer's). The original plan of this program was to form an agreement between Mexico and the United States in which Mexican workers would be sent to places in the United States that needed agricultural labor. Unfortunately, with this system, only a certain number of immigrants were allowed into the U.S. Tensions between the United States and Mexico began to grow due to this new policy. Many Mexicans were attempting to enter the United States, leaving Mexico in a state of minor chaos. From 1949-1959, the Brazeros increased from 8,500 to 84,000. Finally, opposition from groups such as farm worker's unions, and the Kennedy administration forced the program to close in 1964.
It seemed to work back then, why dont they implement it now?
It seemed to work back then, why dont they implement it now?
The same can be said for alcoholism. Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that the 6-pack-a-day guy is just as dangerous.
One thing to consider before getting all excited about sealing the border: it can just as easily be used to keep you in as others out.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I dont have the money or a big desire to go anywhere else.
Etemmu
Member
Hopefully the Gov't will take care of this problem right after it fixes the economy
The problem could be reduced dramatically without our politicians polluting the scene any further. I have a couple ideas that might work, but if I put them in writing I may incriminate myself and I wouldn't want to do that now...
The problem could be reduced dramatically without our politicians polluting the scene any further. I have a couple ideas that might work, but if I put them in writing I may incriminate myself and I wouldn't want to do that now...
Gun-runner
Member
My thoughts.... Nothing a good year long saturation bombing would'nt fix.
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