Concealed carry at church?

[walnutred]

it must be terrible to not feel safe in church. without getting all religious, what greater safety than God's house?

very, very sad.

robert w.

I consider the whole universe "Gods House". In my opinion churches or any other place of worship were created for people, not God. Where ever people are they bring their baggage so I don't feel much safer in a church than most other places I visit. However I tend to avoid places considered "dangerous". I wonder how safe those Amish kids felt in their schoolhouse a couple years ago, or the kids at Columbine, or the customers buying gas at the station that was robbed last night.

 

[BaldEagle1313]

This is one of the things I like about this forum. It brings up things I'd never considered. Makes me think.

Church is five minutes away; two minutes if the lights are all green. I go straight there, then straight back home to change into casual clothes before I go anywhere else. Until now I'd never, not once, considered carrying inside my place of worship, and I couldn't tell you if there was a sign on the door saying no guns because I've never looked for one. I can't say "I didn't see a reason to carry" because that would mean I'd actually thought about it. It's like there was a wall of denial in my brain that shorted out any consideration of it. It isn't a "huggy" church - a good, firm handshake will suffice for greetings, so there would be no concern about someone feeling it from a hug. There's no collection plate passed around so there isn't any cash out in the open. It's hard to put into words. Unlike every other day of the week, on Sunday when I dress for church, a gun was never part of any thought process. It would be simple to do; a well-tailored suit can cover almost anything you would want to carry.

I don't know if that makes me more of sheep than I thought I was, or if it's just a matter of having blinders on in this particular instance. Neither scenario is very comforting.

 

[WoodsCustom]

So how does your church, synagogue, mosque or other place of worship handle CCW?

I asked my preacher years ago about CCW in Church. He pulled back his suit coat, exposed a Glock 17 and said, "I am totally for CCW and carry myself, the more the better. I expect you to carry every Sunday."

And there you go.

WC

 

[CelticSire]

it must be terrible to not feel safe in church. without getting all religious, what greater safety than God's house?

very, very sad.

robert w.

You're right, it is terrible. Unfortunately, it is also reality.

February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men
walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened
fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir
was replaced by frightened screams. The two victims, a 14-
year-old boy and a 19-year-old man, were hospitalized.

March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe
Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church,
and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several
church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to
capture after the attack, The suspect also had stabbed
himself, but survived, when his gun jams.

July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire
in a church during a youth performance, killing two people
and injuring seven.

Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five
wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary
school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado
Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a
guard.

May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police
and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a
Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one
police officer.

Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational
Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the
pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.

May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of
Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who
were shot were members of Erica Bell's family; she was
abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell's mother, church
pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell,
25, was the shooter.

Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary
Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who
reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend,
later killed himself.

April 9, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - A 27-year-old
airman died after being shot at a church, where he had once
worked as a security guard.

March 12, 2005 - Brookfield, Wisconsin - Living Church of
God - 7 killed + shooter - Terry Ratzmann opened fire on
the congregation, killing seven and wounding four before
taking his own life.

July 30, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - World Changers
Church International - shooter killed - Air Force Staff
Sgt. John Givens was shot five times by a police officer
after charging the officer, following violent behavior.

Dec. 17, 2004, Garden Grove, Calif.: A veteran musician at
the Crystal Cathedral shoots himself to death after a nine
-hour standoff.

Oct. 5, 2003 - Atlanta, Georgia - Turner Monumental AME
Church - 2 killed + shooter - Shelia Wilson walked into the
church while preparations are being made for service and
shot the pastor, her mother and then herself.

June 10, 2002 - Conception, Missouri - Benedictine
monastery - 2 killed + shooter - Lloyd Robert Jeffress shot
four monks in the monastery killing two and wounding two,
before killing himself.

March 12, 2002 - Lynbrook, New York - Our Lady of Peace
Catholic Church - 2 killed - Peter Troy, a former mental
patient, opens fire during Mass, killing the priest and a
parishioner. He later receives a life sentence.

May 18, 2001 - Hopkinsville, Kentucky - Greater Oak
Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed - Frederick Radford
stood up in the middle of a revival service and began
shooting at his estranged wife, Nicole Radford, killing her
and a woman trying to help her.

Sept. 15, 1999 - Fort Worth, Texas - Wedgewood Baptist
Church - 7 killed + shooter - Larry Gene Ashbrook shot dead
seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by
Christian rock group Forty Days in Fort Worth, Texas before
killing himself.

April 15, 1999 - Salt Lake City, Utah - LDS Church Family
History Library - 2 killed + shooter - Sergei Babarin, 70,
with a history of mental illness, entered the library,
killed two people and wounded four others before he was
gunned down by police.

 

[BaldEagle1313]

You're right, it is terrible. Unfortunately, it is also reality.

April 15, 1999 - Salt Lake City, Utah - LDS Church Family
History Library - 2 killed + shooter - Sergei Babarin, 70,
with a history of mental illness, entered the library,
killed two people and wounded four others before he was
gunned down by police.

I remember this one. Scared me to death. My mom is big on genealogy, and at that time my she was volunteering at the Family History Library as a French translator. Turned out she wasn't on site - she was next door in the history museum that day. Looking back it's odd that that incident still didn't whap me upside the head about maybe carrying into church.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Conceraled Carry in Church? Of Course!

 

[longranger]

Wyoming we need the permission of Clergy in charge of the facility.

 

[Erich]

I absolutely carry concealed at church. Which led to an amusing moment one time that I unfortunately can only share with Knights of Columbus of the third degree . . . .

 

[Whaler64]

I go to a small church with about 35 regulars. Most know what I do for work, and some know that I always carry. I always sit in the back, against a wall, with a clear view of the side entrance door. I've had a few people ask me why I always sit there. I answer "it gives me an unobstructed view of the entrance". One guy, who knows I carry says "Oh, that makes sense". Another one, who may or may not have known I carry, looked at me like I was nuts.

 

[Xfuzz]

I attend a small Texas church.
When we stand to sing or pray and everyone sits down
it sounds like someone is playin the bongo drums with the barrels
and stocks hittin the pews.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

listen to the music...

...it sounds like someone is playin the bongo drums with the barrels
and stocks hittin the pews.

I bet that's some pretty music! My pastor and his wife are both strapped during church...and more than a few guys in the congregation. Figure I might as well be too since I usually am anyways. No need to down-dress for church.

 

[P&R Fan]

I've been enjoying these posts and resisted saying anything because only my Wife, my Pastor and his Wife and one board member know I carry. But since nobody knows who or where I am, I'll tell my story.
I have had a permit since I was 20 (I'm 46 now). I used to occasionally carry at church because we had had some people making disturbances that had to be "removed". 9/11 changed all that. Since then I ALWAYS carry in church. I never want to be at church or anywhere and be a helpless victim, and I won't.
There was one time I remember something happened, and I was not available. I am an usher, and one of the other ushers asked me to count the offering with him in a room downstairs during the service. He is a local Police Officer, and as we were walking down I jokingly said, "You just want me to come with you in case you get mugged". He said "Yeah, you're probably carrying anyway". And I said "If I was would that bother you?", and he replied "nope". Neither of us said another word about it. He didn't ask, I didn't tell. When we were done we went back up and found out somebody had been making disturbances in the service and had to be removed. The Cop and the armed Security Specialist/ Private Investigator were in the basement during the one time our services and experience were most needed. I don't count offerings anymore.
Some people have mentioned having a "huggy" church, and I understand their concern, as mine is too. There are several Women who I can always count on to get a hug from. (All old enough to be my Mother, so I get away with it). I have found the holster that is perfect for this environment. It's the Kramer Confidant shirt holster. It will hold a J-Frame or any size Glock in total comfort. In fact I literally forget I have it on. It has a pouch under each arm, so the off side can carry a spare mag, which it does when I carry the Glock 23 or 27. That is, except at church, then I carry a spare in my coat pocket. When I see a hug coming I leave my left arm down at my side. The Lady just raises her right arm over my shoulder and completes the hug. I have never had anybody feel the Glock. I leave a button unbuttoned under my tie and can access the gun through there. If I am not wearing a suit and tie (which means I'm NOT at church, I'm VERY old fashioned) I can access it from the top of the shirt. I leave the top two buttons open on a button up shirt or a polo. If you haven't tried this holster you really should. It is comfortable, and it works. I never have to be unarmed, at Gods house or anywhere else.
Oh, one more thing, me and God are tight. He approves.
Now, keep my secret, OK?
Jim

 

[Cocked & Locked]

mum is the word Jim

 

[P&R Fan]

Thanks, I knew I could count on you folks.
Jim

 

[Reloader]

Asked by my pastor if his sermons had anything to do with my carrying in church..I said, Yes; Don't make the sermons so long...LOL!

 

[Bassleg]

Every time I go to church I always take my SR9C for the same reason that I carry a spare tire for my truck.

 

[NE450No2]

Why do you carry concealed???

Could it be simply defined, to protect yourself, your loved ones, and your property from harm, by Evil People???

Do you think that when you are in Church, that you are SAFE from Evil People???

Is there ANYPLACE on the PLANET that you are SAFE from Evil People???

 

[oldman45]

In Louisiana, if one desires to carry in a church, he must first get a CCW, then he must get written approval from the pastor and after all that, he has to attend several hours of additional training to legally do so.

 

[Faulkner]

I'm impressed that this many people on the forum even go to church!

 

[LennyLames]

Seriously, if Mahmoud Osama Abdullah wants to send a message and, at the same time, wipe out a whole bunch of christian infidels, a church would be the place to do it.

There's a really nice older gentleman at my church that I've made out as a CCW person. He appears to carry a full-sized weapon, but I haven't discussed it with him. He sits at the back, opposite from the only entrance (side entrance) so I'm sure he can monitor it with his peripheral vision. I consider him the first line of defense.

I've envisioned someone screaming "allahu akbar" meaning (their) "god is great," followed by the sounds of gunfire and screaming. First move is to get the family down on the floor, then I'd move away from them, in case I have to engage. I haven't really decided whether I should join the fray right away, or stay in hiding, waiting as the sounds of gunfire draw near, waiting for a better opportunity to engage. Therein lies a moral dilemma. Should I just protect the family, or everyone else? One of my CCW permit instructors had this policy: "If it ain't kin, I ain't in."

If it's a huge suicide bomb detonation, all bets are off.